Midnight Judges Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 Maybe the insurance companies could stop covering every miracle drug that's out in the market.Just because you are "sad" doesn't mean you have a mental problem and need to pop 6 pills each day. agreed. I had a GF in highschool who was a little depressed after her parents got a divorce so her doctor put her on paxil. I wanted to ask that doctor "Don't you think it's normal for a kid to be bummed about a divorce?" After the paxil kicked in (it takes a month or two so I hear) she went from being a fairly normal person into an extremely extroverted person and she seemed to lose her sanity. She had sex with over 75 guys over the next 4 years. No kidding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsHokieFan Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 Maybe the insurance companies could stop covering every miracle drug that's out in the market.Just because you are "sad" doesn't mean you have a mental problem and need to pop 6 pills each day. Agree with you there. Pharmacuticals are at fault for pushing so many of these drugs, which is part of the reason why health care costs have skyrocketed There are so many freaking drugs for so many freaking things it is amazing we all can't live till 200 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chopper Dave Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 If you are fit and healthy you won't end up in a retirement homeI know several fit and healthy people living normal lives in their 80s, albeit a little slower then we do, because they took care of themselves their entire life Yeah, because taking good care of yourself can stop senility, Alzheimer's, ALS, etc., right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckydevil Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 Nationalized health care is only a matter of time (we are not that far off as is). The biggest supporters of nationalized health care happen to be big business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsHokieFan Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 Yeah, because taking good care of yourself can stop senility, Alzheimer's, ALS, etc., right? Crossword puzzles help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinInsite Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 You do know that clinical depression is a real disease, right? Yes but now days everyone is looking for the quick fix. Parents and doctors alike are so quick to give kids pills instead of spending time with them to find out what really going on. And that pill dependcy will continue as children grow up to be adults, then everything can be solved by some new and wonderous drug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chopper Dave Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 Crossword puzzles help I can see it now; our new healthcare agenda... Crosswords for all!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsHokieFan Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 I can see it now; our new healthcare agenda... Crosswords for all!!! Crossowords, gym memberships, and higher taxes on cigs, alcohol and fast food And I do realize I am a bit idealistic in my personal health care solution. But I for the life of me cannot figure out any other way to reduce future costs besides prevantitive care Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chopper Dave Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 Yes but now days everyone is looking for the quick fix. Parents and doctors alike are so quick to give kids pills instead of spending time with them to find out what really going on.And that pill dependcy will continue as children grow up to be adults, then everything can be solved by some new and wonderous drug. I'm not saying that there aren't abuses, but these drugs need to be covered. There are quite a few people that wouldn't be alive and/or sane if they weren't covered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midnight Judges Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 You do know that clinical depression is a real disease, right? People are diagnosing themselves after seeing commercials on TV. Go to a doctor, they will prescribe whatever you want. It may be a clinical disease but it's hard to know who genuinely has it and who is crying wolf and doesn't really know what real depression is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chopper Dave Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 Crossowords, gym memberships, and higher taxes on cigs, alcohol and fast food That'd cost more than nationalizing healthcare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chopper Dave Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 People are diagnosing themselves after seeing commercials on TV. Go to a doctor, they will prescribe whatever you want. It may be a clinical disease but it's hard to know who genuinely has it and who is crying wolf and doesn't really know what real depression is. You really underestimate the ability of psychologists/psychiatrists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midnight Judges Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 You really underestimate the ability of psychologists/psychiatrists. Well, I dated two of them in college and they were both head-cases. True story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chopper Dave Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 BTW, another way to make $ for national healthcare: legalize and tax marijuana. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ax Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 BTW, another way to make $ for national healthcare: legalize and tax marijuana. Along with that, legalize and tax prostitution. Then we can take all the money out of the treasury and by stock in Twinkies and Trojans, triple our dough, and BUY Canada, where all the cheap drugs are. Then we all live fat and happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaceman Spiff Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 BTW, another way to make $ for national healthcare: legalize and tax marijuana. Sounds more like your wet dream come true Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueTalon Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 Its going to have to be nationlised to some degree.The drug companies have created this monster and the government who are bought and paid for by them give little more than lip service to change the system.You are wrong. Very, very wrong. The first biggest cause of the high cost of medical care isn't medical, it's legal. Drug companies like Merk get sued for tens of millions of dollars -- what, do you think they're just going to absorb that cost? They either go under, meaning one less drug company to try to find the cure for AIDS, or they pass the expense on to you. Also, the costs of malpractice insurance are insane. Could you imagine what the cost of a car would be if every engineer at the factory had to pay an extra $30K to $50K per year? Step one in controlling costs: put a leash on lawyers. Reform that tort! Next is to get people weaned from the idea that health care is something that other people are supposed to be responsible for (employer, or government, or whoever). And the health care policies have to cover less day-to-day stuff and focus more on catastrophic events. Forbes had a great idea a few years back. They provided health care for all their employees, and tied it to an annual $2000 bonus. If you made no claims during the year on your health