FuriousD Posted February 11, 2007 Share Posted February 11, 2007 Question for old timers. I don't remember much about Richie's style of D beyond his use of the 4-3 as a base defense. What was Richie's defensive philosophy? I don't remember it as a passive flex style. He was agressive, I think. Lent more toward man coverage than zone. I do remember hearing that he was very hard on young or inexperienced QB's, throwing everything and the kitchen sink at them. Williams has always said that he is a disciple of Buddy Ryans and the 46 D (although you wouldn't know it from last year). Ryan and Petibon were winning Superbowls in the same era. There was never suggestion, to my knowledge, that Petibon ever employed Ryan's version of the 4-3. So what was Petibon's style? Anyone remember? Thanks in advance! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie_Babar Posted February 11, 2007 Share Posted February 11, 2007 Then you should be calm. And if ignorance were bliss, you'd be ecstatic. TK is a mean jacka.s.s. All the rules on this site are a f.ckin joke. You are always busting balls of the other members for their thoughts and then ban people for mocking that. TK I bet you sit around all day every day typing little stupid messages on this site and think you are so powerful because you were made a mod. GET OVER YOURSELF ALREADY!!!! Most of the threads on here are stupid childish little thoughts....people who speculate on Mike Vick or Fred Smoot coming to the skins or Portis being traded....what a joke. TK really thinks he is the Redskins #1 fan because he has no life outside of this web site. Sits around on his fat a.s.s typing thousands of silly messages onto this lame site. I bet TK is 5'8" 280lbs and was picked on ruthlessly as a child because he was such a freak. Now he hides behind the anonymity of this web site for protection as he wields his silly power of banning members who he doesn't like. Good luck TK, you stupid f.ckin moron. You will never amount to anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuriousD Posted February 11, 2007 Author Share Posted February 11, 2007 Now where's that thread highjack alert button? hmmmm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo-toni Posted February 11, 2007 Share Posted February 11, 2007 Now where's that thread highjack alert button? hmmmm Really! WTF was that rant???? Ban Him!!! Petitbon was a defensive genius, and a disciple of George Allen, for whom he'd played under, first with the Rams, and later the Skins. His schemes were aggressive, but most importantly, like Gibbs I, he was the league's greatest master at halftime adjustments. If you want proof of how good he was, look at what the Skins did to Buffalo in their last SB win. They blitzed right at Thurman Thomas, taking him out of the game as a hot read because he had to stay in to block. Then they used a play they'd come up with on the bus where the blitzer faked in one direction to take Thomas away from the real blitzer, who nailed Kelly. The SB against Denver was equally impressive once they made some adjustments after giving up a TD on a long bomb the first play from scrimmage. Williams also employs a lot of George Allen stuff in his schemes, which he got I believe thru Pardee who coached the Oilers briefly after being fired from here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsHokieFan Posted February 11, 2007 Share Posted February 11, 2007 Not an old timer, but from what I remember of the 1991 D, it was a very aggressive attacking D RiggoToni makes a great point with regards to Superbowl 26, that was a defensive masterpiece on our part Not only with the bltizing, but with utterly destroying the Bills WRs. By the end of the game they all had alligator arms from getting nailed so many times by Brad Edwards and Danny Copeland One thing I remember, nobody ever ran on that D, ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tr1 Posted February 11, 2007 Share Posted February 11, 2007 It was stop the run first...at all costs. Lots of single man coverage by our strongest CB. And, the other philosophy was to stop their best offensive player...let the other team beat you with their second and third best players... We also had DEs that put on pressure...in other words, a formidable front four. That's why you didn't see too many Skins in other teams' highlight reels of their best players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick F. Posted February 11, 2007 Share Posted February 11, 2007 THis is depressing. Petibon then got thrown under the bus. The team he inherited from Gibbs was too old and Cooke and Casserly decided it was time to bring in the youth and not pay for players and Petibon failed miserably. I just hope this isn't foreboding, this time without the super bowl wins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MustangSteve Posted February 11, 2007 Share Posted February 11, 2007 Petibon had some great schemes, alot of window dressing making Qb's wonder where the blitz would come from. He preached gang tackeling, attack the line of scrimage and the main reason his defense was good through all his years was because he kept them together for many years. He got his core