bulldog Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 there is no magic inherent in the 'Saunders' approach. in fact there are coordinators out there that are just as capable of taking a team with good skill players and getting similar results. in Kansas City, Saunders had a quarterback in Trent Green that was mobile in his prime and had an arm strong enough to make all the throws. Saunders had the benefit of a front office that gave him first Priest Holmes and then Larry Johnson, as well as a truly solid offensive line with one HOF caliber player in Willie Roaf and several other pro bowlers over the years. at receiver there was no 'special' talent, no Torry Holt or Marvin Harrison. But the Chiefs had the best TE in the game in Tony Gonzalez and worked in speedy receivers like Kennison and Morton that were veterans and could get down the field. I really don't see Saunders as being a genius for getting productivity out of this group. Are we similarly crediting Tony Dungy for the productivity of Manning, Harrison and Co. over the past several years? the acquisition of Al Saunders set this team back in 2006. no he is not the reason we can't tackle on defense right now or open holes in the run game. but he IS the major reason that Jason Campbell's progression has been retarded for yet another season in having to learn a new offense from scratch instead of being able to build directly on 2005. and he is also responsible for not properly evaluating LONG BEFORE this team set foot on the field against the Vikings that there were passes that Mark Brunell could and could not throw. his comment after the Dallas game that he was still learning the talent and how to use it to me is inexcusable. how many hours of film work and work in the OTAs and camp did it take for Saunders to evaluate Brunell's arm and where the strengths of this offense lie, namely in the rushing of Clinton Portis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubba9497 Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 a lot of "truths" posted lately :laugh: I think we need some "lies" posted now to balance things out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woofer Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 how many hours of film work and work in the OTAs and camp did it take for Saunders to evaluate Brunell's arm and where the strengths of this offense lie, namely in the rushing of Clinton Portis. Approximately 6.2 hours. :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulldog Posted October 18, 2006 Author Share Posted October 18, 2006 I was responding to the incessant bleatings of the national media who have continued to heap praise on Saunders for his stint in KC while wondering what has happened in Washington to 'make' him fail................ In my mind he has been his own worst enemy. If he wanted to run a system that featured the deep out and the skinny post then he should have either convinced Gibbs to acquire another quarterback or take the plunge with Campbell, despite the expectations of the owner and the fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Gibbs II Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 a lot of "truths" posted lately :laugh:I think we need some "lies" posted now to balance things out The redskins are 6-0.. i hate lying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XxSpearheadxX Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 Hmm. I dissagree. But oh well, I can see what you are saying. There are plenty of O-coordinators that havn't succeed with similar talent levels, actually more don't succeed at the ridiculous level as Saunders has than do. Plus Hall of Fame players will most likely thank the coaches who put them in the position to make such a career possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hail2skins Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 a lot of "truths" posted lately :laugh:I think we need some "lies" posted now to balance things out I'll oblige with a lie, or at least an untruth: Joe Gibbs is the ONLY person who can turn this franchise around. If he can't do it, we all might as well become fans of another team, and Snyder should move the team to another city. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney B Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 Have to disagree with this one. By this logic, Joe Gibbs wasn't a great offensive coach in 1983, since he had Riggins, Theisman, Monk and the Hogs. Same for Bill Walsh, with his stable of great '49er talent. And any number of other coaches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt Rich Fla Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 He sucks. 700 page play book my a**. That proves to me that he is selfabsorbed, egotistical, and erogant. In the words of Walter Sobcheck (big lebowski) "keep it simple Dude. When a plan gets too complicated everything can go wrong." "Donny, shut the F*** up.":laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hooper Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 The "truth" is that he doesn't think the best qb on the team is playing right now and is trying to make due with the head coach's guy. A qb who can't make all the throws. A qb who never uses the middle of the field, unless it's a dump off. A qb who is a total class act, but who is far too inconsitent to be anything more than a backup right now. That's the truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stanley seay Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 i was thinking that during the pre-season that this coaching staff was "sandbagging" by not showing the football world what this team had & once the season started they would BUST OUT & set the season on fire with an offense & a defense that would have opponents "flabergasted" but NO it is the fans that are feeling that way. how could this happen i keep asking myself. now all i hear is the coach is too soft or the qb does not have it anymore, defense this offense that. i still believe that this team can turn it around BUT they need to start this week with the COLTS. they have a BYE & it is during that time they can plan for the rest of the season WIN OR LOSE they can still MAKE US PROUD!!!!!!!!!!!!!! could i get an AMEN!