Can somebody please straighten me out, what is the difference between dog fighting..

[Prosperity]

the guy's question should be what is the difference between the life of a dog and the life of a deer

overpopulation isn't so much an issue since Pits and other dogs are already getting put to sleep everyday for that reason.

food isn't a reason because there are people who wouldn't mind eating dogs

so basically all you guys are wrong and I am right... the difference is our perception of the animals (dogs friendly and loyal... deer annoying) not all these fabricated rationalizations you guys are coming up with

[twa]

Mass, that was a great post.

Liberty...You have a point....But I'm never wrong

[Teller]

Does anybody think all this would have happened if Vick raced Greyhounds and shot them when they were done racing? I don't think so :whoknows: a lot of people are overreacting in my opinion.

You're right. And to continue down the moral equivalency path....

I don't think anyone disagrees that in war, it's necessary to kill people sometimes, right? So we should do away with laws against murder. I mean, really. What's the diff?

[RDSKNfaithfull]

You're right. And to continue down the moral equivalency path....

I don't think anyone disagrees that in war, it's necessary to kill people sometimes, right? So we should do away with laws against murder. I mean, really. What's the diff?

You can draw the line between breeds I draw the line at human life. It is wrong and he should be punished no doubt but to see so many people outraged and thinking he should spend years in prison is a bit disturbing to me. Some people just don't have the same love for animals (not including myself I have two boxers and love them very much) I think somebody who simply steals from another human being and lies is worse.

[Mass_SkinsFan]

You can draw the line between breeds I draw the line at human life. It is wrong and he should be punished no doubt but to see so many people outraged and thinking he should spend years in prison is a bit disturbing to me. Some people just don't have the same love for animals (not including myself I have two boxers and love them very much) I think somebody who simply steals from another human being and lies is worse.

To a certain degree I can agree with that. My roommates and I currently live with 4 cats, a dog and we have 2 horses that we love very much. Now I wouldn't put the wellbeing of the animals ahead of any of our (my or my roommates) lives; but I might well put them ahead of many other people's lives because of my emotional attachment to them.

That having been said, these fighting dogs are bred for one purpose and one purpose only.... VIOLENCE. They are not pets or part of the family. They are a commodity to these people and they're treated as such. That's what makes their breeding and use so deplorable to me. These animals are being abused (as I define it) from the moment they're born until the moment they die. The people involved in this activity know that. They just dont give a ****. THAT'S where I think the seriousness of the punishment needs to come in. This is wanton, premeditated abuse on a wholesale level. There is no redeeming value to this activity. The punishment needs to fit that crime.

[Die Hard]

It is wrong and he should be punished no doubt but to see so many people outraged and thinking he should spend years in prison is a bit disturbing to me.

I think there's probably a difference between casually betting on dogfighting occasionally.... as opposed to purchasing property and RUNNING a dog-fighting organization for 5+ years and finding 50 dead dogs buried in your yard.

Go kill your neighbor's dog.... go see what happens to you. Now go kill 50 dogs in your neighborhood.... see if they lock you up.

[Koolblue13]

Mass, that was a great post.

Dogs have a respect for people, that has been breed into them for centuries. To take that respect and use it to turn them against themselves in an unnatural way, for the pleasure of entertainment, is wrong. Dogs don't fight each other for a purse in the natural world, only when we train them to do so. It's not that dogs are cuter or we like them better, it's that they are truely a part of humanity. When we begin to take that species and twist it's trust against it's self, we do an injustace. Breeds of dogs will be extinct because of mankind for simple bloodlust and pleasure. People steal neighborhood dogs to use as training dummies, again breaking that trust. I think this is what makes it worse.

Most of the hunters I know have a lot of respect for not only the animal they hunt, but the way in which they do it. I see no difference, as somebody said earlier, between the trophie hunter or people who shoot an animal and don't track it and a dog fighter. Hunting at worst, can be a nessecary evil. I live in one of the wrost parts of the country for deer/car acidents and urban sprawl, so I understand. Bear are also hunted by me and although I have a moral problem with that and could never kill a bear myself, I do understand why it's done. Thats more of a problem with population in my eyes and I have a hard time punishing the animals for our overpopulation.

I think a better question would be, what s the difference between farming animals for food and dog fighting. It's an extremely cruel world for some of those animals and most of us have no idea what goes on. If you eat meat, I truely believe you should take your entire family, regardless of age, to a slaughter house. Pigs are believed to be as smart as dogs, my dogs would know the life they have and that is upsetting.

The treatment of racing animals has improved a lot over the years, although i'm certain it could use more. If you can't see the difference between racing a dog and fighting one, I don't think there is anything I could say to you.

[Mass_SkinsFan]

I think a better question would be, what s the difference between farming animals for food and dog fighting. It's an extremely cruel world for some of those animals and most of us have no idea what goes on. If you eat meat, I truely believe you should take your entire family, regardless of age, to a slaughter house. Pigs are believed to be as smart as dogs, my dogs would know the life they have and that is upsetting.

