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Text might be hidden 'Gospel of Judas'

@DCGoldPants

By @DCGoldPants
in The Tailgate

which team will be our raiders game this year?  

71 members have voted

  1. 1. which team will be our raiders game this year?

    • Texans
      22
    • Titans
      18
    • Saints
      36
    • Rams
      19

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Xameil

Xameil

Posted
Posted
2 things...

2. didn't Judas kill himself? sounds like a classic guilt trip to me.

yeah but guilt for doing it for money, or guilt/sadness because he HAD to turn his friend in as he was instructed to do by his friend so he could shed his "Earthly" vessel?

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Coach Williams

Coach Williams

Posted
Posted
actually... :laugh: ...the sky isn't blue, that's just the color you see when light is refracted by certain particles in the atmosphere :laugh: :laugh:

how true! :laugh:

Bill nye the science guy......

Bill~Bill~Bill~Bill~Bill~Bill~Bill~Bill~Bill~Bill~Bill~Bill~Bill~Bill~Bill~Bill~Bill~Bill~Bill~Bill~Bill~Bill~Bill~Bill~Bill~Bill~Bill~Bill~Bill~Bill~Bill~Bill~Bill~Bill~Bill~Bill~Bill~Bill~Bill~Bill~Bill~Bill~

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Xameil

Xameil

Posted
Posted
how true! :laugh:

Bill nye the science guy......

Bill~Bill~Bill~Bill~Bill~Bill~Bill~Bill~Bill~Bill~Bill~Bill~Bill~Bill~Bill~Bill~Bill~Bill~Bill~Bill~Bill~Bill~Bill~Bill~Bill~Bill~Bill~Bill~Bill~Bill~Bill~Bill~Bill~Bill~Bill~Bill~Bill~Bill~Bill~Bill~Bill~Bill~

:laugh: :laugh: nope not Bill Nigh...just a Chemistry/Science/Knowledge Seeking freak :laugh:

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Johnny Punani2

Johnny Punani2

Posted
Posted
Neither do people know who wrote the NT. Why do you believe in the NT and not this? because you were taught to believe in it, that is why. If you were taught this gospel, you would believe in this one instead? Yes, you would.

That is the point, and what I believe in makes the most sense to me on a logical level. It makes more sense to me that a man would not betray a friend for a measly sum of money when he has already devouted his life to poverty. What are ther reasons for this, greed? Well, if it was greed, why be a follower in the first place and give up all of your posessions? See, makes no sense.

Get Real. Everyone knows who wrote the books of the Bible. No one on your side is dumb enough to question that. And why do you disregard the NT and believe this as soon as it come out? Because the NT doesn't fit into your atheist beliefs and this does that's why.

It makes more sense to me that a man would not betray a friend for a measly sum of money when he has already devouted his life to poverty. What are ther reasons for this, greed? Well, if it was greed, why be a follower in the first place and give up all of your posessions? See, makes no sense.

This is a really lame excuse. Seriously, people betray each other friend or not all the time. It's called "Human Nature" that same sin nature all of mankind has. Judas was no different then any of us. Peter denied Jesus three times and Jesus called Peter the Rock he would build his Church on. Judas was greedy and his greed caused him to sellout his friend.

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AlexRS

AlexRS

Posted
Posted
Get Real. Everyone knows who wrote the books of the Bible. No, one on your side is dumb enough to question that. And why do you disregard the NT and believe this as soon as it come out? Because the NT doesn't fit into your atheist beliefs and this does that's why.

It seems any reasonable understanding of the concept of God should be able to explain all religious books.

Please do not insult intelligence of a (seemingly ;) ) reasonable man by saying he would choose to "disregard" any specific religious text.

Seriously, people betray each other friend or not all the time. It's called "Human Nature" that same sin nature all of mankind has.

It seems unreasonable to claim that somebody would betray somebody else simply because it is "human nature"

Yes, humans are capable of most horrible deeds.

Yet there is always an explanation for it that goes beyond "it's just human nature"

Judas was no different then any of us. Peter denied Jesus three times and Jesus called Peter the Rock he would build his Church on.

Indeed Jesus himself saw that Peter's energy and strong-headedness is more likely to result in what we now call Christianity.

This does not necessarily mean that Peter "got it"

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Xameil

Xameil

Posted
Posted
soon as I thought this thread was dead:laugh:.....

Oh well....back to final fantasy:D

This thread gets resurrected more then...I'm just gonna stop right there :laugh: :laugh:

:doh: where's that bottle of Advil...and where's my beer..and why am I still at work.

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The Sisko

The Sisko

Posted
Posted
could you give some examples?

