Alcohol at Son's 16th Gets 27-Month Sentence

[IONTOP]

And the prosecutor said this is the WORST case of underage drinking he's seen in 15 years? What a :censored: moron

Um... people 5 or 6 years younger than the legal drinking age at an (i'm assuming) keg party, 5 years is 1/3rd of their lives, so they're only 75% of the way to 21.... And this isn't..."Mom and dad aren't home, let's steal a beer from the fridge" it's "Mom bought us alcohol so come over and drink!!"

This is a pretty bad case...

[Mass_SkinsFan]

Knowing your feelings about crime and punishment, you probably would give her the death penalty :doh: .

Death, no. Though I would see her spend a whole lot more time in jail... let's say 2-3 years PER youth who was in attendance at the event and she would be barred from having any other than the most minor contact with children in the future.

[Westbrook36]

Its funny, because when i was a freshman in college, the kids that drank in HS (at age 15-18) adjusted much better to the college environment. The ones that were able to drink for the first time went way overboard and most failed out. HALF my dorm failed out. 30 of 60.

I have no problem if a parent serves my future kids beer when the are 15 IF i know about it in advance and no one leaves until morning.

Well, that makes sense. Based off of your small sample size and I'm sure sterling memory of college, you'd be willing to subject your kids to much greater odds of becoming alcoholics, based off of no **** research and studies.

Responses like this make me wish there was an IQ test required for procreation.

[Westbrook36]

I doubt it. Those were the rules when i was growing up. Worked out just fine.

Well, since it worked out just fine with you, I guess you are assuming that it is 100 percent odds that your kids will turn out fine if they drink at 15, even though countless studies say the chances are the exact opposite.

[Westbrook36]

People need to understand a few things. . .

1. Teenagers will drink alcohol

2. Teenagers will drive a car when drinking alcohol

3. Teenagers will get in a car with someone who is drinking, and will die.

Those three facts are an inevitable part of growing up as a teenager. I drove drunk as a teenager, I was in the car with people who were drunk, everyone I know was, everyone I went to school with at one point or another was in the car with a drunk driver, or was drunk themselves.

So how do you stop it? It is funny, because the "responsible" thing to do is to make sure your child does not drink and drive. The best possible way is to keep your eyes on them, and if they are drinking, make sure do not drive by either chaperoning or having people over and taking the keys of others. That way you KNOW 100% for a fact that your child is not getting in the car with a drunk driver.

If you want to take the "my kid would never do something like that approach", then you may just end up like other parents who have lost a child to drunk driving. Well, the choice is yours, drinking and driving happens, and although what she did was illegal, it was still a responsible thing to do if you can see the big picture in the grand scheme of things. . .I don't expect many to understand that point though.

I find it interesting you are passing along your experiences as rock solid facts of life that people need to understand. Good show.

[IONTOP]

Holy crap, everyone say goodbye to their family and friends, start believing in God if you don't already.....

It's an Eagles fan, siding against drinking alcohol for certain people....

[Monte51Coleman]

My brothers and I went by the same rules and none of us have a drinking or drug problem and we are well past 25 yrs later.

My children were raised under the same rules w/o problem so far,in fact they are above average in intelligence and responsible behavior.

I think teaching responsibility and the hazards inherent in drinking are a factor.

Alcoholism is a genetic trait in some,as your study shows

Children of alcoholics are significantly more likely to initiate drinking during adolescence and to develop alcohol use disorders.3

You must have quoted me by mistake. I posted no studies.

If you think it's okay or a benefit for your children to drink alcoholic beverages at 15 years of age I've got no problem with it....they're your children.

However, if you think it's okay for my children to do so at your house without my knowledge I've got a big problem with it. That is exactly the decision that she made.

[Westbrook36]

Holy crap, everyone say goodbye to their family and friends, start believing in God if you don't already.....

It's an Eagles fan, siding against drinking alcohol for certain people....

I find it hilarious that people are advocating letting underage people be able to drink at home when study after study shows you are enabling them and potentially giving them much better odds of being an alcoholic. But hey, you'll be one of the "cool" parents that the other kids give high fives to and your kids will love you.

That's all that matters, right?

[IONTOP]

I find it hilarious that people are advocating letting underage people be able to drink at home when study after study shows you are enabling them and potentially giving them much better odds of being an alcoholic. But hey, you'll be one of the "cool" parents that the other kids give high fives to and your kids will love you.

