Dirk Diggler Posted March 17, 2007 Share Posted March 17, 2007 I recall back in 2004, the great debate about KW2 vs. Sean Taylor. The argument from the Winslow camp was that if he was available, we had to draft him for 3 reasons: he was the best player in the draft, he was going to revolutionize the TE position, and complete what should be a top flight Redskin offense. I think you could substitute WR and Calvin Johnson and you have the Winslow camp all over again. 3 years ago, would Winslow (injuries aside) have actually completed that offense? No. In fact, it would have still been in the bottom of the NFL because Brunell wasn't able to capture the magic he had in Jville, Gardner was on his way to becoming a bust, and Coles was a malcontent. The faces at WR have changed over the past 2 years but the results are still anywhere from poor to mediocre. I think we're in better shape now personnel-wise because we have players who have demonstrated success AS REDSKINS and that can't be downplayed. Cooley, Portis, Moss, and the Oline have all done it in the B&G. But that fact remains, Jason Campbell has not. That's why, while Calvin Johnson may be the best player in the draft, he won't be revolutionizing anything and this offense won't get out of the garage unless the QB comes through. Calvin Johnson doesn't complete this offense, only Jason Campbell can do that. I have no doubt that a player like CJ would be an asset to any QB. But he's not going to make Campbell a success if he's destined to be just another so-so QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
909997 Posted March 17, 2007 Share Posted March 17, 2007 can we just get Campbell to revolutionize his position? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ceviker Posted March 17, 2007 Share Posted March 17, 2007 While I see your point, a great TE and a game-changing WR are completl different things. What this team lacks is a big RZ target and threat and a man to go down the middle of the field and move the chains, a possesion reciever in essence. We don't have one at all. Lloyd was supposed to be that - and hopefully he can be, but I don't think so. CJ is ungodly. What people don't realize is that he put up those great numbers with a ****ty ass QB. He's a monster plain and simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrypticVillain Posted March 17, 2007 Share Posted March 17, 2007 In 2005 we had a playoff defense and a so so offense, in 2006 we had a so-so offense and a college level defense. We need all the help we can get on that side. Defense is top priority in any sports. And for the last time Calvin Johson is going to the Bucs. They are not stupid enough to let him slip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeGibbsThickandthin Posted March 17, 2007 Share Posted March 17, 2007 TRADE UP FOR Calvin Johnson. The difference between Winslow and Calvin is 4-3 Calvin Johnson is going to be the Kobe Bryant of his sport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzmuda Posted March 17, 2007 Share Posted March 17, 2007 I see what you're saying and I agree that QB play is the single-most important factor in determining a team's chances to win. And if you've got a franchise QB like Manning or Brady you don't need to load up on weapons as that QB will make players around him better. Unfortunately we don't know if Campbell will ever be that level of QB. Odds are he won't. It wouldn't be the best idea to draft as if he not only would attain that level, but that he was already currently at that level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
909997 Posted March 17, 2007 Share Posted March 17, 2007 wasnt charles rogers post to be the next jerry rice? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzmuda Posted March 17, 2007 Share Posted March 17, 2007 wasnt charles rogers post to be the next jerry rice? Wasn't Charles Rogers supposed to be the next Jerry Rice? How does the evaluation of Charles Rogers in comparison with the production of Jerry Rice have anything to do with the evaluation of Calvin Johnson? Answer: NOTHING Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
909997 Posted March 17, 2007 Share Posted March 17, 2007 How does the evaluation of Charles Rogers in comparison with the production of Jerry Rice have anything to do with the evaluation of Calvin Johnson?Answer: NOTHING I remm last year everyone wanted mike williams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzmuda Posted March 17, 2007 Share Posted March 17, 2007 I remm last year everyone wanted mike williams. Not everyone wanted Mike Williams. You're remembering incorrectly. Also, what does Mike Williams have to do with Calvin Johnson? Answer: NOTHING Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MPASkinsFan Posted March 17, 2007 Share Posted March 17, 2007 I don't like KWII and am glad we didn't take him, but the jury is still out on him....and, if he had someone other than Charlie Frye throwing to him, who knows what he's capable of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottb Posted March 17, 2007 Share Posted March 17, 2007 Mentioning Mike Williams & Charles Rogers is a legitmate point....Which is, there are no guarenteed stars in any draft. Eveything at this juction is speculation & hope. I would love CJ, but I can't say I'd be shocked if he washed out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzmuda Posted March 17, 2007 Share Posted March 17, 2007 Mentioning Mike Williams & Charles Rogers is a legitmate point....Which is, there are no guarenteed stars in any draft. Eveything at this juction is speculation & hope. I would love CJ, but I can't say I'd be shocked if he washed out. Mentioning those two is a totally invalid point. They have as much to do with CJ as Mel Torme has to do with Condoleeza Rice. The only way it is "valid" is if you believe the best indicator of future performance by player X is the past performance of player Y and Z where the only similarities between players X, Y, and Z is height. If so, oy vey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipwhich Posted March 17, 2007 Share Posted March 17, 2007 Mentioning those two is a totally invalid point. They have as much to do with CJ as Mel Torme has to do with Condoleeza Rice. The only way it is "valid" is if