skinfan133 Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 the long odds don't matter anymore because you've already won. interesting point, i concede the universe exsisting odds to the floor chairman:D, but also what about the very precise and delicate balance as i mentioned beofre?even if that one study is bogus, i might be, the odds are still prety big from what we can guess by ourselves, it has to be.but also the complex relationships between organisms and the environment, on earth and in the solar system, is in such a delicate balance is a mircle life exsists at all on any level. also the precise relationships, for example respiration and photosynthesis, to me prove the exsistance of an inteligent creator, to me God. but then again thats just my opionion, i just like to marvel at the wonder of God's creation, it's beautiful isn't it? (or at least until mankind destroys it:doh:, but thats for another thread) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DjTj Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 interesting point, i concede the universe exsisting odds to the floor chairman:D, but also what about the very precise and delicate balance as i mentioned beofre? It's the same point. We have no idea how many times the universe might have been screwed up (or even if it's screwed up in another part of the galaxy or in other galaxies). All we know that is that things are in pretty good balance right where we are here, so no matter what the odds were, they worked out in our favor. When a billion people are buying lottery tickets, chances are one of them will win. When there are billions of planets around billions of stars, chances are one of them will support life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOF44 Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 Its impossible to calculate any odds that need as a basis the size and age of the universe, because we don't know either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinfan133 Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 but the thing is that i don't believe it is coincidence that everything is just in such a balance that even if one thing goes wrong in the grand scheme of things everything goes spalt!, its not coincidence, but you believe that it is, and thats fine with me, as a smart man once said, "you may not agree with me but i will defend your to do so to my death" edit: but i can also say with confidence that the notion that precisly placed molocules (as one theory states) that were struck by lightning are the parents of every living orginism on this planet is absolutely absurd. also i believe that organisms can evolve (glapogos islands), that is an observable given, but i also think that the idea that humans evolved from apes doesn't work becuase there are species of apes around; the theory of evolution only works through natural selection, so either the humanoid ape descendant or the ape had to die out, of which nither happened, hmmm also the aleged "humanoid species" found by scientists and others around the globe, many fave actualy been found to be misclasified species of baboons or hoaxes used for fame (unfortunatley textbok still havent been changed to acommodate the few or so "species" tha have been discounted. also the fact that mostly only one of each kind of skeleton was found in my opion is not enough to warant it to be taught in schools, of the early humanoids only cro-magnons and neanderthals have been truly proven to have been species of themselves. oh and lucy too, she is considered to be genuine (in my opion its just the retarded skeleton of a chimp, but thas ok too:silly:). but the debate rages on, and will probably never be resolved in this life... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOF44 Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 It's the same point. We have no idea how many times the universe might have been screwed up (or even if it's screwed up in another part of the galaxy or in other galaxies). All we know that is that things are in pretty good balance right where we are here, so no matter what the odds were, they worked out in our favor.When a billion people are buying lottery tickets, chances are one of them will win. When there are billions of planets around billions of stars, chances are one of them will support life. Yea, I wonder what the odds are that out of all the known galaxies in the universe that not 1 planet in 1 galaxy would support life? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinfan133 Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 Yea, I wonder what the odds are that out of all the known galaxies in the universe that not 1 planet in 1 galaxy would support life? very high as well actaully, and i wouldn't be surprised that there isn't something else out there, what it is im not sure, i don't see any reason why God would only create one planet with life, i mean he is God He can do whatever he wants, and i can confidently say that as a christian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinfan133 Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 to bring up another topic of debate, do you believe in an afterlife, and if so, what is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOF44 Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 to bring up another topic of debate, do you believe in an afterlife, and if so, what is it? speaking for myself I don't think there is an afterlife. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinfan133 Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 speaking for myself I don't think there is an afterlife. you can probably guess my answer to that question Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfitzo53 Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 as a smart man once said, "you may not agree with me but i will defend your to do so to my death" "I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it." -Voltaire also i believe that organisms can evolve (glapogos islands), that is an observable given, but i also think that the idea that humans evolved from apes doesn't work becuase there are species of apes around; the theory of evolution only works through natural selection, so either the humanoid ape descendant or the ape had to die out, of which nither happened, hmmm Actually this isn't true at all. In the same way that dogs and wolves are similar but have diverged, apes and humans have diverged. Dogs and wolves had a common ancestor. While that animal is no longer around, both dogs and wolves are. In the same way, both humans and apes are still around because it was not necessary for one to replace the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The 12th Commandment Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 even so statistics provide basis for understanding raw data even if they are constraind to the laws of the universe, understood or not My point was - with an infinite number of chances for something to happen, it will happen an infinite number of times, regardless of how small the chance of that thing happening is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gigantor Posted February 10, 2006 Author Share Posted February 10, 2006 My point was - with an infinite number of chances for something to happen, it will happen an infinite number of times, regardless of how small the chance of that thing happening is. Only if there is infinite time available, which we is not the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOF44 Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 Only if there is infinite time available, which we is not the case. Why is that not the case? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The 12th Commandment Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 Why is that not the case? :applause: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PokerPacker Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 Only if there is infinite time available, which we is not the case. that is exactly the case. just because there is only x time between now and the "begginging of the universe" there's also plenty of time after now in which this could happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winslowalrob Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 but the thing is that i don't believe it is coincidence that everything is just in such a balance that even if one thing goes wrong in the grand scheme of things everything goes spalt!, its not coincidence, but you believe that it is, and thats fine with me, as a smart man once said, "you may not agree with me but i will defend your to do so to my death"edit: but i can also say with confidence that the notion that precisly placed molocules (as one theory states) that were struck by lightning are the parents of every living orginism on this planet is absolutely absurd. also i believe that organisms can evolve (glapogos islands), that is an observable given, but i also think that the idea that humans evolved from apes doesn't work becuase there are species of apes around; the theory of evolution only works through natural selection, so either the humanoid ape descendant or the ape had to die out, of which nither happened, hmmm also the aleged "humanoid species" found by scientists and others around the globe, many fave actualy been found to be misclasified species of baboons or hoaxes used for fame (unfortunatley textbok still havent been changed to acommodate the few or so "species" tha have been discounted. also the fact that mostly only one of each kind of skeleton was found in my opion is not enough to warant it to be taught in schools, of the early humanoids only cro-magnons and neanderthals have been truly proven to have been species of themselves. oh and lucy too, she is considered to be genuine (in my opion its just the retarded skeleton of a chimp, but thas ok too:silly:). but the debate rages on, and will probably never be resolved in this life... While I respect the "scientific Christian" approach, dude, if you accept that the delicate balance of life requires the deft hand of a creator being (such as the miraculous properties of water), just accept evolution. They are part of the same delicate balance, and where I see blind dumb luck you see providence. You can not pick and choose when it comes to how God made the world, because he DID want us to evolve from Apes. And all the evidence points to that. If God created the world, as you claim. Oh, and when I die I will either go to hell or nothing will happen. And I am cool with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrockster21 Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 edit: but i can also say with confidence that the notion that precisly placed molocules (as one theory states) that were struck by lightning are the parents of every living orginism on this planet is absolutely absurd. And this is absurd because?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOF44 Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 also to use another analogy with the big band theory. if i took a gas staion and it was in a theoretical vacum with no other matter in this alternate universe other than the gas station and i blew it up, the odds are very high that when gravity brings the matter back together it will never form a gas station again... not quite the same but you get the bigger idea implied by it Hey don't sell Benny Goodman and his Orchestra short. They can do maricles with music. :jk: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
70th Week Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 [quote name=Winslowalrob Oh, and when I die I will either go to hell or nothing will happen. And I am cool with that.[/quote] You are cool with that?I dont think I would be "cool" with a place that the bible desribes as "utter torment" or "outer darkness" or "a place of weeping and wailing and knashing of teeth" or "a place where men knaw their tongues for pain".I think I would be trying to avoid such a place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOF44 Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 I dont think I would be "cool" with a place that the bible desribes as "utter torment" or "outer darkness" or "a place of weeping and wailing and knashing of teeth" or "a place where men knaw their tongues for pain".I think I would be trying to avoid such a place. Wuss :jk: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winslowalrob Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 You are cool with that?I dont think I would be "cool" with a place that the bible desribes as "utter torment" or "outer darkness" or "a place of weeping and wailing and knashing of teeth" or "a place where men knaw their tongues for pain".I think I would be trying to avoid such a place. Well, you can avoid it if you want. I'll take my chances. You never know, maybe I'll see you there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
70th Week Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 Well, you can avoid it if you want. I'll take my chances. You never know, maybe I'll see you there! Hopefully not.Like I said I'll be trying to avoid it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PokerPacker Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 and christians say they don't use fear tactics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrockster21 Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 Oh, and when I die I will either go to hell or nothing will happen. And I am cool with that. That's assuming that the Christian religion is the right one...there are plenty of religions out there that don't believe in hell!! Just pray if you're wrong about God that one of the nicer religions is the right one! :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: Shoot...one of the reincarnation-believing religions could be right, and you get reborn as a snail, but that's better than fire and brimstone, right?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winslowalrob Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 That's assuming that the Christian religion is the right one...there are plenty of religions out there that don't believe in hell!! Just pray if you're wrong about God that one of the nicer religions is the right one! :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:Shoot...one of the reincarnation-believing religions could be right, and you get reborn as a snail, but that's better than fire and brimstone, right?! Southpark proved that Mormons got it right . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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