That's all that matters, right?

Actually reading comprehension is all that matters... Find a quote in this thread where I have said it was okay and that I would do it for my kids... I dare you...

Yeah that's right... pwned...

[twa]

You must have quoted me by mistake. I posted no studies.

If you think it's okay or a benefit for your children to drink alcoholic beverages at 15 years of age I've got no problem with it....they're your children.

However, if you think it's okay for my children to do so at your house without my knowledge I've got a big problem with it. That is exactly the decision that she made.

Sorry for the misquote

I agree allowing it w/o parental approval and proper supervision is a serious mistake and she should be punished.

The amount of liquor purchased also seems excessive for responsible drinking. imo.

[jrockster21]

They were 15 & 16 years old. Not serving them alcohol is not prudish, it's called being a responsible adult.

It is prudish - based on our society. Which is my point.

But they know its illegal right ? Seems as she should have known. Weed smokers know the risks involved as well.

You are missing the point as well. Of course she knew it was probably crossing a line, but that doesn't mean she thought it was wrong - she could have thought she was doing a good thing by preventing 20 some teenagers from driving drunk that night. :whoknows:

I dont think for a second that knowing letting anyone drink and drive is a good thing. And it is better than giving them that option. However I dont own a car that has less than 3 sets of keys.

Well now you're just being paranoid. :laugh:

I guess most people in this thread have never seen the studies showing that if you have an alcoholic drink before 15, you are like 10 times more likely to be an alcoholic.

Great dad duty to those who said they have no problem supplying their underage kids.

Your number one duty is to raise your kids with the best possible shot at having a sucessful, fulfilling life. Sometimes parents want to be liked so much, they think things like this are alright.

I sense that you've got alcoholism in your family - those are the only people who are this vehement against drinking. I don't buy the "10 times more likely" to be an alcoholic, because alcoholism is such a subjective disease. Jesus, by the rules that AA puts forth, every person I've ever met is an alcoholic.

- if you've ever been drunk, you're an alcoholic

- if you've ever had more than 2 or 3 beers in one sitting, you're an alcoholic

- if you've ever had a drink more than once a week, you're an alcoholic

- if you've ever craved a cold beer, you're an alcoholic

Its pretty ridiculous. I grew up with a parent in AA and got that **** hammered into my brain all the time.

THEN THAT IS EVEN WORSE!!!

$340/$15=22.667 CASES.

22 x 24= 528

528? That's about 1/4 of the beer that gets drunk at the ES tailgates!!

[Art]

Two things bring me comfort in this thread. Mass is on the other side and Westy is quoting studies he's never read.

Westy, I know the types of parents you refer to with your comments about parents as "friends" and that new-age stuff isn't exactly in my area. I believe parenting requires choices to be made in the upbringing of your children. As I said earlier about this country, not everything can be the devil, less you wind up with a totally maladjusted child who is a timebomb.

The study you put up is pretty weak. Only one line in it is even interesting, but, even that is understood when you read the underlying stud by Hingson, Heeren and Winter. Their study happened to deal with those diagnosed with alcohol dependence issues in the first place at some point in their lives. Such people may have had their first incident of such younger in life. The study doesn't seek to answer why. Bad families, good families, etc.

In any case, I believe you can't responsibly teach your children about the world if your method of parenting is denial in all things. It is your responsibility to help your child understand the impact and how to behave with modest responsibility. My daughter is just over 2. She's a candy-holic. It is impacting her life. She can not focus for any long stretch without thinking about candy. She won't eat without requesting and often demanding candy. She tries to finish dinner early so candy will come out.

It hurts her teeth. Makes her restless. And, I have two choices at this age. Give her what she wants, or, teach her that to get what she wants, criteria must be met. She must put her toys away. She must eat her "good" dinner. She must say please. She must say thank you. It is not enough to want. In the battle of wills that starts now and ends in a couple of decades, I imagine this will be played over with more serious end goals.

Sex. Drugs. Alcohol. As drugs are illegal in this country I can not probably help my child learn their effects and control their intake at my home. I will have to trust parenting will help with that when not in my home. I will teach abstinance, likely by attempting to build up the reward of marriage and possible negative consequences of moving too soon, but, where I have an alcohol view that is lax, my wife has a sex view that will be difficult to counter.

