WP: Iranian Unit to Be Labeled 'Terrorist'

[Renegade7]

We won't win the war on terror unless there's a regime change in Iran. All I ask is the the world community doesn't force us to do this alone.

[TradeTheBeal!]

We won't win the war on terror unless there's a regime change in Iran. All I ask is the the world community doesn't force us to do this alone.

How about the war for oil?

[Renegade7]

How about the war for oil?

I'm not talking about the war for oil. This thread and this article aren't about the war for oil.

[TradeTheBeal!]

I'm not talking about the war for oil. This thread and this article aren't about the war for oil.

I respectfully disagree.

[CurseReversed]

I think this is the thing to focus on, right here. People of a forign country, attacking others in a forign country, does not make them my enemy. I don't like them and I wish they didn't exist, but unfortunitly, they do, but standing in the way of "our" progress, is no reason to bring death to millions of people, like either side has.

You continue to show your immense aptitude for moral relativity. Any nation following the orders of someone with absolute power, attacking another for means of conquest, subjugation, or ethnic cleansing is absolutely our enemies. Just as North Korea, Germany, Japan and Iraq were so aptly treated as such. These skirmishes far from our borders very rarely just end, more likely they escalate into something that effects us immensely. No in answer to your predictable response, sorry we DO NOT fall into that category. The U.S. wants a military presence in Iraq for the same reason they have one in every other corner of the globe. There are bed men in this world trying to do bad things, it has been like that for all of history. And more often then not they have have been successfull. Since ww2 it has been and always will be our job to stop them as early as possible. And for the most part in the past 60 years our strategies have been sucessfull.

Do we tartget civilians? We target towns and cities, just because we are targeting the enemy and civilians are colateral damage, we still target them. Does that make it okay in your eyes?

Our standing army has only reciently begun to occupy the ME, that is true, but how long have our arms decided who is strong and how has our CIA impacted who can or will fight? These are things leaders of our enemies have questioned and found fault with, leading to attacking the people who in a democracy, have put them in place and in possition to do these types of things.

Now we are following the plans we had in place that lead to 9/11 and the Iraqi war and implicating them in terms of how we deal with Iran. Where do you think that is going to get us?

Where is dealing with Iran going to get us? I will give you one simple answer.

A continuation of the miracle that no nuculear weapons have been used in anger since ww2. Not one of your fearfull scenarios about another war with Iran compares to the possiblity of the use of these weapons in any way, in any part of the globe, should they fall into the wrong hands.

This is the same logic that makes the Iraq war more then necessary all on its own, just one more nuke crazed dictator out of the running for one.

[Joe Sick]

[Bang]

How about the war for oil?

Let's suppose for a second that it is only a war for oil.

You prepared to give up your car? Your way to work, possibly your job? You prepared to live with the results of allowing the extremists to control such a necessary resource?

What if they decide that the best way to bring down America is to cut the supply off completely.

what would happen?

Is this resource and what it provides to the world worth securing? Or should we just let any despot do what he pleases with it?

earlier you claimed i lacked prescience. Well, prognosticate a little.

what would happen if the radicals control the oil?

~Bang

[CurseReversed]

I would prefer that the radicals didnt control anything more then just a group of radicals. But thats just me being optimistic.

[TradeTheBeal!]

Let's suppose for a second that it is only a war for oil.

You prepared to give up your car? Your way to work, possibly your job? You prepared to live with the results of allowing the extremists to control such a necessary resource?

What if they decide that the best way to bring down America is to cut the supply off completely.

what would happen?

Is this resource and what it provides to the world worth securing? Or should we just let any despot do what he pleases with it?

earlier you claimed i lacked prescience. Well, prognosticate a little.

what would happen if the radicals control the oil?

~Bang

Despot - 1. a king or other ruler with absolute, unlimited power; autocrat.

2. any tyrant or oppressor.

[Koolblue13]

Let's suppose for a second that it is only a war for oil.

You prepared to give up your car? Your way to work, possibly your job? You prepared to live with the results of allowing the extremists to control such a necessary resource?

What if they decide that the best way to bring down America is to cut the supply off completely.

what would happen?

Is this resource and what it provides to the world worth securing? Or should we just let any despot do what he pleases with it?

earlier you claimed i lacked prescience. Well, prognosticate a little.

what would happen if the radicals control the oil?

~Bang

We use more oil running our equiptment in the ME, then we pump out of Iraq and Iran. And do you think if we completly left them alone, they're countries would just take off, I don't. What are we even doing about getting off the oil, certainly not trying. It's the United States for petes sakes, we should be able to do whatever the hell we want and can't get off the oil, what else do we export from that region, poppy? I agree we would be screwed if they just turned off the faucet,but we have to do better.