care, you would get the full $2000. You had the freedom to make a claim or not make a claim. But if you made a claim, for ever dollar the claim cost, two dollars would be subtracted from the bonus. So if you got a case of sniffles and went to see the doctor and claimed it on your health care coverage, and that visit cost $100, your $2000 bonus would then be an $1800 bonus. Obviously, people then had a financial incentive to pay for small medical expenses out of their own pocket. Large expenses were still covered, of course, but apparently that wasn't where the bulk of the costs were, because Forbes' health care costs dropped at a time when they were drastically going up. This, I believe, was the precursor to Medical Savings Accounts. Nationalization is NOT the answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chopper Dave Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 Sounds more like your wet dream come true Or both. Thing is, it actually makes sense. Do you know how many people smoke? Do you know how many more would smoke if it was legal? It's a win/win. Even with a huge government tax, it'd still be cheaper for consumers, plus, it would create jobs, and it would stop us from paying farmers not to grow crops. They could just grow pot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chopper Dave Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 You are wrong. Very, very wrong. The first biggest cause of the high cost of medical care isn't medical, it's legal. Drug companies like Merk get sued for tens of millions of dollars -- what, do you think they're just going to absorb that cost? They either go under, meaning one less drug company to try to find the cure for AIDS, or they pass the expense on to you. Also, the costs of malpractice insurance are insane. Could you imagine what the cost of a car would be if every engineer at the factory had to pay an extra $30K to $50K per year? Step one in controlling costs: put a leash on lawyers. Reform that tort! Next is to get people weaned from the idea that health care is something that other people are supposed to be responsible for (employer, or government, or whoever). And the health care policies have to cover less day-to-day stuff and focus more on catastrophic events. Forbes had a great idea a few years back. They provided health care for all their employees, and tied it to an annual $2000 bonus. If you made no claims during the year on your health care, you would get the full $2000. You had the freedom to make a claim or not make a claim. But if you made a claim, for ever dollar the claim cost, two dollars would be subtracted from the bonus. So if you got a case of sniffles and went to see the doctor and claimed it on your health care coverage, and that visit cost $100, your $2000 bonus would then be an $1800 bonus. Obviously, people then had a financial incentive to pay for small medical expenses out of their own pocket. Large expenses were still covered, of course, but apparently that wasn't where the bulk of the costs were, because Forbes' health care costs dropped at a time when they were drastically going up. This, I believe, was the precursor to Medical Savings Accounts. Nationalization is NOT the answer. Well, that just about solves it for the middle class and up. Sounds good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueTalon Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 Well, that just about solves it for the middle class and up.Sounds good. Putting a leash on lawyers helps EVERYBODY!!! (except the lawyers.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chopper Dave Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 Putting a leash on lawyers helps EVERYBODY!!! (except the lawyers.) Someone with 3 kids making 25k a year isn't going to be able to afford good health care for all of their kids and themself no matter how tight of a leash you put on lawyers. The dirt poor are covered by Medicaid. The old are covered by Medicare. The somewhat wealthy are covered by themselves or their employers. What about the huge group in the middle that can barely survive because their healthcare costs are so high? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Jones Posted February 22, 2006 Author Share Posted February 22, 2006 Putting a leash on lawyers helps EVERYBODY!!! (except the lawyers.) I agree 100% that we need tort reform and lawyers need to be leashed. However, I don't think that will solve everything. Insurance companies need to come around and reduce insurance. Don't think that changing the laws will solve it by itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 The big problem I have with even discussing the issue is that I'm convinced that a great deal of the numbers are vaporware. Granted, I'm relatively healythy. My exposure to the Health Care System is that I'm kind-of the accountant for my parents. Every month I get a deluge of paperwork that says, say Dad saw the Doctor, and the bill is $140, (yes, I'm making these numbers up), and we're billing your insurance company. Then there's a letter from the insurance company, saying that they've decided that the "typical" cost is $39. (Or now, it's from Medicaire, saying it's $29.) And they're paying it. (Or Medicaire pays 80% of it, and their supplemental pays 20%). What this tells me is: The "price" for going to see the doctor because of the flu is: If you're paying cash at delivery, it's $140. If you're a big insurance company, it's $39. If you're the federal government, it's $29. If you're poor, then you go to the emergency room, wait 12 hours, get a $4,000 bill, and ignore it, the taxpayers will eat it. (This also leads to what I consider to be a curious distortion of the market: The guy who gets gouged in this deal, is the customer who's paying COD. The one that the Doctor should be giving the best price to. Less paperwork. Get paid right away. No "Gee, it got denied, so try to send the paperwork through again and wait another month." Just seems backward that the guy who's hit with the biggest bill is the one who's paying cash.) So, exactly which "health care costs" are we talking about, here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueTalon Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 I agree 100% that we need tort reform and lawyers need to be leashed. However, I don't think that will solve everything. Insurance companies need to come around and reduce insurance. That's only going to happen when their costs go down. And the only way their costs are going to go down is for people to not make as many claims. Whether that's done by employers only offering catastrophic care, or giving their workers financial incentives like the one I described, the end result has got to be fewer claims. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Jones Posted February 22, 2006 Author Share Posted February 22, 2006 That's only going to happen when their costs go down. And the only way their costs are going to go down is for people to not make as many claims. Whether that's done by employers only offering catastrophic care, or giving their workers financial incentives like the one I described, the end result has got to be fewer claims. True, but some type of law (incentive if you will) will need to be put in place after the tort reform has been successfully put in place. The insurance companies will not on their own for the good of the people lower their rates without intervention. Lower rates means to a degree that matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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