Loose Change 2nd Edition - More 9/11 conspiracy stuff....

[NoCalMike]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8260059923762628848&q=loose+change+2nd+edition

thoughts?

[dfitzo53]

I'll have to take a look at it when I have time to watch the whole thing, but some pretty solid evidence has been put up here in the past debunking these conspiracy theories.

It surprises me that stuff like this even persists on a message board based in D.C., given that a number of people in the area saw the plane coming down with their own two eyes.

[Air Force Cane]

there are so many haters out there who will always spin fantasies to suit their own psychological profiles..

if it was a setup- how are there 60 families from the airplane having funerals?

[Kilmer17]

99% of that isnt accurate. It's full of half truths and flat out lies.

[NoCalMike]

99% of that isnt accurate. It's full of half truths and flat out lies.

I didn't post the video, to swear by it as fact and/or truth, but for everyone calling the stuff flat out lies, just be my guest and debunk what you think is a flat out lie.

I will admit that calling 9/11 an inside job is a rather bold statement, but at the same time, between the video I just posted, other videos on this topic as well as books written on the topic etc....there is enough research out there to at least put some grey into the black/white of 9/11.

[NoCalMike]

there are so many haters out there who will always spin fantasies to suit their own psychological profiles..

if it was a setup- how are there 60 families from the airplane having funerals?

What does it being a setup have to do with funerals?

[NoCalMike]

I'll have to take a look at it when I have time to watch the whole thing, but some pretty solid evidence has been put up here in the past debunking these conspiracy theories.

It surprises me that stuff like this even persists on a message board based in D.C., given that a number of people in the area saw the plane coming down with their own two eyes.

Which plane are you speaking of? Because it is very telling, how DIFFERENT the first-hand eye witness accounts saw things compared to the final explanation of what happened.

[zoony]

with all due respect nocal... I'll wonder out loud about the psychological well being of those who would continue to give this kind of garbage life.

Not everything is a conspiracy. As a matter of fact, very, very, very, very, very few things are.

Conspiracies are perhaps the hardest thing of all to pull off, ESPECIALLY in the information age.

But mistakes, blunders, and finger pointing? That is commonplace. Look anywhere, you'll see it. What you have with most of this garbage is a money hungry or publicity hungry film producer who strings together a group of blunders and mistakes in a sequence that supports his/her own deluded opinion of what happened. Nothing more, nothing less. All it takes is for a segment of the population to WANT to believe this kind of stuff, and all of a sudden they have a gig. Hell, I can't blame them... it certainly beats working at McDonalds. Maybe I'll make a few movies... I need some cash.

The government can't even deliver the mail. Hell, Sony can't even install spyware on its music CD's without making front page headlines. :doh:

There

Was

No

Conspiracy.

Why don't you WANT to believe that? You want no part of that theory... but you'll lend credence to the other in no time flat. Honest question... why is that?

[edgun88]

I wont beleive any of this stuff.... this is just out there to scare people. So many subliminal messages in that videos....videos like this are so stupid

[NoCalMike]

with all due respect nocal... I'll wonder out loud about the psychological well being of those who would continue to give this kind of garbage life.

Not everything is a conspiracy. As a matter of fact, very, very, very, very, very few things are.

Conspiracies are perhaps the hardest thing of all to pull off, ESPECIALLY in the information age.

But mistakes, blunders, and finger pointing? That is commonplace. Look anywhere, you'll see it. What you have with most of this garbage is a money hungry or publicity hungry film producer who strings together a group of blunders and mistakes in a sequence that supports his/her own deluded opinion of what happened. Nothing more, nothing less. All it takes is for a segment of the population to WANT to believe this kind of stuff, and all of a sudden they have a gig. Hell, I can't blame them... it certainly beats working at McDonalds. Maybe I'll make a few movies... I need some cash.

The government can't even deliver the mail. Hell, Sony can't even install spyware on its music CD's without making front page headlines. :doh:

There

Was

No

Conspiracy.

Why don't you WANT to believe that? You want no part of that theory... but you'll lend credence to the other in no time flat. Honest question... why is that?

So what is the difference between this........

