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AP: Woman, 92, Dies in Shootout With Police

G.A.C.O.L.B.

By G.A.C.O.L.B.
in The Tailgate

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Guest sith lord

Guest sith lord

Posted
Posted
not to be the a-hole, but when they knock and announce who they are and have to force entry, its because she didn't let them in. she knew they were cops, and she fired at them. 92 or not, nobody is above the law, and she deserved the return fire. **** happens. i'm tired of people giving BS excuses for trying to kill cops.

Your compassion is just heart warming. Like someone already said, they probably knew that an old lady lived there. They could have tried another approach.

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skinstzar

skinstzar

Posted
Posted
If you're not in uniform and scream police until I see a badge, I don't care what you say you are. I could scream I'm Jesus in the flesh but it doesn't make it true. If they were in uniform it would be a different story. They were stupid for going into a house like that.

You know nothing of policing and your just plain wrong. Do criminals wear uniforms?

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skinstzar

skinstzar

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Please. Do you really think they are giving you all the information about this? They are covering their butts.

Why do people think they HAD to shoot her? I'd like to know what circumstances prevented them from retreating. They also have these protective shields they can use when they are making these house assaults as well as other protective devices. There's a lot more to know here before anyone can call it.

And don't be so quick to believe that they "knocked and announced" before they started an assault on the house. And why anyone is so sure that a 92 year old woman alone in a home actually heard them or was given enough time to distinguish between a home invasion and the execution of a search warrant is beyond me. You think maybe she had to use a hearing aid at that age? You think she actually even had it on just sitting at home alone and wasting her batteries? When someone is battering in your door and rushing in with a ton of police you really think it's so easy to know what's being said or even hear anyone's words? Do you just automatically support the police? They may have been in the right in this case but I'll bet anything that their tactics left much to be desired. So we wait and see. Convenient that the only witness to their actions is now dead.

Holy Christ, this is just stupid. They were fired upon. Three officers were hit. It is an unfortunate situation but it was handled correctly if we are getting all of the information.

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KDawg

KDawg

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You know nothing of policing and your just plain wrong. Do criminals wear uniforms?

No, but police do.

Are the cops at fault here? Absolutely not. Granny opened fire and hit three cops. They have more than enough reason to shoot back with deadly force.

Could the whole situation have been handled differently? Yes. She's 92 years old. Go to the door in uniform. It would be much more believable. If someone comes to my door and yells "POLICE!" over and over, but I see no uniform and no badge you think I'm going to let them in? Absolutely not. Would I fire at them immediately? No. But as soon as I saw their guns pointed and they burst through the door I'm goin out guns a blazin'.

If the officers are uniformed I'm opening the door every time. I respect police officers. There's just way too many bad guys out there for me to trust un-uniformed police...

ALthough, if they flashed their badges my whole tangent is null and void.

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Insomniac

Insomniac

Posted
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Your compassion is just heart warming. Like someone already said, they probably knew that an old lady lived there. They could have tried another approach.

i have no compassion for her or people like her. the cops didn't go in with guns blazing, she fired on cops, hit all 3, and they mowed her down. just like it should be. i will say again, if you shoot at cops, you deserve your punishment. age does not make you exempt from the law.

for those saying the cops could have retreated, that's retarded. when do you ever here of a drug raid or any other raid, where the police flee at the first sound of shots? it's ridiculous.

additionally, those of you saying they go in with shields, that's total BS, which I know for a fact, because they were narcotics officers, which is what my neighbor is, and they do not carry shields. and if they were going in with plain clothes, it shows they weren't going there to bust the door in and start shooting. and for the record, riot cops and SWAT carry shields. these guys were neither.

and lastly, for those saying i would feel differently if it was my grandma, my grandma isn't a gun-totin' nutcase with a warrant. and besides, if the cops had been related to you, how would you feel about that? it goes both ways.

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DCRunner

DCRunner

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i have no compassion for her or people like her. the cops didn't go in with guns blazing, she fired on cops, hit all 3, and they mowed her down. just like it should be. i will say again, if you shoot at cops, you deserve your punishment. age does not make you exempt from the law.

for those saying the cops could have retreated, that's retarded. when do you ever here of a drug raid or any other raid, where the police flee at the first sound of shots? it's ridiculous.

additionally, those of you saying they go in with shields, that's total BS, which I know for a fact, because they were narcotics officers, which is what my neighbor is, and they do not carry shields. and if they were going in with plain clothes, it shows they weren't going there to bust the door in and start shooting. and for the record, riot cops and SWAT carry shields. these guys were neither.

and lastly, for those saying i would feel differently if it was my grandma, my grandma isn't a gun-totin' nutcase with a warrant. and besides, if the cops had been related to you, how would you feel about that? it goes both ways.

