There is no such thing as Bad Parenting

[AlexRS]

I agree that setting a good example for your children is very important, but not more important than the interaction between parent and child.

The opposite of this seems to be your point and you are wrong.

You also beat around the bush ( with bogus evolution argument) for a number of posts after placing a misleading title to your thread which you immediately contradicted because you couldn't defend it. :doh: :laugh:

It's all true, I am defeated.... sound the retreat!!!

For me the point is to try and get new perspectives on things... which this thread really helped me do (and still is). By no means am I interested in convincing anybody or defending anything.

I'll go put my baby in a trash compactor now, brb

[Darth Tater]

We often think about it like this:

A + B + C = good parenting

D + E + F = bad parenting (and I'm not talking about grades here, although that too :laugh: )

What if we zoom out? What's really happening here? This would be easy to put in Evolutionary terms...

Survival is the one and only "true gauge" of evolutionary success. We survived - we are successful. We now need to make our children the same, so that they can be successful as well.

Do you see? The process is not "good" or "bad" - ultimate sign of success is survival. We simply recreate ourselves, our ways of survival (however messed up they might be)

No, you are expressing a utilitarian view. In this view, the term 'good' only would have meaning if good is what enhances potential for survival.

[AlexRS]

I really hope you dont have children or in the case that you ever do, you change your philosophy.

I never want to run into your progeny :doh:

Again with the judging...

You misunderstood my position and proceeded to judge my character.

Judging is easier than thinking.

[AlexRS]

No, you are expressing a utilitarian view. In this view, the term 'good' only would have meaning if good is what enhances potential for survival.

*I* am not expressing a uitilitarian view.

*EVOLUTION* is expressing a uitilitarian view.

I am merely pointing it out.

[Darth Tater]

My judgement of that type parenting is... drum roll... that is bad parenting.

my judgement

But these parents survived to reproduce, didn't they? From Evolutionary perspective they are successful. Now they are passing those skills to their kids.

...and therefore parenting is 'good' or 'bad'.

[AlexRS]

...and therefore parenting is 'good' or 'bad'.

Looks like I'm paying for the catchy title... Ways of getting attention have a tendency to alter the payload

(TV shows are a good example of this - getting attention became THE payload)

Indubitably there are such things as "good parenting" and "bad parenting." I was trying to point out that both are natural.

[Teller]

That's a great show. I crack up every time my son says he likes Evard Greig.

It's so simple, but teaches so much...kinda like a good parent.

[Darth Tater]

*I* am not expressing a uitilitarian view.

*EVOLUTION* is expressing a uitilitarian view.

I am merely pointing it out.

No, YOU are expressing a utilitarian view, evolution expresses nothing of the sort but that is not truly relevent. What is truly relevent is that since you can communicate what you are attempting to communicate, your communication is a non-sequiter.

[Mr. Nostril]

I'm surprised this got 4 pages of responses. I'm out to go throw rocks at the ground. Maybe I'll hit it this time. Wish me luck.

[AlexRS]

No, YOU are expressing a utilitarian view, evolution expresses nothing of the sort but that is not truly relevent. What is truly relevent is that since you can communicate what you are attempting to communicate, your communication is a non-sequiter.

Evolution is utilitarian. Extremely utilitarian. It fully and truly captures the very essense of utilitarian-ism.

Relevant or not, you would have a hard time arguing against that.

Please do not think of it in terms of "he believes this, these are his views." Try to take my personality out of the loop. My role is only to put forth a way of looking at things.

The point (for me) is to get a better understanding of things that are interesting to me.

The best way to figure out how pieces can be put together is to take different pieces and try to put them together. I simply offered a different set of pieces.

[roadkill]

Even though I don't agree with any of your points (I got lost when evolution popped out of nowhere), you should be given credit for standing up to everyone. I admire your courage.

:applause:

[Commander PK]

There is no such thing as bad parenting? :laugh:

Step into my shoes for a day, and we'll see what you think. There are about 550 Inmates in my facility, that are living proof of either bad parenting, or none at all. :laugh:

[DeanCollins]

There is no such thing as bad parenting? :laugh:

Step into my shoes for a day, and we'll see what you think. There are about 550 Inmates in my facility, that are living proof of either bad parenting, or none at all. :laugh:

Thankyou Painkiller,

I don't how many morons out there subscribe to the nature side of the "nature vs. nurture" argument, but what are these idiots thinking about?

[Commander PK]

Thankyou Painkiller,

I don't how many morons out there subscribe to the nature side of the "nature vs. nurture" argument, but what are these idiots thinking about?

I don't know. I just know that many kids today aren't getting the kind of parenting I was fortunate enough to get. The kind that taught you to say "yes maam", and "no sir."

