WP: Iranian Unit to Be Labeled 'Terrorist'

[stevenaa]

You are correct, of course.

Again, I was only responding to the post that said "only an idiot" would oppose this. Non-idiots might think the timing was wrong or the internal political reaction in Iran would not be worth the benefit.

I see your point, and agree. It's hard to know one way or the other if the timing is bad.

[redman]

Well, there are other things going on that tend to complicate matters. Like invading the two countries on both sides of Iran. You may be right that diplomacy will not work under these circumstances.

Still I like to think there are more than those two options remaining.

Would this be a bad time to mention that progress has recently been made with North Korea after six years of hardline policies against them? Oh, and Libya too.

Sorry, I'll come back later with those.

[Mad Mike]

You are correct, of course.

Again, I was only responding to the post that said "only an idiot" would oppose this. Non-idiots might think the timing was wrong or the internal political reaction in Iran would not be worth the benefit.

Go back and look at the negative reactions on the first page. That's what I was refering to. But by all means... let's hear why the timing is wrong, or how the poitical reaction in Iran could be worse when they are already arming and training insurgents in Iraq.

[Predicto]

Go back and look at the negative reactions on the first page. That's what I was refering to. But by all means... let's hear why the timing is wrong, or how the poitical reaction in Iran could be worse when they are already arming and training insurgents in Iraq.

I'm not saying the timing is wrong. I don't know if it is.

I just don't like to rush to label people as idiots.

[Predicto]

That's true. It's always better to deal from a position of appeasement. That's worked well with the world's tyrants throughout history.

Not all diplomacy is appeasement.

Sometime tyrants are best brought down by collapse from within.

[Mad Mike]

I'm not saying the timing is wrong. I don't know if it is.

I just don't like to rush to label people as idiots.

Fair enough. I guess I'm not tolerant enough. :laugh:

But seriously, it's pretty hard to find anything wrong with this move. It brings much needed political pressure and attention to Iran's actions. It can hamper Iran's ability to export terror without firing a single shot by going after their finances. And if somewhere down the road it does become necessary for military action (I hope it does not come to that), it may make that job easier as well.

The fact is that we have tried everything else and Iran has thumbed it's nose at us. This is a very creative solution. Actually much more creative than I have come to expect from this administration, and I think that anyone who puts American interests above party politics should be able to see that.

[Predicto]

Fair enough. I guess I'm not tolerant enough. :laugh:

But seriously, it's pretty hard to find anything wrong with this move. It brings much needed political pressure and attention to Iran's actions. It can hamper Iran's ability to export terror without firing a single shot by going after their finances. And if somewhere down the road it does become necessary for military action (I hope it does not come to that), it may make that job easier as well.

The fact is that we have tried everything else and Iran has thumbed it's nose at us. This is a very creative solution. Actually much more creative than I have come to expect from this administration, and I think that anyone who puts American interests above party politics should be able to see that.

I tend to agree with you, to a degree. I do not think we have "tried everything else" by a long shot, but I do think that this move appears warranted.

[Koolblue13]

Does anybody actually think we will not go to war with Iran? Anybody?

[Sarge]

How about a cost/benefit analysis, full scale war in Iran with thousands more US casualties, major oil crisis, another trillion or so down the drain, a very unstable middle east, and further radicalizing the muslim population for the most part. Or keep status quo and keep trying to limit thier influece without going in and starting a major conflict that can be avoided.

I for one would rather avoid the consequences of choice one.

Don't be silly. We are not going to do "Iraq, Part II" in Iran. It'll be done from the air, with no boots on the ground unless Iran is stupid enough to attack into Iraq or Afghanistan

We'll hit their nuke facilities and their ONE oil refinery, along with select military targets.

That should be about the end of it

[Sarge]

Umm actually there are a lot of options on the table and they all don't have to do with bombing.

- Continue pressuring financial institutions and companies so that they do not do business with Iran.

Like the UN did with the Oil for Food thing in Iraq?

- Continue to increase our covert assets in country and network with those sympathetic to change.

We've been doing that for 20 years, waiting for the vaunted "Youth Movement" to get rid of the mullahs-

Continue to marginalize Iran and make them look like an out of control regime.

Like they already do, or do you want to make them look "even crazier"? Like they care

[Air Force Cane]

Time to start killing some of these murderous savages..

The foreign operations by the Guardians, which also encompass the activities of Hizballah and Islamic Jihad – are usually carried out through the Committee on Foreign Intelligence Abroad and the Committee on Implementation of Actions Abroad. As with agents of Ministry of Intelligence, Pasdaran personnel operate through front companies and non-governmental organizations, employees or officials of trading companies, banks, cultural centers or as representatives of the Foundation of the Oppressed and Dispossessed (Bonyade-e- Mostafazan), or the Martyrs Foundation.