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conkev12 Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 The truth about Coach Saunders: he neither plays nor coaches defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyGator Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 The only truth that matters: I'm Danny's heir. :secret: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsnsox Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 The truth about Al Saunders is that he's a great offensive coordinator with an incredible playbook, but without the QB to use it. The Skins are using the same pass patterns they used the last 3 years, short left, short right, dump left, dump right...anything to avoid turnovers. We all know how Gibbs hates those, and looked what happened when Brunell tried to throw deep at the end of the Titans' game. When Brunell drops back, he looks at his primary target and throws it away if it isn't there. Watch Manning, Mcnabb, or Brady some time...unless it's a quick slant or screen, they're looking at multiple targets. Brunell isn't capable of doing this. The record set in the Houston game was the result of short passing against a week defense, and some great playmaking after the catch. The same thing happened against the Jags. All 3 of Moss's TD's were the result of incredible effort on his part, not the result of incredible passes. Could Campbell do better? I have to go with Gibbs on this one...not yet. The Skins are still hoping to turn it around and make the playoffs, and Brunell is the best they have RIGHT NOW. Putting Campbell in right now is admitting that it's a rebuilding year after week 6, which I'm ready to accept. In my opinion, they don't have a chance this year...so put Campbell in now and give him the experience. If Campbell wasn't ready this year, they should've picked up a quality QB in the offseason...Brunell is not the QB they need to win the Super Bowl. My 2 cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GibbsFactor Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 a lot of "truths" posted lately :laugh:I think we need some "lies" posted now to balance things out Fine, the Skins won't turn it around this year. I admit, I was pissed after these latest two losses, but unlike the Gnats game, we really were close to dominating the Titans. A few less penalties here, a few more closer thrown balls there, two big run stopping tackles.... I'm sticking with it. I'll check back after the Pukes game. That's the defining game of the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldskool Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 Bulldog, your not wrong too often but your dead wrong here. Saunders was a very big part of what made KC work. You can have all of the talent in the world but without a solid offensive scheme, your team is not going to perform on offense. What Saunders had in KC is not that much different than what he has in Washington. Sure the Tong Gonzalez might be a bit more savvy than Cooley and the O-line might be better than what Washington has but we arent talking about a very large talent gap here. The only real gap here is at starting QB. What we are talking about is the players not executing the offense. Saunders success was enough for a HoF coach to hire him and have him run the offense. That's good enough for me. If your not convinced yet, lets look at KC's offense post Saunders. Overall ranked 26th. Ranked 25th in passing. Ranked 25th in rushing. Ranked 22nd in scoring. Does it look like to you that they are missing Saunders? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowBoutDemSkinsBaby Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 The truth about Al Saunders is that he's a great offensive coordinator with an incredible playbook, but without the QB to use it. The Skins are using the same pass patterns they used the last 3 years, short left, short right, dump left, dump right...anything to avoid turnovers. We all know how Gibbs hates those, and looked what happened when Brunell tried to throw deep at the end of the Titans' game.When Brunell drops back, he looks at his primary target and throws it away if it isn't there. Watch Manning, Mcnabb, or Brady some time...unless it's a quick slant or screen, they're looking at multiple targets. Brunell isn't capable of doing this. The record set in the Houston game was the result of short passing against a week defense, and some great playmaking after the catch. The same thing happened against the Jags. All 3 of Moss's TD's were the result of incredible effort on his part, not the result of incredible passes. Could Campbell do better? I have to go with Gibbs on this one...not yet. The Skins are still hoping to turn it around and make the playoffs, and Brunell is the best they have RIGHT NOW. Putting Campbell in right now is admitting that it's a rebuilding year after week 6, which I'm ready to accept. In my opinion, they don't have a chance this year...so put Campbell in now and give him the experience. If Campbell wasn't ready this year, they should've picked up a quality QB in the offseason...Brunell is not the QB they need to win the Super Bowl. My 2 cents. "When Brunell drops back, he looks at his primary target and throws it away if it isn't there. Watch Manning, Mcnabb, or Brady some time...unless it's a quick slant or screen, they're looking at multiple targets. Brunell isn't capable of doing this. The record set in the Houston game was the result of short passing against a week defense, and some great playmaking after the catch. The same thing happened against the Jags. All 3 of Moss's TD's were the result of incredible effort