Well for starters there's the whole Jesus being God's only begotten son thing from John 3:16 but in Psalms 2:7 God himself tells David that he's his begotten son too.

Now many of you would say "well, God was just saying David, you're my boy 'cuz you're down with me". However, words have meaning and begotten specifically refers to siring a child.

Joshua 17:18 promised the Israelites that they would "drive out the Canaanites though they have chariots of iron, and though they are strong." Yet Judges 1:19 states that Judah's assault against Canaanites in the lowlands failed because they were equipped with iron chariots: "And Jehovah was with Judah; and he drove out the inhabitants of the hill-country; for he could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron."

This one is actually a two-fer in that the two verses contradict each other along with the second contradicting the notion of an omnipotent God.

Then of course there's the problem of 2 Kings 19 reading the same word for word as Isaih 37. I guess God decided to repeat himself...or a manuscript travelled word for word someplace else and was inadvertently included in the canon by the committee.

There's more but these are a good start.

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ZoEd

ZoEd

Posted
Posted

A most excellent thread gentlemen, very healthy civil debate. :applause:

Techboy, where are you? You bring a lot to the table, thanks for the enlightenment.

Ancalogan I've seen you're in this thread a lot but no posting much. Come on brother put the gloves on and step into the ring. :D

Xameil, thanks for the science lesson on the sky. :notworthy I would have sworn it was, well just blue. :laugh:

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mistymjohnson

mistymjohnson

Posted
Posted
Somebody had to "betray" Jesus in order for him to sacrifice himself for our sins...

Naturally Jesus would use his best deciple to do this.

I am somewhat glad that someone finally brought this up. I have wanted to post on this all day, but refrained... However, I feel compelled now.

Jesus, being the Son of God, knew that prophecy had to be fulfilled. In Matthew 26:39, Jesus was sorrowful. He prayed that He be spared the most horrific death if there were any other way salvation could be purchased for mankind. You see, it was not Jesus' will to die on that cross initially. He had to submit His will unto His Father.

Anyway, there was not another disciple that would (or probably could) fulfill the prophecy, and this was something Jesus himself had to recognize in Judas. I may not like what Judas did, but think about it for one moment. Had it not of been for the betrayal... Where would that leave our religion? Better yet, where would that leave our faith? Full of holes, huh?

I look at those people who have come against me, and praise God for them. They are in my life for a reason. If it were not for them... I would not pray like I do... I would not fast as often as I do... I would not shout like I do... I would not dance like I do... I would not praise God like I do... It is because of my dealings with these people that encourage me to strengthen my bond with my Heavenly Father.

Granted, I am not a perfect person... But I believe 100% in Jesus Christ, my Lord and Savior!

EDIT:

"And He went a little further, and fell on His face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou [wilt]."

Matthew 26:39

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Zguy28

Zguy28

Posted
Posted

The bottom line is this: Scripture is one of 3 methods of special revelation that can bring a person to salvation. God reveals himself to chosen (sanctified) men through Scripture. This is why some men can read the Bible and its as dry as 3 day old toast and doesn't seem legitimate. But when God reveals Himself...

This is why no matter how much we debate this issue, nobody will be swayed unless God sways them. All I can do as a Christian is

1. just show you evidence from Scripture (Old Testament) that points to Jesus and was fulfilled.

2. Explain to you that we are all lawbreakers in God's eyes, myself included. Standing on our own goodness will not save us.:(

3. The Good News of salvation that is available if you repent and believe in Him (Jesus) as your Lord and only savior.:)

If you would like to know more about this go here: The Truth

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Kurd Cudins

Kurd Cudins

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Posted
The bottom line is this: Scripture is one of 3 methods of special revelation that can bring a person to salvation. God reveals himself to chosen (sanctified) men through Scripture. This is why some men can read the Bible and its as dry as 3 day old toast and doesn't seem legitimate. But when God reveals Himself...

This is why no matter how much we debate this issue, nobody will be swayed unless God sways them. All I can do as a Christian is

1. just show you evidence from Scripture (Old Testament) that points to Jesus and was fulfilled.

2. Explain to you that we are all lawbreakers in God's eyes, myself included. Standing on our own goodness will not save us.:(

3. The Good News of salvation that is available if you repent and believe in Him (Jesus) as your Lord and only savior.:)

If you would like to know more about this go here: The Truth

What are the other two special methods of special revelation?

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Zguy28

Zguy28

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Posted
What are the other two special methods of special revelation?

The Doctrine of Revelation is broken up into 2 Categories with 6 subcategories

General Revelation: Universal in the sense that it is God's self-disclosure in a general way to all people at all times in all places. You cannot find salvation through General Revelation.