In any case, it is my view it is far better to teach your child to respect alcohol, bargain with them to learn to enjoy using it in small quantities WITH you, knowing they can come ot you about it and you'll understand, than it is to deny them a glass of wine at dinner when they are 14 or 15, or a sip of daddy's beer at a poker game. Hell, the best thing you can do to a kid is give them alcohol EARLY so they think it SUCKS .

But that's a different conversation.

I tend not to put much stock in many medical studies about alcoholism because I don't believe the definitions they use are accurate. Do you view yourself as a binge drinker if you have more than two drinks? Probably not. But, a medical professional might and probably will. This two is a different conversation.

I won't ever seek to be my child's best friend. I will, though, seek to help them understand things better in the areas I can and I won't parent by denying to them things I didn't deny to myself at the same age. Instead, I'll try to do what my father did as it either worked, or, I'm too drunk to tell it didn't.

[Major Harris]

And, I have two choices at this age. Give her what she wants, or, teach her that to get what she wants, criteria must be met.

actually, you have 3 choices, the third being not giving her candy.

[Art]

You must have quoted me by mistake. I posted no studies.

If you think it's okay or a benefit for your children to drink alcoholic beverages at 15 years of age I've got no problem with it....they're your children.

However, if you think it's okay for my children to do so at your house without my knowledge I've got a big problem with it. That is exactly the decision that she made.

Monte,

I agree, completely, with your point about not allowing other children to drink without their parent knowing. I do not even let neighborhood children come over to my house to play with my girls unless their parents call me each time. Most of these, in my case, are little girls 12 and younger, and, in society today, I'm never allowing them inside my house without their parent aware of their location. Some parents have told me it's ok for their girls to come over and play with my girls and I don't need to ask them, as long as I don't mind, and I've told them I will always ask you. Every time.

This woman's problem, really, was in not being open with the parents of the children coming to her house for the party. Many of them would have been fine with things. Many wouldn't. It was their call to make though.

[Art]

actually, you have 3 choices, the third being not giving her candy.

That's true too. I've just never seen a child denied all things by their parents turn out well, so, within reason, I'll find ways to enable my girls to experience things that aren't totally unhealthy. My line in the sand will be on clothing in a few years. Battles there will be epic

[IONTOP]

That's true too. I've just never seen a child denied all things by their parents turn out well, so, within reason, I'll find ways to enable my girls to experience things that aren't totally unhealthy. My line in the sand will be on clothing in a few years. Battles there will be epic

My parents NEVER let me sleep over at anyone else's house because they had a friend(person A) who was sleeping over at someone else's house (person and person b's parents got into an arguement and person b's dad shot and killed his wife and then shot himself...

Therefore I was never allowed to sleep over at anyone's house right about until I was 17... But people could sleep at my house anytime they wanted to...

Kinda hypocritical eh?

[Major Harris]

That's true too. I've just never seen a child denied all things by their parents turn out well, so, within reason, I'll find ways to enable my girls to experience things that aren't totally unhealthy. My line in the sand will be on clothing in a few years. Battles there will be epic

:laugh:

believe me, i know all about picking your battles. it's like a chess match sometimes.

my wife will give birth to our second son in about 6 weeks. even though i always wanted a girl, i'm not disappointed in the least. working in a middle school, i can see the battles that you're up against down the road art. god bless you.

[NattyLight]

"Oh my God, alcohol is the devil and it will destroy are youth AND our society"

Yours truly, the US Government.

That's why folks think that it is inherently wrong. But you know and I know that enjoying beer and wine in a controlled, supervised setting...wait, is that wrong? If (this is a big if) the drinking age WAS 16....or we, as a society didn't criminalize it...do you think we'd have a ****ing issue?

No other country in the world is more Draconian about drinking age than the US; no one. But who has more drinking problems than 90% of the globe. It's like God telling Adam and Eve to NOT eat off the tree of knowledge...of course they're going to ****ing do it. Because kids are human and have a tendency to rebel.

Bottom line: if the government didn't make a big deal about...they wouldn't ****ing have too.

Look, I'm not saying I'm condoning her actions, she's not a moron, or anything of that nature. Hell, I wouldn't put my self in the position she did for reasons other than the sentencing. WHat I am saying though is that America and her states need to get their ****ing priorities straight. Period.

[jrockster21]

I tend not to put much stock in many medical studies about alcoholism because I don't believe the definitions they use are accurate. Do you view yourself as a binge drinker if you have more than two drinks? Probably not. But, a medical professional might and probably will. This two is a different conversation.