on his part, not the result of incredible passes." - http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=3091119# Thank You! It hurts me to watch other QBs and then watch Brunell in the same situations and he has been in the NFL longer than the two QBs you mentioned and to second your point, Brunell expects Moss to bail him out always...It is Moss who deos the work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hooper Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 The truth about Al Saunders is that he's a great offensive coordinator with an incredible playbook, but without the QB to use it. The Skins are using the same pass patterns they used the last 3 years, short left, short right, dump left, dump right...anything to avoid turnovers. We all know how Gibbs hates those, and looked what happened when Brunell tried to throw deep at the end of the Titans' game.When Brunell drops back, he looks at his primary target and throws it away if it isn't there. Watch Manning, Mcnabb, or Brady some time...unless it's a quick slant or screen, they're looking at multiple targets. Brunell isn't capable of doing this. The record set in the Houston game was the result of short passing against a week defense, and some great playmaking after the catch. The same thing happened against the Jags. All 3 of Moss's TD's were the result of incredible effort on his part, not the result of incredible passes. Could Campbell do better? I have to go with Gibbs on this one...not yet. The Skins are still hoping to turn it around and make the playoffs, and Brunell is the best they have RIGHT NOW. Putting Campbell in right now is admitting that it's a rebuilding year after week 6, which I'm ready to accept. In my opinion, they don't have a chance this year...so put Campbell in now and give him the experience. If Campbell wasn't ready this year, they should've picked up a quality QB in the offseason...Brunell is not the QB they need to win the Super Bowl. My 2 cents. Exactly. And that's why Saunders has been lobbying -- allegedly -- for Collins to get a chance since the Cowboys game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWB Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 Could Campbell do better? I have to go with Gibbs on this one...not yet. The Skins are still hoping to turn it around and make the playoffs, and Brunell is the best they have RIGHT NOW. What short pass can't Campbell make? Think about it. Dump off right, dump off left. We need a 15 year veteran to do this? Maybe because we are going to go back to the run we need Brunell's gifted hand off. Brunell does not put the fear in anyone but Redskin Fans! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsnsox Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 Could Campbell do better? I have to go with Gibbs on this one...not yet. The Skins are still hoping to turn it around and make the playoffs, and Brunell is the best they have RIGHT NOW. What short pass can't Campbell make? Think about it. Dump off right, dump off left. We need a 15 year veteran to do this? Maybe because we are going to go back to the run we need Brunell's gifted hand off. Brunell does not put the fear in anyone but Redskin Fans! I've never seen Campbell play, even in college, but I've even heard the receivers say that he isn't ready yet. Are they just saying that so they don't piss of the coaches...I dont' know. It just seems like the general concensus is that he isn't ready yet. The question for me is ready for what? To lead a team to the SB? Probably not, but why not put him in now and give him the experience. The Skins offense is young and could be incredible next year with a better QB. I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsnsox Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 Exactly. And that's why Saunders has been lobbying -- allegedly -- for Collins to get a chance since the Cowboys game. Collins??? You're kidding me...did you see him in preseason? He looked horrible. Why waste the time? He might have the entire playbook memorized, but he didn't look capable of performing anything in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin11 Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 God, I hate being a fan of a team that doesn't do good, but I will stick with them...Next year we will dominate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diver Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 What makes him an above average coordinator or "offensive genius" as he was sometimes called. Is the ability to create confusion in the defense, deception and perception. Motion and a wide variety of formations to create mismatches. Now it's hard to make all that work when you aren't committed to the run and your QB locks in on his favorite target 90% of the time. I don't think we have seen the real Saunders offense only glimpses of it at times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin11 Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 Overall ranked 26th. Ranked 25th in passing. Ranked 25th in rushing. Ranked 22nd in scoring. Does it look like to you that they are missing Saunders? HMMM, could it be that they lost their starting QB.....YEah that's it. WHat's us without Brunell? O wait, we would be better, bad example. Can somebody give me the stats of Kansas City first season with AL Saunders? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldskool Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 HMMM, could it be that they lost their starting QB.....YEah that's it.WHat's us without Brunell? O wait, we would be better, bad example. Can somebody give me the stats of Kansas City first season with AL Saunders? Every team has a capable backup these days, so dont pull that "Trent Green was out" BS. As for KC offense, here you go: 2001-16th in offense. 2002-1st in offense. 2003-1st in offense. 2004-2nd in offense. 2005-6th in offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.