The Qods (Jerusalem) Force of the Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps (IRGC) is responsible for extraterritorial operations, including terrorist operations. A primary focus for the Qods Force is training Islamic fundamentalist terrorist groups. Currently, the Qods Force conducts training activities in Iran and in Sudan. The Qods Force is also responsible for gathering information required for targeting and attack planning. The Pasdaran has contacts with underground movements in the Gulf region, and Pasdaran members are assigned to Iranian diplomatic missions, where, in the course of routine intelligence activities they monitor dissidents. Pasdaran influence has been particularly important in Kuwait, Bahrain, and the United Arab Emirates.

The largest branch of Pasdaran foreign operations consists of approximately 12,000 Arabic speaking Iranians, Afghans, Iraqis, Lebanese shi’ites and North Africans who trained in Iran or received training in Afghanistan during the Afghan war years. Presently these foreign operatives receive training in Iran, Sudan and Lebanon, and include the Hizballah ["Party of Allah"] intelligence, logistics and operational units in Lebanon [Hizballah is primarily a social and political rather than military organization]. The second largest Pasdaran foreign operations relates to the Kurds (particularly Iraqi Kurds), while the third largest relates to the Kashmiri’s, the Balouchi’s and the Afghans. The Pasdaran has also supported the establishment of Hizballah branches in Lebanon, Iraqi Kurdistan, Jordan and Palestine, and the Islamic Jihad in many other Moslem countries including Egypt, Turkey, Chechnya and in Caucasia. Hizballah has been implicated in the counterfeiting of U.S. dollars and European currencies, both to finance its operations and to disrupt Western economies by impairing international trade and tourism.

The Office of Liberation Movements has established a Gulf Section tasked with forming a Gulf Battalion as part of the Jerusalem Forces. In April 1995 a number of international organizations linked to international terrorism --including the Japanese Red Army, the Armenian Secret Army, and the Kurdistan Workers' Party -- were reported to have met in Beirut with representatives of the Iraqi Da'wah Party, the Islamic Front for the Liberation of Bahrain, Hizballah, Iran's "Office of Liberation Movements," and Iran's Guardians of the Revolution. Tehran's objective was to destabilize Arab Gulf states by supporting fundamentalists with military, financial, and logistical support. Members of these and other organizations receive military training at a Guardians of the Revolution facility some 100 kilometers south of Tehran. A variety of of training courses are conducted at the facility for fundamentalists from the Gulf states, Egypt, Algeria, Tunisia, and Lebanon, including naval operations, mines, and diving operations in a special camp near the Orontes River.

[Air Force Cane]

the liberals have created a straw man known as "you can't attack a country because they will rally to the leader of the country" for the last 4 years..

hmm.. did the Afghan people "rally" to their leaders the Taliban when we bombed their country in 2002? NO

did the Iraqi people "rally" to Saddam when we liberated Iraq in 23 days? NO

did the Lebanese "rally" to Hezbullah when Israel bombed them a year ago? NO

when we bombed Islamists in Somalia a year ago- did the people of Somalia "rally" to Al Qaeda's side? NO

when we invaded Panama in 1989 did the Panamanians "rally" to Noriega? Oh yeah, we captured him in a few days and lost less than a platoon.

I love how a liberal can claim something MIGHT happen in the future- even though it is easy to demonstrate examples where the exact opposite has happened.

[Siven]

So we borrow money from China to go to war. Iran buys from China as do we. We go to war with Iran, China wins?

Thats the sum of it.

[twa]

Not all diplomacy is appeasement.

Sometime tyrants are best brought down by collapse from within.

You are correct,but cutting the funding and freedom of the IRGC works towards that..Those Iranians that support them are not going to see things our way in any event.

Cutting their influence and power(if it is even possible) strengthens the domestic opposition(which are being crushed w/o mercy by the IRGC)

Imagine the Shia uprising against Saddam with a actual chance,hopefully W learned from his dad's mistake.

added

This guy gives a good run down on the financial impact.

http://counterterrorismblog.org/2007/08/will_designating_the_irgc_as_t_1.php

[twa]

Quick question, what is the main difference between some of the things the revolutionary guard does, and what the CIA does in some states. Arming the people on your side and trying to provoke and destabalize a gov't that doesnt coincide with your interests? The CIA did this throughout Latin America in the cold war and continues to do it with support for some Iranian elements that are against the gov't. I dont consider this terrorism simply a state trying to use its resources to influence a region.

Which side wins?? ....That is the critical difference ,along with who dies

I have no problem with other governments declaring the CIA a terrorist arm and trying too cut off their funds.

[AsburySkinsFan]

You are right. In the history of mankind, there has never been a diplomatic solution to an impending conflict. Tragic, really.