Exactly. If two beers is binge drinking, then every person I've ever known is an alchy. (Slight exaggeration, but not by much. )

[Destino]

27 months is too long. This is longer then the preachers wife got for shooting her husband in the back. She should have gotten a long community service sentance and maybe a good fine. Non-violent criminals in which no one was hurt should not be sitting in prison for more then 2 years.'

Shockingly I agree with most of what Art has said in this thread.

[jrockster21]

chom's post

Wow...a chomerics sighting! :laugh:

[PleaseBlitz]

Well, that makes sense. Based off of your small sample size and I'm sure sterling memory of college, you'd be willing to subject your kids to much greater odds of becoming alcoholics, based off of no **** research and studies.

Responses like this make me wish there was an IQ test required for procreation.

Your statistics that you posted were garbage. Just look at the source.

Hey, do you realize that alcoholism is genetic? Maybe that has something to do with it.

Responses like this always reaffirm my position when i know that Westy is on the opposite side.

Well, since it worked out just fine with you, I guess you are assuming that it is 100 percent odds that your kids will turn out fine if they drink at 15, even though countless studies say the chances are the exact opposite.

Countless studies? :laugh: You mean 1?

What, YOU are going to tell people how to parent? Give me a break.

[70th Week]

In any case, it is my view it is far better to teach your child to respect alcohol, bargain with them to learn to enjoy using it in small quantities WITH you, knowing they can come ot you about it and you'll understand, than it is to deny them a glass of wine at dinner when they are 14 or 15, or a sip of daddy's beer at a poker game. Hell, the best thing you can do to a kid is give them alcohol EARLY so they think it SUCKS .

1) Alcohol ruins lives....point blank. I don't think you can think of one profitable reason to consume alcohol ( and don't play the medical card cause there is plenty of medication to substitute for alcohol )

2) When you show your children its okay to consume alcohol how much greater chance later on is there for them to leave the bar or a friends house after consuming a few beers and get on the road and drive? 1 beer can alter your reflexes enough to kill not only yourself but INNOCENT people on the road.

3) Sip daddy's beer? I would never drink around my children or any children.

[81artmonk]

1) Alcohol ruins lives....point blank. I don't think you can think of one profitable reason to consume alcohol ( and don't play the medical card cause there is plenty of medication to substitute for alcohol )

2) When you show your children its okay to consume alcohol how much greater chance later on is there for them to leave the bar or a friends house after consuming a few beers and get on the road and drive? 1 beer can alter your reflexes enough to kill not only yourself but INNOCENT people on the road.

3) Sip daddy's beer? I would never drink around my children or any children.

Here, here!! Someone with reason in this thread. I can't believe people believe the thought pattern of, letting their kids participate in illegal, immoral and illecite behavior in order to overt danger. Blows my mind and scares me for the future of our children.

[Mass_SkinsFan]

That's why folks think that it is inherently wrong. But you know and I know that enjoying beer and wine in a controlled, supervised setting...wait, is that wrong? If (this is a big if) the drinking age WAS 16....or we, as a society didn't criminalize it...do you think we'd have a ****ing issue?

Actually, my personal reason for disliking alcohol is the altered state of mind it creates and the lack of responsibility that people who drink it are held to in this society. I'd be all for going back to the Prohibition Era if we're not actually going to hold people responsible for their actions related to the consumption of this crap.

No other country in the world is more Draconian about drinking age than the US; no one. But who has more drinking problems than 90% of the globe. It's like God telling Adam and Eve to NOT eat off the tree of knowledge...of course they're going to ****ing do it. Because kids are human and have a tendency to rebel.

LOL. We may have a law about the drinking age but we aren't Draconian about anything related to it. When's the last time before this that you saw someone actually PUNISHED for serving a minor? I'm sure that most of the posters here can tell stories of drinking before age 21 and not even being concerned about getting caught. Talk to me about Draconian measures when we have jails full of drunks serving life sentences. Until then, cry me a river.

Look, I'm not saying I'm condoning her actions, she's not a moron, or anything of that nature. Hell, I wouldn't put my self in the position she did for reasons other than the sentencing. WHat I am saying though is that America and her states need to get their ****ing priorities straight. Period.

Yep. We need to start punishing MORAL crimes at least as severely (and probably more severely) than any other class of crimes out there. Until we start PUNISHING people for **** like this, it will just keep getting worse.