group of men and kept them together for 7 years, our linebacker core was together for 7 freeking years, with linemen like Mann, Butz and corners like Green. Imagine if GW would have kept our 2004 and 2005 defense together that long. Instead we cant even keep many good players one year now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Tater Posted February 11, 2007 Share Posted February 11, 2007 Petibon only coached an above average defense 4 times during his time as DC with Gibbs, two were SB-winning teams (1982, 1991) but two were not even for playoff teams (1981, 1989). One of his worst defenses went to the SB (1987) while another went to the championship game (1986). Petibon's genius was calling with the right defense at the right time--in 1991, it was often like he told the opposing OC what to call so his defense could stop it. Like his mentor, he played combo coverages (cover 2 man under for instance) and loved to get to the nickel and dime packages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seabee1973 Posted February 11, 2007 Share Posted February 11, 2007 Not an old timer, but from what I remember of the 1991 D, it was a very aggressive attacking DRiggoToni makes a great point with regards to Superbowl 26, that was a defensive masterpiece on our part Not only with the bltizing, but with utterly destroying the Bills WRs. By the end of the game they all had alligator arms from getting nailed so many times by Brad Edwards and Danny Copeland One thing I remember, nobody ever ran on that D, ever. Randel Cunningham sure did Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Tater Posted February 11, 2007 Share Posted February 11, 2007 Randel Cunningham sure did A lot of teams ran on those defenses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yomar The Nifty Posted February 12, 2007 Share Posted February 12, 2007 Scheme wise the Skins ran a lot of man and a fair bit of zone but it didn't seem that esoteric or complex. The Cover 2 of the Giants killed the Skins, but the Skins didn't run it very much if at all. The D was always good and had its fair share of big plays and stops, but it wasn't dominant. Wilbur Marshall really added something to the D but was somewhat underappreciated nationally because his role was more restrained than it was with the Bears. I don't know how much or what kind of zones they played, but Petibon was a very solid coach who if I had to characterize would say he played a smart game of percentages. His biggest distinguishing factor from other DCs was his extensive use of situational substitution. I also remember being frustrated by the conservative approach, especially at the end of games when leads were blown. Not a dominant defense but it won its fair share and they made plenty of big game changing plays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CM916 Posted February 12, 2007 Share Posted February 12, 2007 Looking at the numbers, I have always wondered why Petibon going 3-13 his first season as HC meant the end of his career whereas Norv's 3-13 was followed by five more years as our coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bschurm Posted February 12, 2007 Share Posted February 12, 2007 Randel Cunningham sure did I don't know what you were watching, but very rarely did Randal Cunningham ever run all over the Redskins. We were the one team that contained him better than most. That isn't to say that he didn't break one now and again, but rarely against us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulldog Posted February 12, 2007 Share Posted February 12, 2007 Petitbon was very good at taking a player's specific talents and using them in a way that contributed best to the performance of the defense. Let's face it, during Gibbs first tenure, the one Hall of Fame caliber player on defense was Darrell Green. Charles Mann and Dexter Manley were pro bowlers, but taken over the first 10 years, Petitbon did not have the raw talent on D that Gibbs had on the offensive side of the ball. But Petitbon managed to put together winning defenses that got the key turnovers and prevented other teams from scoring in close when the game was on the line. One of the best aspects of Petitbon's defense was to realize that with Darrell Green on one side he was always going to have a mismatch at corner on the other side, where teams would try and exploit the #2. So, Petitbon had Green shadow the other teams' top receivers one on one and then rolled zone to the other side to give the Barry Wilburns and Martin Mayhews deep safety help. In other words, he recognized that both of his corners were not equal in talent. Gregg Williams' scheme pretends that both corners can do the same job. He doesn't flip flop them, keeping both on their side of the field regardless of the receivers lining up opposite them. The one game last season where the Redskins didn't do that against Carolina, Springs shut Steve Smith down pretty well and the Panthers were not able to get anything going offensively against the Redskins down the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMK9973 Posted February 12, 2007 Share Posted February 12, 2007 Someone else said it - He called the right defenses at the right time. They were never great (except 1991), they were always good. As for Head coaching - He didn't get thrown under the bus - He wasn't head coach material. He was in over his head. The one season he ran the team he was the one that kept saying, over and over again "Judge me on my final record". Well - his final record was 4-12. 