Its no use Predicto, some people are of the mindset that since we have all these weapons of mass destruction here in our country we might as well put them to good use, no sense all those expensive weapons going to waste now. Besides, all them people over there in Iran just need killin' because they weren't lucky enough to be born here in the US of A.

[twa]

Originally Posted by jpyaks3

Quick question, what is the main difference between some of the things the revolutionary guard does, and what the CIA does in some states.

There is also the little matter of suicide bombers, not sure the CIA is into that

http://www.iranfocus.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=5752

Previously, the senior IRGC commander had declared that his suicide volunteers will destroy U.S. interests all over the world in retaliation to any attempt by Washington to hit Iran’s nuclear installations.

In his recent speech, the commander of Iran’s suicide units hinted that the theocratic state might also make use of long-term “sleeper cells” in the West for these operations.

In an earlier interview with Parto-Sokhan, Jaafari announced that more than 50,000 individuals had been enlisted in the Iranian military garrison opened to recruit and train volunteers for “martyrdom-seeking operations”.

He added that several military divisions of the “Lovers of Martyrdom Garrison” had already been established in several of Iran’s provinces and others were presently being formed to “confront threats by America and Israel”.

[Koolblue13]

TWA- There is also the little matter of suicide bombers, not sure the CIA is into that

http://www.thesimon.com/magazine/articles/canon_fodder/0961_fake_terrorism_coalition_best_friend.html

Incredible, no? Yet this story took place in the southern Iraqi city of Basra recently. Violence continues to escalate in the breakout's aftermath... just not for the reasons you think.

You see, the drivers of the explosive-laden car were not members of an insurgency group — they were British Special Forces. Their rescuers? British soldiers driving British tanks.

That's right — two members of the British Armed forces disguised as Arab civilians killed a member of the Iraqi police while evading capture. When the people of Basra rightfully refused to turn the murderers over to the British government, per Coalition "mandate," they sent their own men in and released over 100 prisoners in the process.

Winning the hearts and minds, aren't we?

But sure, it's the badger releasing British, we wouldn't ever do this.

[twa]

Enjoy your reality Koolblue?

I guess the Brits did the London bombings as well,hell they probably helped the CIA take down the towers.

Nice source.

[PeterMP]

TWA- There is also the little matter of suicide bombers, not sure the CIA is into that

http://www.thesimon.com/magazine/articles/canon_fodder/0961_fake_terrorism_coalition_best_friend.html

Incredible, no? Yet this story took place in the southern Iraqi city of Basra recently. Violence continues to escalate in the breakout's aftermath... just not for the reasons you think.

You see, the drivers of the explosive-laden car were not members of an insurgency group — they were British Special Forces. Their rescuers? British soldiers driving British tanks.

That's right — two members of the British Armed forces disguised as Arab civilians killed a member of the Iraqi police while evading capture. When the people of Basra rightfully refused to turn the murderers over to the British government, per Coalition "mandate," they sent their own men in and released over 100 prisoners in the process.

Winning the hearts and minds, aren't we?

But sure, it's the badger releasing British, we wouldn't ever do this.

Try this one KoolBlue.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4264614.stm

No explosives, and the "police" that captured them handed them over to a Shia militia and not normal Iraqi military.

[Larry]

Saw a bumper sticker a few days back.

Terrorist

What the big Army

Calls the little Army

(No, I'm not saying I agree with it. Just saying that there's a grain of truth.)

[Koolblue13]

Try this one KoolBlue.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4264614.stm

No explosives, and the "police" that captured them handed them over to a Shia militia and not normal Iraqi military.

Thanks for helping me out there, still backs up the story. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle.

[Koolblue13]

Enjoy your reality Koolblue?

I guess the Brits did the London bombings as well,hell they probably helped the CIA take down the towers.

Nice source.

Come on now TWA, I know you think more of me then that. We both know the CIA wouldn't need help.

What I was trying to point out is that your claim about the CIA not doing things like that is wrong, you know it's wrong, you don't have to stick up for them at every turn, the CIA will be fine. I expect more from you then the "your a loon" slander.

[twa]

If it was insurgents or guerrillas I might agree,hell I can even understand Kamikaze pilots to a degree.

Suicide bombers targeting civilians?

Nope ,not even a grain.

[twa]

Come on now TWA, I know you think more of me then that. We both know the CIA wouldn't need help.

What I was trying to point out is that your claim about the CIA not doing things like that is wrong, you know it's wrong, you don't have to stick up for them at every turn, the CIA will be fine. I expect more from you then the "your a loon" slander.

Kool ,I don't think much of the CIA or many of it's methods, but I do put them in a different class than the IRGC...blind homerism I guess.

You don't want the loon treatment ?...Don't use one as a source.