Worth securing? How well do you think we'll do that down the road, we're certainly kickin' ass in Iraq. At least I hope so, if we're talking about Iran and Pakistan.

We would be able to cut them off financially, but China will just do it and what are we to do then, cut China off.:laugh: Oh boy it a pickle alright.

and let's suppose the war is about oil,but only because that's where the money comes from.

[Bang]

We use more oil running our equiptment in the ME, then we pump out of Iraq and Iran. And do you think if we completly left them alone, they're countries would just take off, I don't. What are we even doing about getting off the oil, certainly not trying. It's the United States for petes sakes, we should be able to do whatever the hell we want and can't get off the oil, what else do we export from that region, poppy? I agree we would be screwed if they just turned off the faucet,but we have to do better.

Worth securing? How well do you think we'll do that down the road, we're certainly kickin' ass in Iraq. At least I hope so, if we're talking about Iran and Pakistan.

We would be able to cut them off financially, but China will just do it and what are we to do then, cut China off.:laugh: Oh boy it a pickle alright.

and let's suppose the war is about oil,but only because that's where the money comes from.

None of that answered a single one of the questions I put out there. It's just another chance to yap about statistics and make fun of the effort, it seems.

I'm asking hypothetically.

IF the extremists control such a valuable resource, are you prepared for how drastically your life may change?

It's a simple question, let's try to not politicize it.

Are you ready for the consequences of that?

~Bang

[Bang]

Despot - 1. a king or other ruler with absolute, unlimited power; autocrat.

2. any tyrant or oppressor.

You too.

Try to play along and answer the question.

Posting cute pictures that display your opinion of W didn't answer me.

Are you ready for life with the world's most valuable resource controlled by fanatics? Are you prepared to face the consequences of that?

~Bang

[AsburySkinsFan]

You too.

Try to play along and answer the question.

Posting cute pictures that display your opinion of W didn't answer me.

Are you ready for life with the world's most valuable resource controlled by fanatics? Are you prepared to face the consequences of that?

~Bang

One thing you might want to consider Bang is that if the "terrorists" get Iraq then they are going to need to sell the oil just as badly as we need to buy it. Saddam was a despot and a brutal murderer of the worst degree and yet he knew that he had to sell the oil. just something to keep in mind.

[twa]

On that note ,remember what Saddam and Iran spent that money on,and to what purpose...both seem interested in cornering the market.

Me, I'm perfectly willing to deal with the consequences of withdrawal from worldwide entanglements...but I like the simple life and can adapt.

[Bang]

One thing you might want to consider Bang is that if the "terrorists" get Iraq then they are going to need to sell the oil just as badly as we need to buy it. Saddam was a despot and a brutal murderer of the worst degree and yet he knew that he had to sell the oil. just something to keep in mind.

True.

They do have to sell it. But would they sell it to us? Or would they rather sell it to other nations who desire the US to fall?

And it's more than just Iraq that these extremists want. From what I've understood they want the entire region to go the way of hard-line Islam.

I want to be clear that my oil question is purely hypothetical. I'm just looking to see who is prepared for, or who's even thought of what may happen should that come to pass.

~Bang

[AsburySkinsFan]

True.

They do have to sell it. But would they sell it to us? Or would they rather sell it to other nations who desire the US to fall?

Well if they want the top price for it then they'll sell it to us. IMO it is very telling that that tyrant and dictator Saddam had Iraq as a member of Opec, my guess is that the next group to take over Iraq will follow suit. BTW, I also think its very telling that Iraqi groups are turning against the Al Qaeda insurgents, maybe, just maybe they don't want them either. Seems to me that it is easier to scare everyone if we paint the entire region with the same brush, and forget that they don't like each other either, and if they don't like each other then why in the world do we think that they are going to allow themselves to be ruled by Al Qaeda?

[Bang]

Well if they want the top price for it then they'll sell it to us. IMO it is very telling that that tyrant and dictator Saddam had Iraq as a member of Opec, my guess is that the next group to take over Iraq will follow suit.

This is also true. I hope that good business sense would over-ride jihad mentality, I'm just not convinced it would.

BTW, I also think its very telling that Iraqi groups are turning against the Al Qaeda insurgents, maybe, just maybe they don't want them either. Seems to me that it is easier to scare everyone if we paint the entire region with the same brush, and forget that they don't like each other either, and if they don't like each other then why in the world do we think that they are going to allow themselves to be ruled by Al Qaeda?

True again. Thing is, people who live under dictatorships or otherwise oppressive regimes most likely didn't intend to be in that position. Just what they can do about it is another story.

~Bang

[Koolblue13]

None of that answered a single one of the questions I put out there. It's just another chance to yap about statistics and make fun of the effort, it seems.