Koolblue, I come from what was once a totally farming family. Even in this generation, we still have a couple parts of the family that farm as part of their living. I've eaten beef, chicken, rabbit, lamb, and pork that I knew while it was still alive. For me the difference is that those animals are raised for food. Their meat serves a purpose in feeding people. The carcus of a fighting dog serves no useful purpose whatsoever.

Now I understand that my position might be different if I hadn't grown up eating that sort of stuff, but I still see a very big difference between dog fighting and raising beef cattle, etc....

[Koolblue13]

Koolblue, I come from what was once a totally farming family. Even in this generation, we still have a couple parts of the family that farm as part of their living. I've eaten beef, chicken, rabbit, lamb, and pork that I knew while it was still alive. For me the difference is that those animals are raised for food. Their meat serves a purpose in feeding people. The carcus of a fighting dog serves no useful purpose whatsoever.

Now I understand that my position might be different if I hadn't grown up eating that sort of stuff, but I still see a very big difference between dog fighting and raising beef cattle, etc....

I do to. I just think that everyone should be concience to the reality of it and how the food gets to the plate. I see a huge difference in dog fighting and farming food. I just think the line gets blurred between pork chops and carrots.

Mass, all of your posts in this thread have been right on.

[Doozinbrah]

Koolblue, I come from what was once a totally farming family. Even in this generation, we still have a couple parts of the family that farm as part of their living. I've eaten beef, chicken, rabbit, lamb, and pork that I knew while it was still alive. For me the difference is that those animals are raised for food. Their meat serves a purpose in feeding people. The carcus of a fighting dog serves no useful purpose whatsoever.

Now I understand that my position might be different if I hadn't grown up eating that sort of stuff, but I still see a very big difference between dog fighting and raising beef cattle, etc....

Exactly.I think if someone did not grow up in a situation where their family had a farm and lived off the land, they might not understand the difference between hunting for neccesity and hunting for fun(which I think is absolutely wrong). Its really just a matter of how you were raised and what you were taught

[RDSKNfaithfull]

nevermind we all know it is wrong what he did we just have diffrences in opinion on how severe his punishment should be not knowing exact facts this case is built on conspiracy which is easier to prove than having video evidence.

[twa]

I don't think he really was running the dog-fighting organazation I think he was aware and occasionally bet on dogs. It doesn't matter what I think or any of us think though this will play it self out and we will see due process the 18 pages are not gospel though no matter what the %'s are there is a reason for due process.

From what I've read he was actively involved in both the training and fighting.

But you are correct,he is innocent until the charges are substantiated..

[Koolblue13]

I don't think he really was running the dog-fighting organazation I think he was aware and occasionally bet on dogs. It doesn't matter what I think or any of us think though this will play it self out and we will see due process the 18 pages are not gospel though no matter what the %'s are there is a reason for due process.

Your right, there is a difference between being the owner and the GM.

[RDSKNfaithfull]

Your right, there is a difference between being the owner and the GM.

For some teams :cool:

[Shadowplay]

Let's see, one is humane....and one is not. You aren't allowed to set up electrical charges in a lake in order to fry all the fish, just like you aren't allowed to set up a gun with a camera on an automated tripod so you can kill them from your desktop with your mouse.

I've heard a lot of these arguments before...most of them coming from black people calling into 980. I mostly think hunting is a ridiculous test of penis envy and an excuse for people to own guns (hey I NEED that AK-47 to kill deer!). I would ask people to stop and think about the differences before just trying "ask the question".

[Drockvb]

Must hunters eat their kills.

As far as i know Vick doesn't eat dog meat, but maybe he does. :laugh:

[PleaseBlitz]

So if Mike Vick ate his dogs, would that make it ok?

Personally i think hunting is pretty horrible, but not as bad as fighting dogs.

[Drockvb]

I don't hunt and don't care to do it. I would feel to guilty killing the animals. but i have no problem with hunting as long as you eat what you kill.

and PB, no that would not be ok if Vick ate his dogs. :laugh: That would be a little creepy.

[Ellis]

I don't see dog fighting and hunting even REMOTELY similar.

I come from a redneck area of MD called Edgewater. Family has been here since it was crap-hole and the closest grocery store was in Annapolis. Now, it's quickly becoming one of the richest areas of Anne Arundel County.

I come from a family of hunters. Not hardcore hunters, but we hunted. In Edgewater, my grandfather and his sons would hunt deer and duck back in the 70's and my grandfather had been hunting there way before that. Ya see, back then they were poor so they HAD to hunt just to save a little bit of money. On top of hunting, they also caught blue crabs and fish. As a kid in the 80's, my parents were not that well off and we lived in the same neighborhood as my grandfather. I used to go catch blue crabs on the community pier everyday when summer hit. It saved my family a lot of money in the summer.

When I caught food... I never thought to myself "man, it's gonna be so awesome when I kill this animal!!!" That's rediculous. When I caught food, I thought, "my mom's gonna be so proud of the food I'm bringing home." There is honor in providing for your family and that's where my values are.

Hunting is not remotely barbaric. And I say that from experience. If it hadn't been for hunting, my family would've been much more broke than they were and we'd be hungry. I can't stand people from PeTA because they treat the art of hunting as if we're the only animal on the planet that eats meat. LOL!

