Offense 2007: Is this Saunders or Gibbs Offense???

[JC girl]

I think Saunders system will work much better this year, with all the players being used to it and coming to accept it, as well as having a QB who can actually throw the ball, which will allow him to use the whole playbook and not have to tailor it around Mark Brunell...ugh

[Drex]

This will definitely be one of the key storylines for the upcoming season. The ability of Gibbs and Saunders to mesh their offensive philosophies will go a long way towards determining how successful this offense will be.

[James Moss]

That's not what really happened—Gibbs, Saunders and Buges know that. Comments by Saunders towards the end of the year indicated that they were the same plays, guys just decided to start blocking, that's all. The term “Redskins Football” was just an internal battle cry within the locker room. Code meaning "toughen up and run the ball more". The team didn’t revert back to a red-yellow-blue-whatever name system with the old plays from the previous year. It was still Saunders numbered plays but with a greater emphasis being placed on the Saunders running plays. It was an attitude adjustment . Guys weren’t executing so they reviewed the plays that worked best and stuck with those for the remainder of the season… and then Gibbs followed with his “Redskins Football” battle cry to use as a motivational tool and to some extent it worked. Am I wrong?

[TheismannQuote]

I place a fair share of the blame of our flacid offense on Mark Brunell. The first nine games were irritating to watch...the dink and dunk passes to the flat, the shaky knees and early collapses in the pocket, the offense as a whole was hindered due to Brunell's aged body. The 2-5 record Campbell led showed flashes but undeniably was faulted by our poor defensive play. Have no fear fellow skins fans, Gibbs and Co. will right this ship!~~~

[Skinsfor4]

I think we will see Als offense produce alot more this year,and will only get better as JC matures,we have to keep him here,hes good for our team.

[Warpath11]

Pretty good thread here on a very similar discussion...

http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?t=199468&page=1&pp=15

[jthor99]

I think the offense is really going to explode under Coach Saunders this year. I think alot of people are forgetting that when Saunders was in KC he loved to run the football. Which infact opened up the passing game. WHAT DO YOU KNOW???? Last time i checked thats how offenses are supposed to work. If we establish a solid running game out of the gate i can guarantee everything else will fall into place. We just have to hope that we stay healthy on the O line and if we do stay healthy to block well.

[GURU]

Realistically, we should have expected a period of adjustment as Saunders came aboard. His track record tells us as much -- that players, not just quarterbacks, need a good solid year to become familiar with the playbook and the philosophy.

But there were additional circumstances to account for, as well. First, Gibbs is still one of the great offensive minds of the game, despite the spotty results in his return to the game, so far. I think Gibbs was starting to get a feel for the modern NFL as the Skins made their playoff run after the '05 season. However, injuries at the time severely limited what the Skins were able to execute on offense. Brunell was banged up. Portis was banged up. And the O-line, well, we won't speak of the Seattle game. Gibbs was criticized for his playcalling, but I believe his super-conservative playcalling was an effort to stem outright disaster given the overall health of his players. I can't blame him, under those circumstances.

I don't believe Gibbs added Saunders to the staff because he felt he wasn't up to the task of leading the offense. Rather, it was a move with an eye to the future. I don't think Gibbs will coach beyond his 5-year contract, and adding Saunders gives the Skins the potential for continuity after Gibbs re-retires.

Also, I think Gibbs relished the idea of working with a fellow Don Coryell disciple. They share a common language and terminology, so the thought was that brainstorming sessions would come easy and ideas would just flow out.

The difficulty in establishing an offensive identity for the Skins came because of different philosophies. Gibbs' offensive philosophy is to STRETCH the field vertically: that is, to draw defenses towards the line-of-scrimmage to stop the run, then pass over the top of that compressed defense. Since Gibbs retired the first time, more and more defenses have implemented schemes that sold out to stop the run. Aggresive fronts and zone coverages have both limited the run and the big plays that were the hallmarks of Gibbs offense during his first tenure. It's become a passing league out of neccessity.

Saunders has been developing his offense during the time Gibbs was retired. His philosophy is to SPREAD the field, that is, to stretch defenses horizontally and created running lanes and passing seams in the defense. Whereas Gibbs would run the ball until you committed enough players to stop it, Saunders wants the defense to be guessing, every play, whether it's going to be a run or a pass. Although Gibbs has always preached balance, his ideal would be to run the ball 40 times and pass 20. Saunders, on the other hand, would prefer something closer to a true 50/50 split.

