Bang Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 Be "embarassed" for the poor soldiers who have to take this..."Soldiers fear that the biochip, about the size of a grain of rice, which measures and relays information on soldiers vital signs 24 hours a day, can be used to put them under surveillance even when they are off duty." Then they should not enlist and take the oath that says they ARE government property 24 hours a day, seven days a week, 365 days a year until they separate. As such the military does have the right to monitor them if they so desire. A soldier is not free, he or she does not live with the same rights as we civilians. ~Bang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Posted July 31, 2007 Author Share Posted July 31, 2007 Then they should not enlist and take the oath that says they ARE government property 24 hours a day, seven days a week, 365 days a year until they separate.As such the military does have the right to monitor them if they so desire. A soldier is not free, he or she does not live with the same rights as we civilians. ~Bang I understand that they are "Government Property", but where is the line? Seems that if they mandated taking a chip on your brain, of which lord knows what they could do with it, isn't that a bit much? If it was voluntary, then that would be a completely different story. This is certainly my oppionion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 Then they should not enlist and take the oath that says they ARE government property 24 hours a day, seven days a week, 365 days a year until they separate.As such the military does have the right to monitor them if they so desire. A soldier is not free, he or she does not live with the same rights as we civilians. ~Bang Just allow me to point out that 1) The government has the authority to order soldiers to die. does not mean 2) Dead soldiers is a good idea. The topic of discussion here was "Are these chips a good idea?", not "Does the government have the authority?". (Although considering recent events, a chip that would monitor an astronaut's alcohol intake, 24-7, might not be a completely bad idea, either.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rumpshakers Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 Another sign of big brother will be watching. I'm glad I'm retired, its a bunch of bull. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 Just allow me to point out that1) The government has the authority to order soldiers to die. does not mean 2) Dead soldiers is a good idea. The topic of discussion here was "Are these chips a good idea?", not "Does the government have the authority?". Larry, I'm not sure that logic works. Because there ARE cases where soldiers DO have to die, and the idea that causes their death IS a good idea (such as the Normandy landings, for example.) Now then, are these chips a good idea? If they can help us win wars and save lives of our soldiers, then I think they are. If you are really worried about power abuse in the military, what's to stop an Army from secretly implanting whatever in a soldier's body in their sleep right now? Or doing it under the guise of "this is an innoculation" or something? As Bang says, the government already owns the soldier. A chip that monitors vital signs isn't going to change that. In other words: 1) the government has the authority to order soldiers to die. does not mean 2) if you join the military, you are going to die. And frankly, if they were going to implant some sort of secret form of control/spying into our soldiers, they wouldn't freaking announce it. They'd just do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themurf Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 what's to stop an Army from secretly implanting whatever in a soldier's body in their sleep right now? Or doing it under the guise of "this is an innoculation" or something? It's called Anthrax shots. They didn't know what the hell they were doing with those and now I have buddies who are screwed up for life -- with issues like degenerative hip conditions and rheumatoid arthritis. They give six shots over the course of 18 months to complete the Anthrax shots. I got the first one and then the wonderful Army medical staff decided to release me from the program when they figured out I had less than 18 months in my enlistment term and I wasn't sticking around. Don't you think if these shots really were worth a damn they would have kept me in the program or had a better plan than "oh well, he's leaving?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 And frankly, if they were going to implant some sort of secret form of control/spying into our soldiers, they wouldn't freaking announce it. They'd just do it. The folks who are opposed to this idea (and, BTW, I'm not certain I'm one of them) are pointing out exactly the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkforhall Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 So you want our soldiers to die and our astronauts to perish? Really? You are a heartless ****.