All it takes is for a segment of the population to WANT to believe this kind of stuff, and all of a sudden they have a gig. Hell, I can't blame them... [/quote}

and...then applying that same logic to the statement. "We are in Iraq to liberate the iraqi people and hunt down al qaeda"

Look, read my posts in this thread again, I didn't post the link to say "look everyone, the truth is here" I simply am, personally, open to discussion, and when coincidences arise, I believe there is reason enough to explore, investigate and research such coincidences. Like I said, there is always a lot more gray than black/white no matter how much people want to convince themselves otherwise.

[NoCalMike]

I wont beleive any of this stuff.... this is just out there to scare people. So many subliminal messages in that videos....videos like this are so stupid

"Out there to scare people" Did you listen to the SOTU? Or this administration the last four years, all they have done is try to scare people, over and over, into submission, until we are in the state we are in now where people are actually crazy enough to be willing to rip up the constitution. Who is scaring whom, buddy?

[zoony]

Mike... that is fine if you just want a debate . I just get really frustrated at this nonsense.

But I don't know what any of this has to do with the war in Iraq... or how it makes any of these conspiracy stories any more believable to even bring that up. :2cents:

[NoCalMike]

Mike... that is fine if you just want a debate . I just get really frustrated at this nonsense.

But I don't know what any of this has to do with the war in Iraq... or how it makes any of these conspiracy stories any more believable to even bring that up. :2cents:

Well if you are not familiar with THe Project for the New American Century. Go read up on it, here I'll even point you in the right direction http://www.newamericancentury.org/ Read this and then try to tell me that this has nothing to do with the Iraq War.

[dfitzo53]

Which plane are you speaking of? Because it is very telling, how DIFFERENT the first-hand eye witness accounts saw things compared to the final explanation of what happened.

Want to hear a story about eye-witness accounts? A while back we had a duffel-bag full of tapes stolen from Blockbuster. The police were called, and an officer came by to take statements. One employee said the getaway car was a blue Ford, one said it was a green Toyota, and one said it was a green Chevy. The police had almost nothing to go on, but that doesn't change the fact that someone made off with our tapes and we all watched the same person get into the same car and drive away.

[mistymjohnson]

Mike, that was a very interesting video that you posted - Thank you! I do not support it... Nor do I completely discharge it. However, I believe that the current administration covered some things up regarding 9/11 (for whatever reason... and perhaps even legitimate reasons at that). It would not be the first time that an administration did such... And I certainly doubt it will be the last time. (This is in no way a hate post regarding the current administration).

[NoCalMike]

Want to hear a story about eye-witness accounts? A while back we had a duffel-bag full of tapes stolen from Blockbuster. The police were called, and an officer came by to take statements. One employee said the getaway car was a blue Ford, one said it was a green Toyota, and one said it was a green Chevy. The police had almost nothing to go on, but that doesn't change the fact that someone made off with our tapes and we all watched the same person get into the same car and drive away.

Nice story, but I don't think it clears anything up much. :cool:

[dfitzo53]

Nice story, but I don't think it clears anything up much. :cool:

I didn't say that in and of itself it cleared anything up, but I'm sure you understand my point.

[Cdowwe]

9/11 was not an inside job. There was no conspiracy. It was the lowest lifeforms on Earth that attacked us. Dont ever forget it.

[NoCalMike]

9/11 was not an inside job. There was no conspiracy. It was the lowest lifeforms on Earth that attacked us. Dont ever forget it.

Well if you aren't open to watching the video before making a statement, then so be it. I am not trying to change your mind here, just trying to provoke discussion.

[TheSteve]

I really havent' seen any plausible reasoning or evidence on how the government could get away with covering up something like this. The corruption would have to go from the bottom up. It only takes one whistle blower, right?

On the other hand, I'm the who's always saying all politicians are corrupt. So maybe the United States government planned the crashing of those planes. Wake me up when there's solid evidence.

[NoCalMike]

I really havent' seen any plausible reasoning or evidence on how the government could get away with covering up something like this. The corruption would have to go from the bottom up. It only takes one whistle blower, right?