I'm asking hypothetically.

IF the extremists control such a valuable resource, are you prepared for how drastically your life may change?

It's a simple question, let's try to not politicize it.

Are you ready for the consequences of that?

~Bang

Yes I am. My friends just bought a house and we are already planning the installation of solar panels and windmills(very small and can be put in tree tops). I have a garden and could quickly put together what I needed to make my own fuel. I also have fuel reserves of my own(only 100 gallons), that I usually use for field cars. I am also willing to do whatever I can. This is about as good as I can do right now, but yes I could do more.

If oil just stopped flowing, we would all be screwed, I understand that. My point was, we, as a nation, are barely trying. When we knew in 91' and before, that this situation was possible. We are killing people(women and children) to support our need for oil and are doing virtually nothing to stop that, there is my problem. I would gladly drastically alter my life to end our involvment with China and the ME.

[Koolblue13]

Also, most of the industialized world is suppost to be our allies, if we could get off the oil, they should as well.

[Bang]

Yes I am. My friends just bought a house and we are already planning the installation of solar panels and windmills(very small and can be put in tree tops). I have a garden and could quickly put together what I needed to make my own fuel. I also have fuel reserves of my own(only 100 gallons), that I usually use for field cars. I am also willing to do whatever I can. This is about as good as I can do right now, but yes I could do more.

If oil just stopped flowing, we would all be screwed, I understand that. My point was, we, as a nation, are barely trying. When we knew in 91' and before, that this situation was possible. We are killing people(women and children) to support our need for oil and are doing virtually nothing to stop that, there is my problem. I would gladly drastically alter my life to end our involvment with China and the ME.

Very commendable. If others had the same sense of personal responsibility towards the issue, it wouldn't be such an issue.

i do have a huge problem with the Hummer set, simply because they show absolutely no social conscience at all. These soldiers die for their 'right' to drive these huge wastes of everything, and it sickens me the entitlement to it they claim.

But, even if we all drove Cooper Minis, the problem would still exist if the extremists get what they want.

we have known we've had to find an alternate energy source for decades, and for a while there auto makers seemed to be in lockstep with it,, smaller cars, tremendous mileage.. now mileage isn't even a concern anymore. The ability to drive to the top of a mountain to get the view, now that is important.

I'd be happy to find every oil company executive that worked to squash alternative energy research and throw them in prison. But at the same time it doesn't change the reality of now.

~Bang

[Koolblue13]

True enough Bang and the fault lies in us, the US citizens. For not seeing the potential dangers in the ME 15 years ago and demanding to get off of the oil then, but here we are now and still not doing everything we can. There are some very simple things our gov't could do to encourage companies to be more aware and if we actually cared enough as a society, we would atleast be headed in the right dirrection IMO.

Is there any reason to think the war on terror will come out any different then the wars on drugs and poverty? The only things they have in common are people are making a lot of money of them and they will never end the actual problem. We have got to find another way to be strong, safe and free.

This post was paid for by the Ron Paul campaign.

[Renegade7]

It doesn't matter if our cars ran on lima beans, they still want to kill us. What's so hard to get about that?

[twa]

It doesn't matter if our cars ran on lima beans, they still want to kill us. What's so hard to get about that?

We wouldn't be financing their efforts to kill us though.

I do understand and agree.

[AsburySkinsFan]

It doesn't matter if our cars ran on lima beans, they still want to kill us. What's so hard to get about that?

Oh my, where to start?..............

You do of course realize that they want to kill us because we've treated the entire Middle East like our own personal chess match, using the Iraqis, mujahadeen etc as pawns against our real enemies, all the while blindly standing by Israel regardless of what they do to Palestinians, right? Imagine for a minute why thy might want to hurt the US. It's called "blowback" Regan knew it 20 years ago and we should know it today, but no we just think that they are all just a bunch of ravenous beasts hell bent on destroying the west, while raping our women, and enslaving our children.

Honestly, Renegade, I don't know who you are listening to, but you really do need to figure out what really brought all this stuff on. Are we completely guilty for everything? No, but neither are we innocent by-standers either.

[SkinsFanAnt]

These people are targeting our soldiers and Iraqi citizens with terrorist attacks. They ARE terrorists.

Sure...just like the Iraqi's and Afghans too! Oh wait...it was WE who bombed the **** out of them first, right?...um...ok....let me fix that:

Sure, just like WE targeted the Iraqi's and Afghans too! Our nation are the terrorists...not some national guard who protects their own country. This is what's wrong with this country...people believe what the Bush regime wants you to hear instead of believing the actions they see with their own eyes. When will you the people of this nation overcome government and media induced prejudice?