hokie4redskins Posted August 16, 2007 Share Posted August 16, 2007 Ahhh... the high, mighty religious point of view. If an atheist is wrong, he goes to hell. Personally, I think God wouldn't give a flying **** whether you believe in him or not as long as you're a good person and treat others with kindness and respect. Also, your comment would be more accurate to say: "All people who don't believe in the exact same religion as me better bet right..." Because, if you're Christian, don't you believe ALL non-Christians are going to burn? This has nothing to do with religion, it has everything to do with faith. Muslim, Jew, Christian, Hindu, whatever. I don't give a flock. I certainly don't claim to know how God will judge us. To dismiss the existence of God, however, is to throw all the gifts He's given back in his face. How He judges us for it is up to Him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldskool Posted August 16, 2007 Share Posted August 16, 2007 Because, if you're Christian, don't you believe ALL non-Christians are going to burn? Anyone who has true faith in the religion knows that it is not the place of the believer to pass judgment and condemn someone for what they do and do not believe. Its the fail-ability of the flesh and the human condition that brings about stupidity like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldskool Posted August 16, 2007 Share Posted August 16, 2007 As for the article, I would dare say that the vast majority of people who are right of center and who have strong religious faith are not the people that the author of this article goes after; rather they are a small sub-sect of the whole that are easy targets. To broad brush them all into this category is logically false and irresponsible journalism at best. This would be the equivalent of claiming that all people who are left of center and atheists are soulless, morally vacant, have a superiority complex and are communists at heart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbear Posted August 16, 2007 Share Posted August 16, 2007 OK, maybe I'm alone, but I didn't see anything in the article I haven't thought. We have made thinking into a passtime in which we no longer engage. Seriously, I asked before we went in to Iraq qhat the end game would be. How many times did we have posts on these very boards about how we would find the WMD "within the next few months." People believed because it's what they kept hearing. As a people, we've stopped questionning and testing that which we take to be true. If it's said often enough... The bit about hte war paying for itself or the reconstruction coming from oil money or ... Heck, I had a debate on the laffer curve with a statistician the other day...he didn't believe me about the impact of lowering tax rates on the amount of tax revenue till I showed him the IRS numbers (note our revenue went down and the growth for this 6 year span = not good especially for a non recession economy). He didn't believe it because that's not what he is being told... :doh: We are becoming the "take it on faith" society. Looking back, I think the greatest favor my parents ever did was to encourage me to question every position though it must have driven them mad at times as I questioned them. Saddly, I do find myself occassionaly thinking of the quote "nobody looks smart argueing with a fool" and lamenting that now people believe the fools because they're the only ones being heard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rincewind Posted August 16, 2007 Share Posted August 16, 2007 Anyone who has true faith in the religion knows that it is not the place of the believer to pass judgment and condemn someone for what they do and do not believe. Its the fail-ability of the flesh and the human condition that brings about stupidity like this. ...... When you're lying on your death bed, contemplating your own fleeting life and what's to come, you atheists better be right. :paranoid: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry Posted August 16, 2007 Share Posted August 16, 2007 As for the article, I would dare say that the vast majority of people who are right of center and who have strong religious faith are not the people that the author of this article goes after; rather they are a small sub-sect of the whole that are easy targets.To broad brush them all into this category is logically false and irresponsible journalism at best. This would be the equivalent of claiming that all people who are left of center and atheists are soulless, morally vacant, have a superiority complex and are communists at heart. Very well put. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted August 16, 2007 Share Posted August 16, 2007 How He judges us for it is up to Him. Unless, of course the person is athiest like Bang, and then you are 100% sure that you can state he will go to hell, and God's judgement is irrelevant because you know what He is going to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldskool Posted August 16, 2007 Share Posted August 16, 2007 ......:paranoid: Think about it this way, there is no harm done if you die and there is no greater power(s) out there who will judge you. You simply will cease to exist. On the other hand if the opposite is true, then I believe this is what hokie4redskins is saying. Again, not the place for people to pass judgment. Do what you do, im not going to drive a steak into you for what you believe or don't believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsHokieFan Posted August 16, 2007 Share Posted August 16, 2007 If there is one thing I hate more then the militant mullahs are the militant atheists, and people who call those who believe "idiots" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rincewind Posted August 16, 2007 Share Posted August 16, 2007 Think about it this way, there is no harm done if you die and there is no greater power(s) out there who will judge you. You simply will cease to exist.On the other hand if the opposite is true, then I believe this is what hokie4redskins is saying. Again, not the place for people to pass judgment. Do what you do, im not going to drive a steak into you for what you believe or don't believe. But you're saying how he should judge. You're both saying that atheist are going to be judged harshly. Why? Like bang said - if God cares whether or not I believe in him even though I've lead a good life, he seems insecure and petty. For the record - I'm agnostic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry Posted August 16, 2007 Share Posted August 16, 2007 Think about it this way, there is no harm done if you die and there is no greater power(s) out there who will judge you. You simply will cease to exist.On the other hand if the opposite is true, then I believe this is what hokie4redskins is saying. Again, not the place for people to pass judgment. Do what you do, im not going to drive a steak into you for what you believe or don't believe. Are we going to use this logic for Global Warming? What if we ignore it and it's actually been a reality this whole time? Global Warming deniers had better be right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hokie4redskins Posted August 16, 2007 Share Posted August 16, 2007 Think about it this way, there is no harm done if you die and there is no greater power(s) out there who will judge you. You simply will cease to exist.On the other hand if the opposite is true, then I believe this is what hokie4redskins is saying. Again, not the place for people to pass judgment. Do what you do, im not going to drive a steak into you for what you believe or don't believe. Well said, all around. Oldskool wins this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