General revealtion occurs through:

  • Nature - God manifests himself in the wonders of the heavens and in the beauty of the earth. What you can know about God by looking at the creation.
  • History - History is linear and all of history bears the imprint of God's activity. God is revealed in the rise and fall of nations - their history reflects manifestations of God's work
  • Experience of Humans - Humans are made in the likeness of God who mirror and reflect God. Morally, our conscience tells us there is a right and there must be a reason for our desire to know God.

Special Revelation: Something given by God to a special people for a special purpose.

  • Salvation History - The history of God's people, Israel and the church, tell us something of God. We can know something about God by seeing how He dealt with His own people.
  • Christ - God talks to Christians one-on-one; through Christ we receive help, guidance and wisdom.
  • Scripture - the Bible is special revelation by God as the Word of God to mankind in general, however, only the special man (the man willing to receive by faith) picks up, reads, and comprehends the Bible. It must become a manual for the life of a Christian.

The Doctrine of Revelation means that you and I do not discover the Lord or find our way to Him on our own. Rather, He must find us. He comes and makes the first move by revealing Himself to us.:)

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ZoEd

ZoEd

Posted
Posted
I am somewhat glad that someone finally brought this up. I have wanted to post on this all day, but refrained... However, I feel compelled now.

Jesus, being the Son of God, knew that prophecy had to be fulfilled. In Matthew 26:39, Jesus was sorrowful. He prayed that He be spared the most horrific death if there were any other way salvation could be purchased for mankind. You see, it was not Jesus' will to die on that cross initially. He had to submit His will unto His Father.

Anyway, there was not another disciple that would (or probably could) fulfill the prophecy, and this was something Jesus himself had to recognize in Judas. I may not like what He did, but think about it for one moment. Had it not of been for the betrayal... Where would that leave our religion? Better yet, where would that leave our faith? Full of holes, huh?

I look at those people who have come against me, and praise God for them. They are in my life for a reason. If it were not for them... I would not pray like I do... I would not fast as often as I do... I would not shout like I do... I would not dance like I do... I would not praise God like I do... It is because of my dealings with these people that encourage me to strengthen my bond with my Heavenly Father.

Granted, I am not a perfect person... But I believe 100% in Jesus Christ, my Lord and Savior!

EDIT:

"And He went a little further, and fell on His face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou [wilt]."

Matthew 26:39

You're definitely right about this. Judas had to betray Jesus to fulfill the prophecy. It's really irrelevant why he did it, he did and the prophecy was fulfilled. Pretty cut and dry.

If Judas killed himself when did he have the time to right down these Gospels?

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Stigmata

Stigmata

Posted
Posted

The scripture was handed down by oral tradition, they didn't have printing presses back then and many cities and towns had only select text of the old testament, one town may have had *job* while one town had Solomon exct and people would go and hear the readings, they couldn't take there copies home, the text was very hard to get and rare.

So for generations people would really hear lets say Solomon being read every day and many had these scriptures down to the point they could quote every word, they would hand down these teachings for generations. Many people would travel from city to city on business and share this oral tradition with peoples that had no access to other scripture.

Its the same with the new testament, at the time many of Jesus teachings were told and retold and retold, accuracy was a tradition, it was just how it was done, if you went to another city and changed any text in your oral tellings it would have been spotted instantly, the scribes exct took accuracy very seriously. as a matter of fact it would be considered heresy to change scripture.

Here we are in this day and age and we have people who meddle with this and that, they place dout on this and that because they are thinking and acting on a solo basis, they go out and write papers and books on there thoughts regarding xy&z and as time goes on, since we have access to books unlike they did back then, these thoughts and opinions start getting ingrained in society.

Professors advising people who are not saved or have no real Biblical back ground no real foundation of the bible as a system for life, these people inject commentary for the purpose of study for the (enlightened) (new) understanding, after all we found some old scrolls here and there, and will look back in time and think hmm i would have done it differently had i been involved with the cannon.

It takes faith, without faith your on a slippery slope, you can be easy to persuade in your thoughts.

Im no saint but i have faith in that Gods hand was involved with the cannon, i have faith the cannon is exactly as it should be, i listen to people point out even the smallest of apparent contradiction in the bible, and are ready to discredit the whole text, and all the while in my heart im thinking, there is no contradiction, your missing something written somewhere else in the text even if its in another book the answer is there. that's faith to me.

Faith that is seen is not faith, for why would you hope for that which you see..

and here lies the crux-ed of it all, Faith. Jesus said My message is easy and my burden is lite, but we tend to make his burden heavy and his message overly complicated when we should just have faith..

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