[twa]

I don't see dog fighting and hunting even REMOTELY similar.

I can't stand people from PeTA because they treat the art of hunting as if we're the only animal on the planet that eats meat. LOL!

Agreed, when I saw PCS's latest deer picks my first thoughts were venison medallions/potatoes swimming in gravy. :laugh:

[Ellis]

These dogs are fighting. SO what is the difference between a Dog fight and boxing match, or The Ultimate Fighting Matches?

There's a very big difference.

The dogs do not "choose" to fight and when they lose or are seriously injured beyond fixing, they are executed.

On the otherhand, UFC is a "choice" the people make and if they are brutally hurt, they are not executed. Furthermore, those fighters greatly respect each other and are not trying to kill each other.

[Ellis]

5. Understand that deer are dying because of overpopulation. I've seen too many skeletal deer desperately looking for food in the winter. We've put them in this situation; we need to fix it.

I can vouch for this... my friends father came home with a deer he had just hunted that day. When we were cleaning it, we got to the rib cage and the deer was so weak that you could flick a bone of the rib cage and have it shatter. NO KIDDING. It must not have eaten for months, you'd think. I found the moment really sad. I had never seen it before.

[AJ_Skins]

The correct analogy is to the gladiatorial games in ancient Rome. Man vs. man, animal vs. animal, man vs. animal fights to the death, for the entertainment of a crowd.

Hunting is an activity that is as old as the human race, and has been practiced by every society that ever existed, for the purpose of food. Technology has very recently made it unnecessary in highly developed societies like ours, but in poorer countries people still need to do it to survive. In America, people who still hunt do it mostly because it is a tradition, and they provide a service by controlling the animal population. I think there is an argument that hunting for its own sake when there is no greater purpose is questionable. However, the point of hunting is never to make the animal suffer.

Also, dogs are pets, deer are wild animals. The dogs in question are being bred for the specific purpose of fighting to the death for the entertainment of their owners. The whole purpose of dog fighting is for people to take pleasure in the suffering of animals. It is therefore sick and twisted on a magnitude far beyond anything you could apply to hunting.

I don't understand why people like horror movies or the Sopranos either, but there is a slight difference--movies and TV are fake.

[turbodiesel#44]

Interesting thread and some very interesting responses so far. Here's my take on it.....

Dogfighting, ****fighting, etc... are activities which are designed to see damage, if not death done to one or more of the participating animals. These animals are bred solely for the purpose of being used as weapons or combatants in a "game" where even if they win they often end up seriously wounded, if not maimed. If they lose, they die... either at the teeth/claws of their opponent or as a final "punishment" for having lost. There is nothing humane or decent about the entire activity.

Horse and dog racing are somewhat better than the fighting groups. Yes, in many instances the animal has no more emotional input from their owner/trainer than the fighters, but at least the intent is somewhat better. A successful race horse will likely live out his or her life breeding and living a very nice life. Losing animals are rarely killed outright these days, and the groups looking to place greyhounds, standardbreds and saddlebred horses do wonderful work with placing these animals in loving homes. That isn't to say that none of these animals have horrible things happen to them. A crippled horse or dog will often be put down, but more and more these days kennels and stables are looking at potential rehabilitation before simply killing injured racers.

Hunting is a very different activity than either of the others. Hunting purely for sport disgusts me, as does the idea of taking an animal then not tracking it down to ensure it doesn't suffer. Those who choose to do so are among the lowest levels of trash in my mind. They're also the great exception to the rule among hunters. However, the activity of hunting provides a lot of wonderful opportunities and involvements. Hunters and fishermen are the among the most active conservationists in this country. All too often people get the idea that hunters simply stand in the woods, wait for an animal to come by and shoot it. That is VERY rarely the case. There is a lot of preparation, tracking, waiting, and patience involved in the activity. It is, for many hunters, a sport of man against nature... where man does not always win. Hunters also provide assistance in culling many over-grown animal populations that would otherwise starve or start invading more urban areas. I've had the absolute pleasure of dining on venison, moose, rabbit, bear, pheasant, duck, goose, and a couple other game animals over the years. They've all been wonderful meals, and always taken by honest, law abiding hunters who respected their prey. Not all hunters are great sportsmen, but you'll find most hold very little in common with the people involved in dogfighting.

1. There is not one iota of difference, in any way, between hunting and dog fighting. They couldnt't be more exactly alike. That's patently obvious. It's the same from the very first consideration, down to the last detail. Even just a moment's thought would reveal this as undeniably true. It's so wierd you had to ask.

2. I blame Bush (the president not the group), the music of Little Boll Weevil or Boo Woo or whoever he is, and the widespread social failure that is Christianity in the U.S.

So it's a racial mix. We need more Buddhist moderates who like Motown to change things for the better.

How can two opposing posts both be so exactly right on? My brain is leaking out my ear.

[Major Harris]

and hunting? Hunting gets a large amount of media coverage. If it is all about brutality to animals why is hunting so popular. Is it a racial thing?

"We've got an improper use of the race card, number 87.

That's a one-post penalty."