Gibbs and Joe Bugle still have old school mentalities -- they like to fool you, but there's also an element of gamemanship to them: Here's what we're going to do -- try and stop it. Saunders is more cerebral and wants defenses guessing all the time.

So another hurdle is how these two great offensive minds are going to meld their philosphies. Some might see only conflict. But I see great potential for a new offensive movement. The pendulum is always swinging in the NFL. Right now, it's a passing league. Offenses are built to pass the ball. Defenses are built to stop the pass. I think there's a door open for the power running game to return to the NFL. But you still have to be able to move the ball through the air, regardless. Sometimes, you gotta be able to pass just to keep the chains moving. I think Gibbs and Saunders can be a great team. They have to trust each other, though. Gibbs has to trust Saunders as a playcaller, and Saunders has to learn from Gibbs while building gameplans. However, another factor came into play that limited that growth in trust: the quarterback situation.

First, Brunell has never been a classic dropback quarterback. And despite playing most of his career in a Bill Walsh-style West Coast Offense, timing has never been a strongpoint. He's always been a guy who makes plays with his feet. His tendency has always to been to buy time with his athleticism and let pass plays develop downfield. If receivers don't get open, then he would dump off a pass to his outlet receiver. That's the way he's always operated, even in Jacksonville when he was in his prime. While age has severly limited Brunell in this capacity, those tendencies worked in Gibbs offense because Gibbs could design the same type of plays he did for Joe Theismann. But it doesn't work well with Saunders' offense

One of the basic tenets of Saunders offense is having the quarterback get rid of the ball quickly, in rhythm. That's what allows him to spread the field, yet still protect the quarterback. But Brunell never could get a consistent feel for the rhythm. Instead of realeasing the ball as soon as he completed his drop--as the plays are drawn up--he would pause. And just that momentary pause would mess up the timing of the pass patterns and cause protection to break down. In the past, Brunell could compensate with his athleticism. That's no longer the case, but it's still how Brunell tries to play. It simply ingrained in him. And it was an endless source of frustration for Saunders.

And bringing in Campbell brought a whole new set of issues. Essentailly, Saunders had to throw out most of his playbook and simplify it for an inexperienced quarterback. I think THAT was the reason for the surge in the running game, more than any kind of conflict between Gibbs and Saunders. In fact, I'm sure they were quite on the same page, as far as that goes -- run the ball and limit the chances for mistakes from a young QB.

So my short answer is that it is Saunders' offense, with plenty of input from Joe Gibbs. If Campbell has made as much progress as what's been reported, we may actually get to see Al Saunders' passing offense this coming season for the first time in Washington.

[StepyagameuP]

It's the Gibders offense - Gibbs scheme with Saunders plays!!

Exactly..plus Gibbs calling the plays..I guess the same thing as saying Gibbs scheme. moohahaha

[LifelongSkinsFan]

Guru: what a GREAT summation! Post of the week!

[Horatio]

This is the big problem with the entire organization. No chain of command, and no clear direction on either side of the ball.

That's just the way Danny Boy wants it...that way no one can gain too much power to challenge him.

[Peregrine]

Up until now, Saunders has never had full control over the offense. Even in the first half of last season, it wasnt really Saunders offense. This year, I think JG will let Saunders exercise almost full control over the offense(and as such, I think you see a marked improvement). What was done in the past hasnt worked so, why not go in a new direction towards proven success? I think Gibbs does that this season(yes, hes been slow to make changes, but he doesnt always make the right ones).

[FuriousD]

Guru: what a GREAT summation! Post of the week!

Agreed!! Very nice GURU.

It seems logical to think that if Gibbs will have heavy involvement in the gameplanning of Saunders offense it will be the selection of running plays. Primarily power running plays.

Betts power running gave the offense the shot in the arm they needed and a focus for the gameplan. I would love to see them pick up where they left off.

If this years offense is clicking as suspected we should see more of Saunders famous screen plays, something largely missing from '06, probably due to the intricasies of timing them properly.