Since we haven't been given all the information yet it's not possible to call this a clean shoot. You need to attend a seminar where you can learn exactly how law enforcement agencies - including different police forces around the country - perform in these areas. Anecdotes from your neighbor doesn't cut it. You really are not an expert on this at all if you believe what you posted.

You would be amazed at what local police forces have at their disposal now - they all want to be swat-like units. It's that alpha male thing. And there is plenty of grant money for all kinds of equipment even for the smallest forces. And believe me they all want to use what they have. Often search warrants are executed by a mix of law enforcement agencies, e.g., I have a case now involving a warrant executed by local police from 2 jurisdictions, DEA, ATF, and the Secret Service (and it has nothing to do with the President or the like).

These guys typically look like ninja warriors with all kinds of equipment. It's very illuminating to use photos of their gear. It can also be very scary. They do not look like police officers on the beat. We just don't know yet about this case. But all the things you think did not happen here very easily could have happened. You do not know. This was Atlanta - a pretty major city with a big and probably well funded police force - I can just see the money and grants that flew into that area following that worker rage shooting incident years ago and the Olympic park bombing. This was not Mayberry with Lt. Fife leading the charge.

I may have missed this but I don't recall if this was executed at night or day with a night search warrant - which needs special approval for it's execution at night or early morning - or just a regular day warrant.

It should be intersting to see what all the facts show. Or if we ever get all the facts.

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Commander_N_Chief

Commander_N_Chief

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You know nothing of policing and your just plain wrong. Do criminals wear uniforms?

Unfortunately you must not know that you have the right to request to see a badge and get the badge number from any cop you see fit. It's one of those wonderful perks. I may not know all there is to know about cops you're right, but I do know what the badge, is for all the local cops around me and could point out a fake from the real thing. I have no problem working with a cop, but you better be in uniform or have a badge for me to see. If you're in street clothes and decide to kick in my door and barge into my house without showing me a badge, in my mind until I know differently you're just an intruder.

If you prove to me you're a cop, than I have no problem with whatever you want to do. But how can you trust someone in street clothes with a gun?

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skinstzar

skinstzar

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Unfortunately you must not know that you have the right to request to see a badge and get the badge number from any cop you see fit. It's one of those wonderful perks. I may not know all there is to know about cops you're right, but I do know what the badge, is for all the local cops around me and could point out a fake from the real thing. I have no problem working with a cop, but you better be in uniform or have a badge for me to see. If you're in street clothes and decide to kick in my door and barge into my house without showing me a badge, in my mind until I know differently you're just an intruder.

If you prove to me you're a cop, than I have no problem with whatever you want to do. But how can you trust someone in street clothes with a gun?

You keep watching CSI Miami and believing everything that you are told by people who don't understand the justice system. I happen to have a degree in criminal justice and real life working experience. Including being involved in raid of a meth lab in NC. Police tactics differ from situation to situation. You are absolutely right you have the right to ask for the badge number of a police officer. When you fire upon an officer you forfit that right regardless of age, race, religion, sex or any outstanding factor. There is a principle called the use of force continuum. The suspect in this case excelerated her actions to the final stage of that continuum which is deadly force. The officers acted as they were trained and it was the right thing to do. It might be a little naive to think that this was an innocent old lady. She had the capacity to fire three precise shots with a fire arm. She was also capable of handling the situation in a way that wouldn't have lead to her death. It is tragic no doubt but there is absolutely no room to blame the officers based on the circumstances we have been told.

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Commander_N_Chief

Commander_N_Chief

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Oh I agree that the way it was handled was wrong, but on both fronts. And obviously if it's a cop they're hopefully in most cases not going to just break down your door, and you can view the badge with them outside and looking through a window. But if you just decide to break into my house in street clothes with a gun screaming police my reaction will be to protect my family. Unfortunately in this case all the facts are not there yet, and unfortunately with this woman dead...there'll never be a full truth to each side. There are ways to find out if a person is a cop before a. they break in and b. before you have to shoot. And if they chose to just break in without anything other than police police police, I'm not going to believe them if again they walked in with street clothes. So the matter with this issue is not that she shot them, because she did. The issue is what led to all this happening, and how was it handled.

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DCRunner

DCRunner

Posted
Posted
92? She was on borrowed time anyway. Good riddance.

Okay, I know I shouldn't laugh but that's funny.

I suppose til we learn more we're all just pulling theories out of our butts. The fact that she actually wounded 3 of the officers may just be that they were on top of her or struggling with her at the time. Maybe even trying to get the gun out of her hand. Which may in turn mean that she couldn't properly hear or see who was coming at her. They may have improperly exposed themselves to her cause they saw she was an old lady.