To respect your fellow human beings, and that it's not always about "YOU." Many kids today lack a moral compass.

[DeanCollins]

I don't know. I just know that many kids today aren't getting the kind of parenting I was fortunate enough to get. The kind that taught you to say "yes maam", and "no sir."

To respect your fellow human beings, and that it's not always about "YOU." Many kids today lack a moral compass.

Hey you'll appreciate this. I had a friend in HS who's father was a criminal psychologist who interviewed murderers to see if they were fit to stand trial.

He wound up commiting suicide, blew his brains out. After he was burried,

I was helping my friend clean up his dad's condo, and we found his files on these murderers, 100's of them.

So I'd drink beer and read these studies with of course childhood histories.

I remember this one in particular about a serial killer that had a nanny in Turkey as a young boy like 6. Well when he misbehaved the nanny would

hit him on his winky with a ruler :doh: and it got worse.

Well I read about 40 of these studies and the treatment these guys recieved was reflected in thier criminal behavior, why this seems to be such a mystery is beyond me.

[LD0506]

Ok this one rubbed my fur the wrong way. This is far too important to bandy about in some kind of pseudo-intellectual debate. The main distinction I would make is that good parenting= actually parenting, loving your children enough to take the time and make the effort to show them the world in a positive fulfilling way while bad parenting= not parenting at all. There are an awful lot of seriously screwed up people out there that are a direct result of not recieving the attention and affection that a parent owes their child. It seems that too often people have children accidentally, or as an accessory for their lifestyle or as some warped answer to love they never got themselves. Most of these people are unequipped to do what is the most difficult job you can undertake. It lasts 20 some years, you don't see the results of your actions for years and often it feels like you are not acknowledged for your efforts but if you are going to give up, get a goldfish instead! I know this seems like a lot of rant on this topic but I became a Dad at 45, a challenge in itself, and since then I have been a SAHD and primary caregiver for my son and I can say without exception it is the hardest job I've ever had (and I've had a few that would cripple some of you on a good day) but at the same time it is the best job I've ever had, but it is a JOB! It takes constant attention to those very things that I teach him indirectly with my words or actions, those things he picks up by osmosis that are going to shape him throughout his life. There are no holidays, I can't call in sick or unwilling or just put it off until later, and it has so changed me and my perspective on life.

[Major Harris]

There will a million posts upcoming about how people don't punish their kids enough (mainly from the people who don't have kids). There's a WHOLE lot more to good parenting than that.

a LOT of parents don't discipline their kids. and i'm a parent.

but being a teacher, i can tell you that there is such a thing as good parenting. you can pick out the kids that don't have it from a mile away. i hope it doesn't get to the point where it's the well parented kids that stick out.

i will say though, that outside influences can have a big effect even on a well parented kid. that's where having open lines of communication becomes the ultimate parenting tool. and communication is what separates good parenting from great parenting, imo.

[Major Harris]

Ok this one rubbed my fur the wrong way. This is far too important to bandy about in some kind of pseudo-intellectual debate. The main distinction I would make is that good parenting= actually parenting, loving your children enough to take the time and make the effort to show them the world in a positive fulfilling way while bad parenting= not parenting at all. There are an awful lot of seriously screwed up people out there that are a direct result of not recieving the attention and affection that a parent owes their child. It seems that too often people have children accidentally, or as an accessory for their lifestyle or as some warped answer to love they never got themselves. Most of these people are unequipped to do what is the most difficult job you can undertake. It lasts 20 some years, you don't see the results of your actions for years and often it feels like you are not acknowledged for your efforts but if you are going to give up, get a goldfish instead! I know this seems like a lot of rant on this topic but I became a Dad at 45, a challenge in itself, and since then I have been a SAHD and primary caregiver for my son and I can say without exception it is the hardest job I've ever had (and I've had a few that would cripple some of you on a good day) but at the same time it is the best job I've ever had, but it is a JOB! It takes constant attention to those very things that I teach him indirectly with my words or actions, those things he picks up by osmosis that are going to shape him throughout his life. There are no holidays, I can't call in sick or unwilling or just put it off until later, and it has so changed me and my perspective on life.

there's a lot of truth in that post that some will miss because it's hard on the eyes. paragraphs, paragraphs.

SAHD, i envy you. but we did bite the bullet and decided to be broke for a couple years while my wife stays at home with our soon to be two year old. it makes all the difference in the world.

what i don't get about non-parents is basically, How? how are you not completely driven by a desire to do what's right for that child? nurture and love that child? it's inate, to me.

[LD0506]

there's a lot of truth in that post that some will miss because it's hard on the eyes. paragraphs, paragraphs.