you believe the best indicator of future performance by player X is the past performance of player Y and Z where the only similarities between players X, Y, and Z is height. If so, oy vey. Uh no....the point is the draft is a crapshoot and there is no sure thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagletooth Posted March 17, 2007 Share Posted March 17, 2007 KW2 had good workouts but didn't set the world on fire, and already had some red flags in terms of character. CJ completely seperated himself, with his workout numbers, from the entire draft class. And is considered to be a high character guy too. I think you are way off the mark, trying to compare the two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsFTW Posted March 17, 2007 Share Posted March 17, 2007 I think that we should get him if he really is the best player in the draft but they can't know that. The problem is that this team has already spent more money on the WR position than most of the other positions combined. Moss, Randel El, Lloyd all make #1 receiver money, Patten/Thrash make #2 receiver money and Cooley will make more than some of them before next year. They really need to draft DL, where signing a vet will be expensive for any team, not just the Redskins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzmuda Posted March 17, 2007 Share Posted March 17, 2007 Uh no....the point is the draft is a crapshoot and there is no sure thing. Saying it's a crapshoot is certainly overstating the case. If the draft was truly a crapshoot then a first-rounder would be worth no more than a seventh-rounder since each pick would be as likely to net you a pro-bowler. But since the draft is not a crapshoot first-round picks are worth more than seventh-round picks. While there may be no sure thing, picking higher means that you have more players available to you that will eventually be pro-bowlers. And just because the consensus was right or wrong in the past has absolutely no bearing on whether the consensus will be right or wrong in the future. Another example, if someone guesses heads or tails correctly 60% of the time does that mean if they guess heads next time that the coin has a 60% chance of coming up heads? Of course not, the odds of the coin coming up heads or tail is independent of guesses of its outcome. The same with player evaluation. Just because consensus was wrong in the past on big WRs does not mean its wrong this time on a big WR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkart Posted March 17, 2007 Share Posted March 17, 2007 Wasn't a lot of this said about Braylon Edwards (spelling ?) also ?, from what I remember, not all, but a lot of what's being said of CJ was said about Edwards too. :2cents: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Portis N Pals Posted March 17, 2007 Share Posted March 17, 2007 I think there is less than a 1% chance that CJ is there when we pick. But i will say this, putting CJ in the same sentence with Mike Williams or Charles Rogers is just silly. Why? Not because of his numbers, all 3 put up great stats. But there WERE character issues/concerns with MW or CR, there are ZERO with CJ. Plus, MW and CR had solid to great QBs throwing them the ball, CJ did not. If you play FF, trust me, you want to draft CJ. Worst case scenerio, you're looking at the next Fitzgerald. Best case, perhaps the next G.O.A.T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Tomb Posted March 17, 2007 Share Posted March 17, 2007 For those of us who don't know...what does G.O.A.T. stand for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkart Posted March 17, 2007 Share Posted March 17, 2007 For those of us who don't know...what does G.O.A.T. stand for? Greatest Of All Time!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsFTW Posted March 17, 2007 Share Posted March 17, 2007 Worst case scenerio, you're looking at the next Fitzgerald. Best case, perhaps the next G.O.A.T. I think it will depend on who is the QB and the offense in general. If he goes to a team like Miami or Cleveland he may just be another 60-70 catch 5TD guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonArtest15 Posted March 17, 2007 Share Posted March 17, 2007 Mentioning Mike Williams & Charles Rogers is a legitmate point....Which is, there are no guarenteed stars in any draft. Eveything at this juction is speculation & hope. I would love CJ, but I can't say I'd be shocked if he washed out. I don't think you all realize how good CJ is....look at the #'s he put up at GT, with arguably the WORST D1 starting QB in Reggie Ball...REGGIE BALL...I would have loved to see what CJ could have done with having the luxury of an actual REAL QB throwing him the ball like Carson Palmer/Matt Leinart (BMW) and Jeff Smoker (Charles Rogers).....again, you have to take in to consideration how bad a QB Reggie Ball was, and how CJ made the best of not only bad QB play, but horrible play calling from Gailey as well...this guy should have gotten the ball more than he did, but he never complained, and just went about his business....the hype surrounding this guy is for real, and I wouldn't be shocked at all to see him in Hawaii next year on a pro bowl squad... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzmuda Posted March 17, 2007 Share Posted March 17, 2007 Wasn't a lot of this said about Braylon Edwards (spelling ?) also, from what I remember, not all but a lot of what's being said of CJ was said about Edwards too. :2cents: :rubeyes: :doh: :whippin: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeaconBlue Posted March 17, 2007 Share Posted March 17, 2007 Why is this so hard for you Bob? No one is saying that CJ is going to be a bust. Rather that based on previous experience that players surrounded by this much hype rarely live up to that hype.In other words there have been a long littany of players that were supposed to be once in a lifetime players who over time came to be average players at best. Will this happen to CJ? NO ONE knows but history teaches us that even he isn't a sure thing. According you however the past can teach us nothing. If experience isn't worth learning from, pray tell, what on this earth is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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