(See ken, I can play too. Your move, chief. :munchout: ) Ok buddy...Let me ask you this... If they were going to use it for bad things, do you think they would announce it? Your move.. FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT! I bet we're all part computer in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 It's called Anthrax shots. They didn't know what the hell they were doing with those and now I have buddies who are screwed up for life -- with issues like degenerative hip conditions and rheumatoid arthritis.They give six shots over the course of 18 months to complete the Anthrax shots. I got the first one and then the wonderful Army medical staff decided to release me from the program when they figured out I had less than 18 months in my enlistment term and I wasn't sticking around. Don't you think if these shots really were worth a damn they would have kept me in the program or had a better plan than "oh well, he's leaving?" Yeah, I've got a cousin in the Marines and another who's an Army Ranger. I've heard stories. I'm not suggesting everything the military does to it's soldiers is a good idea. I think what I said was "If they can help us win wars and save lives of our soldiers, then I think they are." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koolblue13 Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 Yeah, I've got a cousin in the Marines and another who's an Army Ranger. I've heard stories.I'm not suggesting everything the military does to it's soldiers is a good idea. I think what I said was "If they can help us win wars and save lives of our soldiers, then I think they are." Maybe if we all get them, we can stop drug use and crime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 Maybe if we all get them, we can stop drug use and crime. That would be great! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 Maybe if we all get them, we can stop drug use and crime. If we were all in the military, that would make a lot of sense. I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koolblue13 Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 If we were all in the military, that would make a lot of sense.I guess. Or being born in Florida nowadays or a pet in New Jersey, but it'll never happen anywhere else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baculus Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 Well, I think part of the issue here is that the government and military hasn't always demonstrated brilliance when it comes to the welfare of its soldiers. Case in point, clean-up crews of soldiers, in the first Gulf War, who were told that depleted uranium was safe because the uranium is "depleted," or the recent controversy with dragon skin body armor. Or my nephew's unit, which is being sent to Iraq in two weeks, having to pay for its own bus trip from NJ to MD to visit their families before they are shipped out, because the military doesn't want to pay for the bill. Yes, it is true that everything the government does isn't "evil." It is also true that everything the government does isn't "good" as well. You'd have to seriously naive to put your complete faith in government (and government contractors) with some of these programs. So, there is little reason to assume that microchipping soldiers is some wonderful experiment that is going to go terribly well, and that the government has the complete and total best interests of the soldier at the heart of this microchipping. Because the government has yet to display such an interest in the past and the present. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 Or being born in Florida nowadays or a pet in New Jersey, but it'll never happen anywhere else. What the hell are you talking about? Hey, did you guys know that the government can tell a soldier where to live? And what to eat? When to sleep? We'd better watch out. Next thing you know you'll wake up and find yourself living in Poughkeepsie and eating brussell sprouts for breakfast. Oh, and someone has developed this thing called a pacemaker that they put INTO YOUR BODY to regulate your heartbeat. Who knows what else the thing does? I'll tell you, if I ever have a heart problem there's no WAY I'm letting them put one of THOSE in me! Good gravy, people. The military researches ways to improve the capabilities of it's soldiers all the time. Medicine has already developed technology that involves implants and monitoring of vital organs. If this sort of thing freaks you out, move to a place that doesn't have a military and doesn't practice medical research ... like the moon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 So Baculus, the military should never try anything new because it's just going to screw it up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 Just to step sideways for a moment. Isn't it wild how we have totally entered the age of Science Fiction. It's just so bloody amazing what they can do! They can design prosthetic limbs that grasp and move and flex for amputees. They're very close to designing a bionic eye that can talk to a human brain and give sight to the blind. We now are hearing about a chip that can monitor the health of a soldier. I don't actually disagree with Ken that there is the potential here for abuse. Rove and Cheney would like nothing better than a remote control army with them on the joystick and turning our bravest into toy robots... but regardless of the potential for abuse, it is just amazing where we are at. The only thing Star Trek has going on us is transporters. We have the communicators, we have lasers, we have faster than light communication (just watch Tony Snow spin at a press conference) It's just very, very exciting to imagine where we are and what we are on the cusp of achieving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airborneskins Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 Or my nephew's unit, which is being sent to Iraq in two weeks, having to pay for its own bus trip from NJ to MD to visit their families before they are shipped out, because the military doesn't want to pay for the bill. Just curious... Why should the military pay for the trip home to see the families? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koolblue13 Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 What the hell are you talking about?Hey, did you guys know that the government can tell a soldier where to live? And what to eat? When to sleep? We'd better watch out. Next thing you know you'll wake up and find yourself living in Poughkeepsie and eating brussell sprouts for breakfast. Oh, and someone has developed this thing called a pacemaker that they put INTO YOUR BODY to regulate your heartbeat. Who knows what else the thing does? I'll tell you, if I ever have a heart problem there's no WAY I'm letting them put one of THOSE in me! Good gravy, people. The military researches ways to improve the capabilities of it's soldiers all the time. Medicine has already developed technology that involves implants and monitoring of vital organs. If this sort of thing freaks you out, move to a place that doesn't have a military and doesn't practice medical research ... like the moon. A pace maker and a chip are worlds apart Henry.Implantable RFID chips designed for animal tagging are now being used in humans. An early experiment with RFID implants was conducted by British professor of cybernetics Kevin Warwick, who implanted a chip in his arm in 1998. Night clubs in Barcelona, Spain and in Rotterdam, The Netherlands, use an implantable chip to identify their VIP customers, who in turn use it to pay for drinks.[citation needed] RFID implantee Amal Graafstra kick-started the DIY implant craze when he implanted a glass ampoule style EM4102 tag into his left hand in March 2005. He has since been named one of the top 25 influencersin the RFID industry. He regularly answers questions on his RFID Toys reader forum. The pictures shown to the right of this section are before and after photos of Amal's left hand. In 2004, the Mexican Attorney General's office implanted 18 of its staff members with the Verichip to control access to a secure data room. (This number has been variously mis-reported as 160 or 180 staff members.[citation needed] Security experts are warned against using RFID for authenticating people due to the risk of identity theft. For instance a man-in-the-middle attack would make it possible for an attacker to steal the identity of a person in real-time. Due to the resource-constraints of RFIDs it is virtually impossible to protect against such attack models as this would require complex distance-binding protocols.[citation needed] The Food and Drug Administration in the US has approved the use of RFID chips in humans.[24] Some business establishments have also started to chip customers, such as the Baja Beach nightclub in Barcelona. This has provoked concerns into privacy of individuals as they can potentially be tracked wherever they go by an identifier unique to them. There are some concerns this could lead to abuse by an authoritarian government or lead to removal of other freedoms.[25] On July 22, 2006, Reuters reported that two hackers, Newitz and Westhues, at a conference in New York City showed that they could clone the RFID signal from a human implanted RFID chip, showing that the chip is not hack-proof as was previously believed.[26] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 For me, I guess the question with these chips is what channel are we on? Are these chips a preview to Logan's Run or the Six Million Dollar Man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 What's your point Koolblue? That some people voluntarily use implants for convenience? I knew that already. In fact, I thought of mentioning that people already did this stuff as my example, but since it's not widespread in the US I didn't think it relevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baculus Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 So Baculus, the military should never try anything new because it's just going to screw it up? No, I never once stated that in my post, did I? Did you actually read what I said? I believe new military hardware is cool and I support R&D. I just believe it is careless to believe that such technologies always has good outcomes or intentions, or that the government indeed always has the best intentions at heart. Why don't we try to stay with my words and not create false deductions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 I don't actually disagree with Ken that there is the potential here for abuse. Me neither actually. However, plenty of existing technology can be potentially abused or misused. That's not a reason to not research something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baculus Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 Me neither actually. However, plenty of existing technology can be potentially abused or misused. That's not a reason to not research something. No one said it wasn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baculus Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 Just curious... Why should the military pay for the trip home to see the families? Um - because they were shipped out BY the military for additional training and aren't being given a chance to even say "See ya!" before they are shipped to Iraq. Just like my nephew wasn't issued a combat knife, so I had to give him my Kabar. And he didn't have proper strapping for his SAW, so his family had to provide that was well. In fact, more the one person in his unit wasn't provided with proper gear that they had to purchase. Keep in mind that he is in the Maryland Army National Guard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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