SAHD, i envy you. but we did bite the bullet and decided to be broke for a couple years while my wife stays at home with our soon to be two year old. it makes all the difference in the world.

what i don't get about non-parents is basically, How? how are you not completely driven by a desire to do what's right for that child? nurture and love that child? it's inate, to me.

Yeah you're absolutely right, I just got off on a rant and wasn't as concerned with the style of it, my apologies. I should know better.

We've done our own share of "bullet biting" so that our son isn't foisted off on strangers in his formative years or constantly sick in daycare, but the one thing that bugs me is how people will tell my wife "You're so lucky that your husband stays home with him", like we bought the right lottery ticket or something. It was a choice, my boys welfare is a higher priority than a newer car or bigger house or that 60" plasma screen, etc.,

You hit the nail on the head there, I simply cannot wrap my brain around the concept that some people just don't care, that they have so many things more important to them than their child's welfare, I just can't even begin to understand it but I see it all around.

[Thiebear]

Good Parenting:

Playing with your children, making sure they eat the right foods, cleaning and teaching them responsibility. Going through their homework and ensuring they get outside and play... She reads the 1 book a night and work on the spelling bee... Knowing who they sit next to during lunch, what did they eat for lunch. Knowing their teacher and going to the PTA meetings. I pick my one at school instead of the bus AND will for the 2nd also.

Parenting is not always creating a clone of yourself:

My father was a D.C. cop single father. I spent 95% of the time by myself at home and even lived by myself for a 6 months at the age of 15... moved out at 17 to join the army due to weed...

I am using that example to do the opposite of me...

[jrockster21]

... or Good Parenting, for that matter.

Some things we knowingly teach our children. Many things children just pick up.... it's the same thing. It is a system to make our kids grow up like us.

That means concepts like Good Parenting or Bad Parenting are meaningless. There is just Parenting.

I have a feeling you started this thread simply to stir the pot, and you don't honestly believe it. I mean, I hope you don't honestly believe it, because its a steaming pile of horse crap. I mean, the premise of this thread is so completely ridiculous its laughable. I can't believe it, but I'm going to side with hokie4redskins on this one; this is the most meaningless thread I've seen on this board...and that is saying a LOT.

Here are the steps again, for those who have forgotten:

1) Think

2) Search

3) Post

:doh: :doh: :doh:

[jrockster21]

That's a great show. I crack up every time my son says he likes Evard Greig.

Man...I don't even know who that is!! :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

(cue WeaponXDawkins for jrockster bashing)

[jrockster21]

Evolution is utilitarian. Extremely utilitarian. It fully and truly captures the very essense of utilitarian-ism.

Relevant or not, you would have a hard time arguing against that.

Please do not think of it in terms of "he believes this, these are his views." Try to take my personality out of the loop. My role is only to put forth a way of looking at things.

The point (for me) is to get a better understanding of things that are interesting to me.

The best way to figure out how pieces can be put together is to take different pieces and try to put them together. I simply offered a different set of pieces.

Evolution is not utilitarian. Maybe partly, but it definitely does not "fully and truly captures the very essense of utilitarian-ism."

Utilitarian:

* having a useful function; "utilitarian steel tables"

* someone who believes that the value of a thing depends on its utility

* having utility often to the exclusion of values; "plain utilitarian kitchenware"

* Utilitarianism (from the Latin utilis, useful) is a theory of ethics based on quantitative maximisation of happiness for society or humanity. It is a form of consequentialism. Utilitarianism is sometimes summarized as "The greatest happiness for the greatest number."

Evolution certainly serves a useful function, but then again, there are some unuseful things about it as well. There are species that died out, and there was no use to their extinction; they simply could not survive; how is this utilitarian?

As far as utilitarianism, evolution certainly does not maximize the happiness for humanity. It maximizes the survivability of humanity...but that does not necessarily mean happiness.

[AlexRS]

Many kids today lack a moral compass.

Kids will have the same moral compass their parents do.

[AlexRS]

Evolution certainly serves a useful function, but then again, there are some unuseful things about it as well. There are species that died out, and there was no use to their extinction; they simply could not survive; how is this utilitarian?.

I am not saying that Evolution has a utilitarian *function*

I am saying that Evolution IS utilitarian. What works survivies. What does not work does not survive. This fit squarely into the "having a useful function."

As for species that died out... Mechanisms that these species used for survival stopped working. Mechanisms lost their utilitarian function and were purged by Evolution.

evolution certainly does not maximize the happiness for humanity. It maximizes the survivability of humanity...but that does not necessarily mean happiness.

Of course it does not. Evolution carries not for happiness or sadness, pain or relieve. Evolution only cares about utility.