Dirk Diggler Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 here is the rankings.Punting Net Avg: 29 Punt Ret. Avg: 28 Kickoff Avg: 30 kickoff Return Avg: 28 Kickoff Touchbacks: 24 they upgraded with El, but its not just about the return guy. there is more to it than that. No one is arguing that Punting stunk and may continue to stink. But the coverage was exceptional: http://www.nfl.com/stats/teamsort/NFL/DEF-RETURNS/2005/regular?sort_col_1=4 The injuries to Hall affected the kickoffs (and of course the number of touchbacks) and that should improve with better health. However, the kickoff coverage teams were excellent: http://www.nfl.com/stats/teamsort/NFL/DEF-RETURNS/2005/regular?sort_col_1=4&_3:col_1=8 The punt returns were poor but should see significant improvement with Randel El who was 3rd in the AFC in punt return average and was the only returner to take 2 to the house. Kickoff Avg: 30??? http://www.nfl.com/stats/teamsort/NFL/OFF-RETURNS/2005/regular?sort_col_1=3&_3:col_1=8 Actually it was 11th and we led the league with 2 returns for TDs. Betts had the 2nd best return average in the NFC. Randel El is another option here if we need it being that he was 3rd in the AFC in kick return average the last time he saw action back there in 2004. The Skins special teams were most certainly not "among the worst in the league." In fact they had a solid field goal % despite injuries, excellent coverage teams, and a very good kick return average. There were some things they didn't do well for the reasons mentioned but are we going to equate a lack of touch backs with field goal %? Of course not. Bottom line = The Skins addressed any shortcomings in their special teams except changing punters. We also have exceptional depth with Moss able to return punts in a pinch and Randel El able to return kicks if Betts went down. To fail to recognize that makes you as ignorant Skins fans who act like the Cowboys line was crap the entire year in 2005 and will continue to be crap in 2006 based on a few stats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinny21 Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 To fail to recognize that makes you as ignorant Skins fans who act like the Cowboys line was crap the entire year in 2005 and will continue to be crap in 2006 based on a few stats. Can I get an amen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfos81 Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 Our spteams was really good last season, we won the field position battle for the most part of the season, now w/ ARE we should be even better at the field position battle. I can't wait to start braggin on our team this yr, we gotta go out and match our potential on the field though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirk Diggler Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 Can I get an amen? amen :logo: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shawn Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 I'm talking about names and stats, you're talking solely about your opinion, yet i'm the homer... you really are funny (do they actually allow computers in the mental ward?) As for your point about ware and marshall... I'll actually bet that GW would rather have marshall than Ware. We play a 4-3 and you play a 3-4 (complicated stuff I wouldn't want you to hurt your head over) they're very different and the players can't necessarily play both equally. Marshall is the qb of our defense and is great in coverage. Ware can sack the qb and is a liability in coverage... not saying one is better than the other (hell the only reason I brought up Ware is cause everyone is on his nu** but then they/you call marshall a no namer) Come talk to me about homerism whenever you start researching, okay homer? funny guy....take those glasses off then talk to me, you must be kidding about ware....then greg williams needs to examine his head. your are comparing a top15 pick vs. a no name LB. Dat was the QB of the LB group in dallas, but no one in their right mind would call him great as you are touting marshall. talk about homerism...geez...there is no one on the skins DL that I would have other than griffin. they are all average with average talent. its greg williams that makes it work not the DL and if you ask Greg Williams if he would rather have the Giants DL? what do you think he would be able to with Strahan and Osi on his line compared to just Griffin, or do you value good DTs more than great DEs? now grow up son, just because people think differently than you doesn't make them mental, its you who needs his head examined because of those rose colored glasses you have had on for so long has made your mind into coolaid... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ouvan59 Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 Here is my list Offense 1. NY Giants (422 points) 2. Washington (359 points) 3. Dallas (325 points) 4. Philly (310 points) Defense 1. Washington (293 points) 2. Dallas (308 points) 3. NY Giants (314 points) 4. Philly (388 points) Totals Washington 3 NY Giants 4 Dallas 5 Philly 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ouvan59 Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 your are comparing a top15 pick vs. a no name LB. But, but, but.........you guys told us when we were discussing Campbell vs Romo sits to pee that that didn't matter? :whoknows: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skins4481 Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 funny guy....take those glasses off then talk to me, you must be kidding about ware....then greg williams needs to examine his head. your are comparing a top15 pick vs. a no name LB. Dat was the QB of the LB group in dallas, but no one in their right mind would call him great as you are touting marshall. talk about homerism...geez...there is no one on the skins DL that I would have other than griffin. they are all average with average talent. its