Point is, we don't know. You do have a right to defend yourself against unlawful police actions. Even with violence. It is, however, a tricky area and courts are loathe to find for civilians against the police - and, of course, it will probably be your estate litigating this. But to make a blanket statement that civilians have no right to act in self defense in all police initiated activity is incorrect.

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G.A.C.O.L.B.

G.A.C.O.L.B.

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I dont understand how the Civil Rights leader thinks she deserves and apology. Has this country become this disgusting?

Cops are fired upon and hit, and fire back, killing the shooter. And they are to blame? What a crock

What we need to know is why she fired, why were the cops in a position to be fired at, and could they have handled it better. It seems to me that they should have done their research before kicking the door down. They should have known who was inside at the time and that it was a 92 year old lady. If they had known that I'm sure they could have simply knocked on the door and shown their badges. They are saying now that a UC bought drugs out of that house earlier from a young man but there was no young man there when this happened. It seems to me that their intelligence was bunk and they mishandled the whole thing and now as a result three police officers are in the hospital and 92 year old grandmother is dead. I don't have a problem with cops defending themselves. I have a problem with cops going all gung-ho, as they like to do, and not taking the time to make sure unnecessary events like this are avoided.

Edit: strike events and put tragedies. Because that's what this is.

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JimboDaMan

JimboDaMan

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I dont understand how the Civil Rights leader thinks she deserves and apology. Has this country become this disgusting?

Cops are fired upon and hit, and fire back, killing the shooter. And they are to blame? What a crock

And you're a conservative?

Cops kick down an innocent old woman's door. She defends herself with a legal weapon and is slain in return. The police did nothing wrong, there's no reason to question the process? Has this country become this disgusting?

What a crock.

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G.A.C.O.L.B.

G.A.C.O.L.B.

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And you're a conservative?

Cops kick down an innocent old woman's door. She defends herself with a legal weapon and is slain in return. The police did nothing wrong, there's no reason to question the process? Has this country become this disgusting?

What a crock.

There aren't real conservatives. They are something but conservatives they are not. I would like to say facists but it may be a whole new way of thinking being born in front of our very eyes.

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Cdowwe

Cdowwe

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And you're a conservative?

Yes, and I could go on for hours why

Cops kick down an innocent old woman's door. She defends herself with a legal weapon and is slain in return. The police did nothing wrong, there's no reason to question the process? Has this country become this disgusting?

What a crock

I know as much as you do. According to the news, they knock and announced. This means they say Police, They do this for their own safety. Its a crock that everytime a minority dies at the hand of a police officer, they must apologize, even in this case that they were defending themselves. Thats another topic though.

This country has become so disgusting that a 92 year old woman would need a gun to defend herself. I know that gun was not bought to shoot cops. It was to shoot "bad guys". Or if that is not the case, why did she need the gun. Maybe she was a 92 year old drug dealer. Im sure there hasbeen cases.

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JimboDaMan

JimboDaMan

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Yes, and I could go on for hours why

I know as much as you do. According to the news, they knock and announced. This means they say Police, They do this for their own safety. Its a crock that everytime a minority dies at the hand of a police officer, they must apologize, even in this case that they were defending themselves. Thats another topic though.

This country has become so disgusting that a 92 year old woman would need a gun to defend herself. I know that gun was not bought to shoot cops. It was to shoot "bad guys". Or if that is not the case, why did she need the gun. Maybe she was a 92 year old drug dealer. Im sure there hasbeen cases.

What we hear in the news is the story as told by a group of armed men who just shot dead a 90 year old woman minding her own business in her own home. Apparently that old woman needed more than a handgun to defend herself. Perhaps if she had something semi-automatic she'd have gotten off head shots instead of the body, and we'd be hearing a different story about how they broke in without warning. I'm not rooting for those cops to be killed - that would also be tragic - but neither do I accept without question that it went down like they say, since they managed to take care of the only witness who can tell us different. Whatever they did, it turned out horribly wrong, and if you can't see the need to review how to avoid this in the future that's just sad.
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Larry

Larry

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What we hear in the news is the story as told by a group of armed men who just shot dead a 90 year old woman minding her own business in her own home.

Off-topic, but on the subject of post-facto tales:

I've seen it claimed that when there is an accident involving a tractor-trailer and a car, it's almost always the car's fault. Supposedly, frequently, the activity that caused the accident was the car passing several trucks, then changing lanes in front of the truck and hitting his brakes.

However, I've also seen that in such car-truck accidents, the occupants of the car die over 90% of the time.

Which then causes me to conclude that the first set of statistics were overwhelmingly based on post-accident statements from the only driver who survived the accident, saying that it was the other driver's fault.

And further causes me to ask, of all the people on this board, and all the places you've driven:

  • How many times have you seen a car swerve in front of a truck and hit their brakes?
  • And how many times have you been driving down the road and a truck has pulled up untill he's less than a car length behind you, because you weren't speeding enough?

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