portisizzle Posted August 16, 2007 Share Posted August 16, 2007 I was going to post this in a thread all its own but chose not to debate this for the 57th...no...the 58th time. That was until I saw Karl Crome's post..... http://www.huffingtonpost.com/sam-harris/science-must-destroy-reli_b_13153.html Most people believe that the Creator of the universe wrote (or dictated) one of their books. Unfortunately, there are many books that pretend to divine authorship, and each makes incompatible claims about how we all must live. Despite the ecumenical efforts of many well-intentioned people, these irreconcilable religious commitments still inspire an appalling amount of human conflict. Click link for more...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thiebear Posted August 16, 2007 Share Posted August 16, 2007 Idiot Americans? The title is misleading... As I'm sure every single country on the planet has a group that believes some wacky religion. As i'm sure reading/riting/rithmatic is higher in the US than 80% of the countries out there also. Science is wrong all the time, otherwise there would be nothing left to discover or do. Both require a bit of faith. ... Some of thier stuff is done from a position of what they want it to be and worked backwards from there. And some have to fall in the 80% right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
portisizzle Posted August 16, 2007 Share Posted August 16, 2007 Are we going to use this logic for Global Warming? What if we ignore it and it's actually been a reality this whole time?Global Warming deniers had better be right. I think what we are finding is that logic has not thus far been used in the global warming debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldskool Posted August 16, 2007 Share Posted August 16, 2007 Are we going to use this logic for Global Warming? What if we ignore it and it's actually been a reality this whole time?Global Warming deniers had better be right. What if the opposite is true? What if this is all cyclical and we've been blind to it the whole time and only now are able to see it? We are all better off getting off our high horses and realizing that what we "know" is really so little compared to the epic scale that is reality that none of us have a superior leg to stand on. If what you believe is getting you though the day, and isn't harming anyone, who gives a ****? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted August 16, 2007 Share Posted August 16, 2007 Think about it this way, there is no harm done if you die and there is no greater power(s) out there who will judge you. You simply will cease to exist.On the other hand if the opposite is true, then I believe this is what hokie4redskins is saying. Again, not the place for people to pass judgment. Do what you do, im not going to drive a steak into you for what you believe or don't believe. Except if youve worshiped God and Jesus your whole life and Allah is sitting their waiting for you. Or Vishnu. Or Zeus. Or any other God. Then youre ****ed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry Posted August 16, 2007 Share Posted August 16, 2007 I was going to post this in a thread all its own but chose not to debate this for the 57th...no...the 58th time. That was until I saw Karl Crome's post.....http://www.huffingtonpost.com/sam-harris/science-must-destroy-reli_b_13153.html A much better article than the one that started this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldskool Posted August 16, 2007 Share Posted August 16, 2007 Except if youve worshiped God and Jesus your whole life and Allah is sitting their waiting for you. Or Vishnu. Or Zeus. Or any other God. Then youre ****ed. C'est la Vie.. er I mean c'est la mort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
portisizzle Posted August 16, 2007 Share Posted August 16, 2007 A much better article than the one that started this thread. And it equally demonstrates the arrogance that defines most debates on this topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oriolesfan93p Posted August 16, 2007 Share Posted August 16, 2007 I love how things are started off with name calling, yeah that is the sign of a true intellectual......:doh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry Posted August 16, 2007 Share Posted August 16, 2007 What if the opposite is true? What if this is all cyclical and we've been blind to it the whole time and only now are able to see it? Then we've taken a few extra precautions, lived a cleaner life, and are probably better for it anyway. Kinda like going to church and being a good person for the world. I mean, if the 'what if you're wrong' argument is so strong in the battle to save my soul, why is it not strong when we are talking about saving the entire human race? We are all better off getting off our high horses and realizing that what we "know" is really so little compared to the epic scale that is reality that none of us have a superior leg to stand on.If what you believe is getting you though the day, and isn't harming anyone, who gives a ****? I totally, completely, and in all other ways agree. I was simply using my example to make that point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
portisizzle Posted August 16, 2007 Share Posted August 16, 2007 I liked this response to that article... Your view merely seems to confirm the opinion of most right wing evangelicals, that the left and evolution's goals are to destroy their religious beliefs. I do believe in the rights of our country. One is freedom of religion and freedom from religion. Your statements show advocating another type of religion called science. Gussied up with statements that everything can be proven and understood. It is true that as culture has progressed we have thrown off old ideas once certified by science as true with newer better ideas that may one day be discarded with newer better ideas. This is a principle of science and it is a good part. I can embrace this as part of the scientific method. When looking at the distructive effects of religion such as war, death and torture, only science has provided the tools to complete our distruction. The scenario you describe of nukes in the hands of reckless people is a vary valid one. It goes something like, if not this year, next year. If not next year then in 10 years. If not 10 years then 20 years. The point is that someday it will happen. The money available is too much and the passions are high. Our current policy of MAD (mutual assured distruction) will be useless, because if the attack is done by a small terrorist group, what country do we attack? Is a country of 5 million people responsible for what 100 people did if it was not sanctioned by the govenment? Religion may provide the flame to light the rockets, but science brought the technology to destroy on a massive scale. If you look at really nasty BIO weapons resolutions and deterents are even more problematic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan T. Posted August 16, 2007 Share Posted August 16, 2007 As an auxiliary member of the Tailgate Mafia, it's my duty to point out to Oldskool that usually a stake, not a steak, is driven through a person's heart. Though a nice fat T-bone would still probably do the trick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry Posted August 16, 2007 Share Posted August 16, 2007 And it equally demonstrates the arrogance that defines most debates on this topic. Sure, but at least it gets to the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.