[earl]

Al Saunders and Joe Gibbs are the same animal. The fact is no first year offense has a shot. Year 2 may be another story for the 2007 Redskins. Brunell was a huge mistake. Campbell will bridge the gap. The real question is can Clinton return to form early, and given Betts' ability, should Gibb's first move have been trading Portis for Bailey.

no first year offense huh? how bout a new coach, and new starting qb. Thats right the saints did it. so why is it crazy to think a veteran team w/ returning key starters under a new coach from the same coaching tree could look good. I hear what your saying but i'm tired of excuses, especially excuses that imply "wait til next year." Every year is wait until next year, because we always have new pieces

[dinzelwashington]

This is the big problem with the entire organization. No chain of command, and no clear direction on either side of the ball.

I don't see how you can just fire Al now.....not that Gibbs would even want to take over the offense again. I think we have to let Al go for the first 6 games or so, and see what happens. The same goes with Williams.

After the midway point of the season, if the locker room is still lost on the defensive side of the ball....Gregg is going to have to hit the road.

On the offensive side, if we start 2-6 or something similiar, Al is going to have to go also....and we will need to find a new coach. That would probably include Gibbs as well, unless he actually wants to start coaching again. The way this staff is set up right now is a nightmare.

u cant use this plan on our offense or defensive coach. this was a plan for mark brunell and only mark brunell. if campbell took lead not after 8 games but rather maybe the start of the season, we could have gone farther then we did.. i know gibbs. he is the boss, every boss needs assistant or they be screwed. if gibbs would go with your rplan, then might as well fire gibbs too. or gibbs might even retire himself. he didnt put this crew together then just drop them. gibbs is a winner. hes doing whatever it takes to win, until he/we win, hes going to get an contract extension just to take this team to the promise and and win it. one thing i know gibbs is not a quitter. he will beat the media and tell them, live up to ur words. walk butt naked.. i say we go 11-5 and make the playoffs..hail

[Califan007 The Constipated]

So my short answer is that it is...

:laugh: :laugh:

Great post, though...lol :applause:

[Califan007 The Constipated]

By the way, with what Cooley was saying about being "lightyears" ahead of where he was this time last offseason, feeling as if he knows automatically where he's supposed to be and what he's supposed to be doing, I'm going to assume that it's still indeed Saunders' offense they're running...

[AceSkinsFan]

In all honesty, at the end of the day as long as we're winning does it really matter who's offense it is? I didn't really think getting Saunders was necessary at first, but reality is he's here to stay. Whatever gives us the "W" is all that really matters to me...

[SASKINTOTHEEND]

I think Al Saunders is a great offensive coach and this year might produce a terrifying offense with his 700 sumi page playbook, but like I've posted before, I would really love to see Joe Gibbs running style of down their throats type of football.:2cents: :2cents:

[Philip Pease]

Great post Guru.

If you look at the offensive play during the first half of last season the OL was really struggling with the new offense. They were very tentative and were not blocking as we know they are capable.

I think that Joe Gibbs wanted to give Al complete control; but with half the season gone he could not allow the struggling offense to continue. I think Joe realized that the OL needed to do more of what they were so successful at during their fantastic string of wins the previous season and decided to suggest that change to Al. After that change the OL improved greatly and the whole offense gained in confidence.

We will be running Al's offense; but if Joe feels they are struggling then he will be quicker to offer suggestions to get the team back on track.

[Hooper]

I imagine it will be a slightly more conservative version of Al's offense.

And I hope that the chain of command is smoother this year. I love Gibbs, but for three years now the sideline has look confused as hell and clock management has been terrible -- too many cooks.

[ConcordNCSkinsFan]

The problem I saw with Gibbs and Saunders was not only their differences as far as philosophies but what type of player each wants. I don't get the sense that Saunders is too crazy about Portis, prefering Betts and we all know he wanted Collins in the lineup last yearat QB. Gibbs was married to Brunell of course and he has always put up with Portis eccentric side. I think they both have found common ground with Campbell at QB with Gibbs always loving his potential and Saunders warming up to him based on the end of last season and his work during this offseason. I also think Gibbs is leaning more and more toward Saunders thinking as far as Betts and Portis go. Portis may want the staff to hold him out during preseason like he whined about last year, but he needs to reestablish himself as a top back in the league instead of being known more for making outrageous comments.

[revallenjr]

Al Saunders gets it done this year. Come on people. He is the air apparent. Jump on the bandwagon.

I'm behind you:applause: