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Most think founders wanted Christian USA

Zguy28

By Zguy28
in The Tailgate

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Zguy28

Zguy28

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Most think founders wanted Christian USA

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2007-09-11-amendment_N.htm?csp=34

By Andrea Stone, USA TODAY

Most Americans believe the nation's founders wrote Christianity into the Constitution, and people are less likely to say freedom to worship covers religious groups they consider extreme, a poll out today finds.

The survey measuring attitudes toward freedom of religion, speech and the press found that 55% believe erroneously that the Constitution establishes a Christian nation. In the survey, which is conducted annually by the First Amendment Center, a non-partisan educational group, three out of four people who identify themselves as evangelical or Republican believe that the Constitution establishes a Christian nation. About half of Democrats and independents do.

ON THE WEB: Read the full poll results

Most respondents, 58%, say teachers in public schools should be allowed to lead prayers. That is an increase from 2005, when 52% supported teacher-led prayer in public schools.

More people, 43%, say public schools should be allowed to put on Nativity re-enactments with Christian music than in 2005, when 36% did.

Half say teachers should be allowed to use the Bible as a factual text in history class. That's down from 56% in 2000. Charles Haynes, a senior scholar at the First Amendment Center, says the findings are particularly troubling during a week when the top diplomat in Iraq gave a report to Congress on progress toward achieving democracy there. "Americans are dying to create a secular democracy in Iraq, and simultaneously a growing number of people want to see a Christian state" here, he says.

Haynes says the Constitution "clearly established a secular nation where people of all faiths or no faith are protected to practice their religion or no religion without governmental interference."

Rick Green of WallBuilders, an advocacy group that believes the nation was built on Christian principles, says the poll doesn't mean a majority favors a "theocracy" but that the Constitution reflects Christian values, including religious freedom. "I would call it a Christian document, just like the Declaration of Independence," he says.

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Bang

Bang

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Well, I also think that they made provisions for those who are not Christian by guaranteeing freedom to worship in your own way.

I really doubt they could foresee the world of today. Nothing they had experienced or had historical knowledge of could have prepared them for the modern world.

In my honest opinion, I think the founders wanted a country where people could peacefully co-exist, regardless of their differences.

AND, I think that if given an opportunity to see how Americans since their time have tried our best to embrace that, they'd find we've done a pretty good job.

We're not perfect, but we try.

~Bang

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Corcaigh

Corcaigh

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Rick Green of WallBuilders, an advocacy group that believes the nation was built on Christian principles, says the poll doesn't mean a majority favors a "theocracy" but that the Constitution reflects Christian values, including religious freedom. "I would call it a Christian document, just like the Declaration of Independence," he says.

I'm not surprised a majority believe stuff like this. But the Cowboys are America's Team, so America is dumb in some respects. :D

How is religious freedom a Christian value ... only if freedom to choose damnation is what you mean? ;)

And I'd argue that the nation was built on sound principles based on the founders looking at much of human history, many of these principles are also shared by the Christian religion but are certainly not exclusive to it. :)

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Koolblue13

Koolblue13

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To be perfectly honest, I believe that the Founders did not follow Christian principles by breaking away from England. If anything, I believe they followed materialistic principles.
Some maybe, but not most. Atleast in the begining, anyways. I don't think the Quakers are known for thier greedy ways.
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Zguy28

Zguy28

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Thats it and that is also why we have the problems we have in this country and can't solve them. 60 percent dumbasses in a democracy we are doomed to crumble from within

I know. Public schools doing a bangup job aren't they?

What was most interesting is this:

In the survey, which is conducted annually by the First Amendment Center, a non-partisan educational group, three out of four people who identify themselves as evangelical or Republican believe that the Constitution establishes a Christian nation. About half of Democrats and independents do.
I wasn't surprised about the GOP since it has sucked in most of the evangelicals.
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skinsfan51

skinsfan51

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And I'd argue that the nation was built on sound principles based on the founders looking at much of human history, many of these principles are also shared by the Christian religion but are certainly not exclusive to it. :)

Now who's making stuff up based on what they want to believe? :doh: Corcaigh, the very words and writings of our Founders are available to study. The principles they founded this nation on primarily came from the Bible, and certainly those principles are not being adhered to today, and we are seeing the fruit of it, as you pointed out in the other thread on prophecy (murder, abortion, etc.).