2 years removed from the SB, and 1 year removed from a team that won a playoff game, he went 4-12! He lost control halfway through the season - About a dozen players refused to pay their union dues on the fact that VA is a right to work state. He couldn't control the players he lost the team. Ever wonder why he use to be on everyone lists of canidates and then was never hired again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jive_crankin Posted February 12, 2007 Share Posted February 12, 2007 I don't remember much about Petibons coaching style. I wonder what he's doing now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Harris Posted February 12, 2007 Share Posted February 12, 2007 A lot of teams ran on those defenses. i think shf was speaking specifically of the '91 defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PiLfan Posted February 12, 2007 Share Posted February 12, 2007 i think shf was speaking specifically of the '91 defense. Probably...the '91 team had an excellent run defense. Emmitt Smith was the only rusher to really give them problems that year (but then again, he gave everyone problems). Randall Cunningham was hurt that year so he never even played against the skins. As for other years, the early 80s skins teams were even better against the run than that 91 team (those defenses were much weaker against the pass, however, especially the 83 team). Remember, we had Dave Butz in the middle, and a lot of teams didn't even try to run up the gut on us with him in there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo-toni Posted February 12, 2007 Share Posted February 12, 2007 2 years removed from the SB, and 1 year removed from a team that won a playoff game, he went 4-12!He lost control halfway through the season - About a dozen players refused to pay their union dues on the fact that VA is a right to work state. What you apparently have forgotten is that his first year was also the first year of the salary cap. The Skins payroll was 40% higher than what the cap was set at. Cooke was in fact the only owner who voted against the cap, and the Skins players rebelled against the NFLPA not because of Petitbon, but because they were actually far better off financially BEFORE free agency. There was a mass exodus of players long before the season even started. The team Petitbon inherited had almost nothing left from previous years, and the fiasco was more the fault of Casserly than anyone else - something which he has even since admitted. For example, Gary Clark and Ricky Sanders were gone, leaving us with an old Monk and Gibbs-bust Desmond Howard. Petitbon's one glaring error was putting Rod Dowhower in charge of the offense, and falling in love with the WCO, for which we didn't have the personnel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsHokieFan Posted February 12, 2007 Share Posted February 12, 2007 i think shf was speaking specifically of the '91 defense. On the money as always MH I do remember though the clutchness of that D The playoff game in SF in 1990, the D played as best as it could against one of the best offenses in the NFL. Ryp's INT's killed us that day The 1991 run was one of the best ever, completely shutting down Atl and Detroit, and up until Buffalo got 2 meaningless scores in the 4th quarter, the D had only given up 27 points in 3 playoff games Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rskins06 Posted February 12, 2007 Share Posted February 12, 2007 I don't know what you were watching, but very rarely did Randal Cunningham ever run all over the Redskins. We were the one team that contained him better than most. That isn't to say that he didn't break one now and again, but rarely against us. No, but I do remember Joe Morris killing us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HailSkinz1 Posted February 12, 2007 Share Posted February 12, 2007 In a word - deception. That was Petitbon's trademark as a defensive coordinator. He would disguise his defensive scheme to make you think they were doing one thing, then they'd do another. He had one of the game's greatest CBs for most of his career, so he could afford to take risks from time to time as well. With Dexter flying around the left tackle, Butz plugging the middle, and Mann pushing the line back on the offense's right side, he didn't need blitz that often. Hail, H Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCnDaHouse Posted February 13, 2007 Share Posted February 13, 2007 Pettibon was a great defensive coordinator. I often wondered why he didn't work again as a DC after he left the Skins. I guess he's been out of football too long now and that's why Gibbs didn't bring him back. But he was a great DC and not a bad player in his time. MC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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