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Atheists: Alternatives to Creation?


Gigantor

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Some present the Kalam Cosmological Argument and it's supporting evidence as proof of creation. I find it a very reasonable hypothesis, here it is for your consideration:

1) Whatever begins to exist has a cause.

1a) Cause and Effect

1b) Self-evident common sense

2) The universe began to exist.

2a) The General Theory of Relativity

2b) The Big Bang Theory

2c) The Impossibility of Traversing Infinity

2d) Mathematical Proof the Universe Cannot be Past-Eternal

3) therefore, the universe has a cause.

I'm just curious, could an atheist here please postulate the most plausible, coherent alternative hypothesis to creation? Thanks.

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It's science and nature. Not necessarily some being - spiritual or otherwise - who some people believe controls the universe and their lives. Surely you don't believe that the notion that a god created the universe in six days and then rested to be the "most plausible, coherent hypothesis to creation" do you?

I'm not a scientist so I'll leave the details to them.

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I assume that this thread is an attempt to question (or attack) the beliefs of the athiests in the forum, so I recommend we all just give short precise answers, followed by Chuck Norris stories:

Wilt Chamberlain claims to have slept with 20,000 women in his life. Chuck Norris calls that a slow tuesday.

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(I'm not sure about the big bang but why couldnt the universe be like a)

Giant Dwarf Universe that shrunk in upon itself and then exploded.. Upon which when its done putting out atoms/such it draws it all back in..

Rinse/Repeat...

I mean if were talking about faith/principle/basics it sounds just as good as anything else my puny mind can think of right now...

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For a moment, let's grant that there IS a "creator" of some kind, some agent or 'prime mover.'

Why do VERY few of the theists I know, latch onto this idea of a vague notion of "God" but instead believe in a very specific and (if you ask me,) somewhat primitive understanding of God?

God could be "The Force" that animates all things but cannot be seen. We could die and that's it, even if there IS a God or Force. Perhaps God is like Q from Star Trek:TNG, the Prophets in the Celestial Temple over Bajor or maybe that Nagilum that was an amoral being of great power that was simply "curious."

Maybe the universe was created by the Force, while WE were created by super-intelligent beings that seeded various worlds with DNA. In which case, just like our parents, we owe far more to the direct creators than to the indirect one.

I'm agnostic, by the way, but I often find these questions are directed at me as much as anyone because I feel people are far too arrogant to make the leap from "there is SOMEthing" to "Jesus, Allah or some other specific notion of God."

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(I'm not sure about the big bang but why couldnt the universe be like a)

Giant Dwarf Universe that shrunk in upon itself and then exploded.. Upon which when its done putting out atoms/such it draws it all back in..

Rinse/Repeat...

I mean if were talking about faith/principle/basics it sounds just as good as anything else my puny mind can think of right now...

That's pretty much how I thought of it. But I see an infinite number of them all shrinking and exploding at the same time exerting forces on each other. This because I can't fathom that it all ends somewhere.

The other one I like is from a novel I read years ago where the solar system is a cell in an organism and....well you can take from there.

Of course none of this takes into account the theories involving multiple dimensional universes.

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That's pretty much how I thought of it. But I see an infinite number of them all shrinking and exploding at the same time exerting forces on each other. This because I can't fathom that it all ends somewhere.

The other one I like is from a novel I read years ago where the solar system is a cell in an organism and....well you can take from there.

Of course none of this takes into account the theories involving multiple dimensional universes.

1) Infinite number of shrinking and exploding universes? When was the beginning? The first?

2) Cell an an organism? Where did the organism come from?

3) Multiple dimentional universes? When did this all begin? The first?

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1) Infinite number of shrinking and exploding universes? When was the beginning? The first?

2) Cell an an organism? Where did the organism come from?

3) Multiple dimentional universes? When did this all begin? The first?

When you're speaking of something as nutty as multi-cellular universes and multiple dimensions, why do you need a Prime Mover?

A Prime Mover great enough to create such things---surely that would be complex enough to warrant there having to be a Creator of that Prime Mover, as well?

"It's turtles all the way down!"

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I'd rather try and figure out where the planet is we will need in 2-5 billion years when we have to move outta this block? A billion years.. thats hard enough to figure out.

In a BILLION years or more, I think we will have figured out how to keep our star from expanding and 'ending' Earth.

That or we will have successfully transferred our entire planet to another.

:)

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QUOTE=portisizzle]1) Infinite number of shrinking and exploding universes? When was the beginning? The first?

2) Cell an an organism? Where did the organism come from?

3) Multiple dimentional universes? When did this all begin? The first?

Yah got me. My post was off topic. Thiebear did a good job responding none the less.

My take,

1. How in the world would any of us know? <rhetorical> I know what you think.

2. just from a novel although I believe a chance mixture of amino acids could create life spontaneously.

3. See No. 1

This thread is just more vindication for my decision to be agnostic.

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I honestly believe it's God's intention for us as humans to raise questions about him.

It's when we realize that we, his children, can never come close to understanding his mysteries, that we will learn the details.

Free Will is sometimes uncomfortable, but God wants us to have it to gain a better faith.

just my 2 cents. Believe whatever you want. I know I will.

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