Go and see how much of Christianity is laced all throughout early America. From a church being one of the first buildings erected in any town (showing how important it was considered) to the schoolbooks ("Primers") used to teach the children, Christianity completely and totally saturated early America, and it's influence is still seen today, as this article demonstrates.

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Corcaigh

Corcaigh

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Now who's making stuff up based on what they want to believe? :doh: Corcaigh, the very words and writings of our Founders are available to study. The principles they founded this nation on primarily came from the Bible, and certainly those principles are not being adhered to today, and we are seeing the fruit of it, as you pointed out in the other thread on prophecy (murder, abortion, etc.).

Go and see how much of Christianity is laced all throughout early America. From a church being one of the first buildings erected in any town (showing how important it was considered) to the schoolbooks ("Primers") used to teach the children, Christianity completely and totally saturated early America, and it's influence is still seen today, as this article demonstrates.

The founders were very clear about freedom for people to practice their faith, and a number of those were Christians of one type of another, but they were firm in their desire to create a secular government as they had seen the influence of organized religion on European governments and wanted to avoid this at all cost.

Henry said it right - a nation of Christians is not the same as a Christian nation (unless the Christians are politically-minded evangelicals :)). The founders were not all Christians and certainly not evangelicals of your color, and their quotes on the dangers of state-sponsored organized religion are well known.

Here's just a few:

Jefferson: he described the Revelation of St John as the "ravings of a maniac". He also wrote that the virgin birth would be "classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter."

Ethan Allen: "That Jesus Christ was not God is evidence from his own words."

James Madison: "Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise." "During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What have been its fruits? More or less in all places, pride and indolence in the Clergy, ignorance and servility in the laity, in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution."

Adams as president signed the Treaty of Peace and Friendship which had been ratified by the Senate, which states in Article XI that "the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion."

Hardly evidence of the Christian nation you are claiming.

I wonder if such an article would be signed today?

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Destino

Destino

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"most" Let's think about what this means in terms of population and their opinions. Most people means either all the "average" people and either the "below average" or the "above average". Which combination do you think makes up the "most" in this case?

Many are those that actually believe what the rabid Christian movement is saying. It's disturbing to me how dishonest the Christian movement has become in the US once it mixed with politics. I listen to it on the radio and sometimes can't even identify those representing it as Christians. I turn WAVA on in the mornings and all I hear is support for war against muslims and support for republicans. I don't think I've heard the words Pride, Greed, Wrath, Envy, or Gluttony in the last two months. Lust they have covered and sloth is how the describe anyone that needs any help ... heaven forbid.

I'm Christian BTW.

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Zguy28

Zguy28

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"most" Let's think about what this means in terms of population and their opinions. Most people means either all the "average" people and either the "below average" or the "above average". Which combination do you think makes up the "most" in this case?

Many are those that actually believe what the rabid Christian movement is saying. It's disturbing to me how dishonest the Christian movement has become in the US once it mixed with politics. I listen to it on the radio and sometimes can't even identify those representing it as Christians. I turn WAVA on in the mornings and all I hear is support for war against muslims and support for republicans. I don't think I've heard the words Pride, Greed, Wrath, Envy, or Gluttony in the last two months. Lust they have covered and sloth is how the describe anyone that needs any help ... heaven forbid.

I'm Christian BTW.

I think you are mistaken. That's the stuff on WAVA in the afternoon from 3-6. I can't stand "Janet Parshall's America". She thinks the GOP is synonymous with Christianity. How wrong she is.

One thing that I like about branches of Christianity that came from the Anabaptist movement is our support of separation of church and state. Unfortunately, many of my Baptist brethren have fallen from that view.

It troubles me when President Bush talks about "Faith-Based" initiatives and funding from the government.

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