greg williams that makes it work not the DL and if you ask Greg Williams if he would rather have the Giants DL? what do you think he would be able to with Strahan and Osi on his line compared to just Griffin, or do you value good DTs more than great DEs? now grow up son, just because people think differently than you doesn't make them mental, its you who needs his head examined because of those rose colored glasses you have had on for so long has made your mind into coolaid... If you're going to compare players to where they were drafted, Andre Carter was a top 10 pick on Osi Umenyiora was picked in the 2nd round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skins4481 Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 But, but, but.........you guys told us when we were discussing Campbell vs Romo sits to pee that that didn't matter?:whoknows: Of course they did. They're Cowboys fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 But, but, but.........you guys told us when we were discussing Campbell vs Romo sits to pee that that didn't matter? :whoknows: I do believe shawn's exact words were "being a #1 pick doesn't mean crap." Though I may have to go look it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinny21 Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 I do believe shawn's exact words were "being a #1 pick doesn't mean crap." Though I may have to go look it up. Thanks coach! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powerANDgut Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 I'll put it easier: In what categories do the Skins finish in 3rd Debatables: QB - maybe but brunell had the best season of any NFC EAST qb, check the stats. TE - I love Cooley but Whitten and Shockey had similiar #'s w/o any fumbles CB - Philly, Dal, Was all have cases to be made for the top 2 spots WR - NYG relied too much on Tiki for receiving & Was has new starters LB - Because no one knows their names or stats, pretty much why its debatable. Absolutes: Punting! - Yea he sucks I could only find one absolute position where the Skins are definetly the worst in the NFC East and that's punter. I'd put us at 4th for punter. I like our teams chances Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonnyJ Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 You know, I probably didn't watch enough Cowboy games last year, but I just don't get where the love for Ware comes from. :confused: The only times I noticed him against the Skins was when he was getting swallowed up or tossed around like a rag doll by a Redskin OL. The guy came out of some small-time program, probably had a couple of stat-building games and a bunch of nondescript ones, yet now he's the next coming of LT. Marshall was a FAR better LB last season and just because Ware has great physical numbers, that doesn't mean that will change anytime soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatmeworry Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 I think with the exception of Phi the qB position could honestly be in any order. I think you have us too low on TE (if you consider Cooley a TE) and the DL which began to dominate at the emd of last year. Other than that I'd say it's pretty much deadon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfos81 Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 funny guy....take those glasses off then talk to me, you must be kidding about ware....then greg williams needs to examine his head. your are comparing a top15 pick vs. a no name LB. Dat was the QB of the LB group in dallas, but no one in their right mind would call him great as you are touting marshall. talk about homerism...geez...there is no one on the skins DL that I would have other than griffin. they are all average with average talent. its greg williams that makes it work not the DL and if you ask Greg Williams if he would rather have the Giants DL? what do you think he would be able to with Strahan and Osi on his line compared to just Griffin, or do you value good DTs more than great DEs? now grow up son, just because people think differently than you doesn't make them mental, its you who needs his head examined because of those rose colored glasses you have had on for so long has made your mind into coolaid... Marshall is the qb of the Redskins D and he can still play, Dat on the other hand isn't able to play, so how can you compare Dat to Marshall? Either way you guys lost more in the offseason then the Skins, and the only reason guys/media doesn't mention it is b/c of T.O. Overall we are better and we'll just have to prove it on the field just like last season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shawn Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 If you're going to compare players to where they were drafted, Andre Carter was a top 10 pick on Osi Umenyiora was picked in the 2nd round. carter and osi have had time to prove their talent outside of where they were picked. its not about Potential with them any longer, since they have been in the league for couple of years and time to prove themselves. its about proven ability at this point. Carter has been on a decline for the past few years, while Osi has elevated his game. Marshall is what he is, he will never be dominant. he will never be elite. Ware has the potential to be. will he or will he not? we shall see. next year this time we will know if Ware is for real or a mirage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shawn Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 Marshall is the qb of the Redskins D and he can still play, Dat on the other hand isn't able to play, so how can you compare Dat to Marshall? Either way you guys lost more in the offseason then the Skins, and the only reason guys/media doesn't mention it is b/c of T.O. Overall we are better and we'll just have to prove it on the field just like last season. lost more than gained? replacing Dat with a bigger LB in Ayodele who is a better fit for 3-4. I bet you are refering to Glover who at 280 lbs didn't fit the NT role for a 3-4. I loved glover. he is a great 4-3 DT that can do a lot, but as a 3-4 NT he was a liability and often was pushed around having to deal with constant double teams. so I bet losing Lavar wasn't a big deal for the skins. he sucked, since he is no longer a redskins (as often happens when it looks like a player is not going to be a redskin any longer, they suck, they have character problems, and hatred for them starts, like baily, arrington, pierce, smoot, etc.). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo#44 Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 lost more than gained? replacing Dat with a bigger LB in Ayodele who is a better fit for 3-4. I bet you are refering to Glover who at 280 lbs didn't fit the NT role for a 3-4. I loved glover. he is a great 4-3 DT that can do a lot, but as a 3-4 NT he was a liability and often was pushed around having to deal with constant double teams. so I bet losing Lavar wasn't a big deal for the skins. he sucked, since he is no longer a redskins (as often happens when it looks like a player is not going to be a redskin any longer, they suck, they have character problems, and hatred for them starts, like baily, arrington, pierce, smoot, etc.). Here we go again - people turning on Lavar simply b/c he is an ex-redskin...I get real tired of hearing this. Did I want to lose bailey? NO! Did I want to lose smoot? NO! Did I want to lose Piece? NO! Bailey didn't start to be an a-hole until he ran his mouth in the press, same with Pierce. I won't take away from their abilities: they are both Pro Bowl players. Newsflash, Smoot SUCKED last year. And ran his mouth. Arrington has been causing problems here for the past couple of years - I have been tired of him for years. He is not as good as he thinks he is, and his health is an issue. Is he better than Holdman? Yes. Is he worht the money he was getting here? NO! Did he pay to leave? Yes - translation - Gibbs does not want anyone who does not want to be here - regardless of ability! Why don't you shut the **** up, you have no idea what you're talking about. Not to mention the same thing could be said about the ex-boys players that are suddenly irrelevant now they no longer don the Star. And don't even get me started on TO. If you cheer him, you are a hypocrite, plain and simple. :dallasuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeThreeKingsRuleU Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 carter and osi have had time to prove their talent outside of where they were picked. its not about Potential. its about proven ability. Carter has been on a decline for the past few years, while Osi has elevated his game. Marshall is what he is, he will never be dominant. he will never be elite. Ware has the potential to be. will he or will he not? we shall see. so basically what you're saying is....this post is crap don't read it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ouvan59 Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 so I bet losing Lavar wasn't a big deal for the skins. he sucked, since he is no longer a redskins (as often happens when it looks like a player is not going to be a redskin any longer, they suck, they have character problems, and hatred for them starts, like baily, arrington, pierce, smoot, etc.). It may seem like irrational hatred but let me show you how the loss of those players worked out: 2003: Bailey, Arrington, Pierce, Smoot on team -- 5-11 2004: Bailey gone -- 6-10 2005: Bailey, Pierce, Smoot gone -- 10-6 2006: Bailey, Arrington, Pierce, Smoot gone....... It appears those losses were absolutely crushing!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chachie Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 It may seem like irrational hatred but let me show you how the loss of those players worked out:2003: Bailey, Arrington, Pierce, Smoot on team -- 5-11 2004: Bailey gone -- 6-10 2005: Bailey, Pierce, Smoot gone -- 10-6 2006: Bailey, Arrington, Pierce, Smoot gone....... It appears those losses were absolutely crushing!!! :applause: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cphil006 Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 Yea, but how do all the units play wit heach other. Our O-line is good, as individualls thought of, but as a unit we do not play to hte potential, same goes for a lot of our units. This preseason/training camp is essential in building chemistry...and cohesiveness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shawn Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 It may seem like irrational hatred but let me show you how the loss of those players worked out:2003: Bailey, Arrington, Pierce, Smoot on team -- 5-11 2004: Bailey gone -- 6-10 2005: Bailey, Pierce, Smoot gone -- 10-6 2006: Bailey, Arrington, Pierce, Smoot gone....... It appears those losses were absolutely crushing!!! so I guess coaching has nothing to do with it? so lets bring back the old defensive coaches and see if this group performs as well as it does now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinny21 Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 so basically what you're saying is....this post is crap don't read it. :applause: No doubt... u can't argue people that contradict themselves one sentence after another, believe me, I tried. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ouvan59 Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 so I guess coaching has nothing to do with it? so lets bring back the old defensive coaches and see if this group performs as well as it does now. Same coaches were in place last year as they were in 2004. Speaking of 2004, I forgot to include Laveraneus Coles into those players that left and remember what we said about him? Were we right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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