On the other hand, I'm the who's always saying all politicians are corrupt. So maybe the United States government planned the crashing of those planes. Wake me up when there's solid evidence.

Did you watch the video link I posted? If not, find an hour or so of free time, watch it and then post your thoughts.

[Cdowwe]

Well if you aren't open to watching the video before making a statement, then so be it. I am not trying to change your mind here, just trying to provoke discussion.

Ive seen those videos all over the web for the past 4 years. I know youre not trying to change my mind...just dont like whackos creating crap like this. And no, I dont think youre a whacko. Im always up for discussion.

[mjah]

Okay, so I just sat down and watched that "Loose Change" video all the way through, from start to finish. A friend dropped in for the middle 50% of it.

I don't know what to say. So I'll just say this much:

It is complete garbage, even more embarrassing than the "moon landing hoax" TV special from a few years back. I am now 80 minutes closer to dying, and with absolutely nothing to show for it. Total waste of time.

Seriously. If that's the best so-called "documentary" out there for "proving" that there was a 9/11 conspiracy, then it's safe to say that anyone putting any serious stock in the conspiracy theories is a f*$^ing moron. A gullible idiot suffering from a most unfortunate slew of mental disabilities.

There are not enough hours left in the week to itemize all the things wrong with that video. Even putting aside the obvious issues, like:

- A complete lack of coherent logic evident in 95% of the running time;

- Narration that apparently was done by a barely pubescent high schooler; and

- Zero substantive evidence of any kind supporting any of the major claims

...there are still about eleventy billion things wrong with it.

The thing is written like a newly empowered college freshman's first letter to the editor of the college paper: Overwrought, self-absorbed, blissfully unaware of its own major flaws, and utterly unconvincing even to a marginally intelligent audience.

In a word, sad.

You know, part of me was hoping to pull something out of the video that would make me wonder if it really was a conspiracy. Some undeniable nugget of truth, backed by a reliable attribution, that would make me say, "Wait a second. Something's wrong here. No way could that have just been a terrorist attack." Or maybe just a little spark of doubt. Some convincing argument, some rhetorical cleverness that by its own simple wisdom would easily bring a natural skeptic like me around to the idea that 9/11 could reasonably have been something -- anything -- other than Al Qaeda.

This video didn't just fail piecemeal at that task. It failed comprehensively, top to bottom. It's laughable detritus.

And I was interested in being convinced! What a piece of crap.

[chomerics]

I have watched about 1/2 an hour of it, and it is complete bunk. . .

Some of the thinkgs I caught.

Aircrafts are made out of aluninum, the only titanium parts are the engine blades and landing gear. Eyewitness accounts are not reliable. The sonic boom of the F-15's circling over DC was the sound of "second explosion", a plane travelling at 500+ MPH would rip apart a telephone pole made out of low strength aluminum, the timeline was off. . . way off, the phone call from the reporter who was on the plane that crashed into the pentagon was left out. THe passengers who died on the plane that hit the pentagon were left out. The menlting temperature of aluminum is way way below the melt temp of ti, and it is a hell of a lot softer, the picture did not show the entrance way. . .

Man, that is just of the top of my head, if I had had a lot of time, I could totally rip apart every single thing this thing says. Mike, you need to stop being so gullable, I loath the administration, but I still need evidence to make a claim like this. All this kid used was eye wtiness testimony which was all completely screwed up that day, and everything was chatoic. Not the best thing to go on, especially when we have videos of the planes flying into the building.

BTW, he first argues that the plane could not have disentegrated, yet he then argues the fact that the place the plane hit was fortified to withstand a plane. It is just complete bunk.

[Bonez3]

1/2 hour in and I feel that alot of energy and RESEARCH was definetely put into this. Those posting that it is 'lacking any evidence/support' are the one's ending there defense with that statement- pot meet kettle.

Anyway, it has the same problem the conspiracy and real theorists have, there is a total lack of accuracy involving that day no matter how you look at it.

But, the first five minutes is grabbing, I don't care who you are. Very suspicious events leading into 9/11 which many have chronicled and questioned. 'Why did some know' was whispered about.