Kilmer17 Posted February 8, 2006 Share Posted February 8, 2006 I think I need to point out that I have no problem believing that a Military Jet shot down flight 93. I just happen to think that is a more likely scenario than what is desribed as happening. Where I draw the line is the thought that this was known in advance, scripted, or even remotely endorsed by any part of our Govt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baculus Posted February 8, 2006 Share Posted February 8, 2006 Hokie, the Information Age does not matter if folks will believe what they want to believe, no matter what. That isn't bad, per se, but if there is a story that has a bit of truth, whatever that story may be, it will probably get ignored if people do not want to believe it. And no matter how much information is available. And 9-11 happened with 19 conspirators, with probably a small group of planners - at least according to the official story. Why would it then take a huge number of people to pull off 9-11 as an inside job? Where I draw the line is the thought that this was known in advance, scripted, or even remotely endorsed by any part of our Govt. So, do you believe that Operation Northwoods was false? If you admit that the potential has been there...then perhaps 9-11 is tiny bit more believable. BTW, I woudn't have considered these theories soon after 9-11 - it took me time to observe and to find at least some of it plausible. If you do not believe, just from your own beliefs, that the government would never do that, then any available information is useless to you anyway since you will always categorically reject it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baculus Posted February 8, 2006 Share Posted February 8, 2006 maybe I was dreaming, but wasn't there an ENTIRE 9/11 COMMISSION which spent years looking into the events of that day? No, it was THAT same 9-11 Commission that shamed the memory of those who died on 9-11. And they didn't spend years on the investigation, but months. Heck, the Bush administration tried to prevent the investigation from happening in the first place. And what was the total budget given for the investigation? $3 million dollars. THREE MILLION. That is it - it was later raised after many complaints from congressman. And that was after the Bush administration, at first, denied funding to the 9-11 comission in the first place. Why would they want such an investigation to not even occur? Did you know that, Air Force Cane? http://www.interventionmag.com/cms/modules.php?file=article&name=News&op=modload&sid=447 I'll tell you this much - if any of my family died on 9-11, I would want an investigation immediately. And you guys wonder why some folks are paranoid about the government's story? I think it is INCREDIBLY ironic that those who are pushing for a DEEPER investigation, you would refer to as being "nearly treasonous" as well as "shaming the memory" of those who died, while Bush himself actually tried to block the investigation from happening in the first place. Who is shaming whose memory? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Air Force Cane Posted February 8, 2006 Share Posted February 8, 2006 I bet you are one of those who believe "the Jews" were tipped off about what was happening- and all left the WTC before the attacks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baculus Posted February 8, 2006 Share Posted February 8, 2006 I bet you are one of those who believe "the Jews" were tipped off about what was happening- and all left the WTC before the attacks? Where were Jews mentioned? You brought that up and not me, my friend! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baculus Posted February 8, 2006 Share Posted February 8, 2006 BTW, Airforce, I think it was in poor taste to ignore my points in response to your own (such as your assertions about the 9-11 commission), and the only response you have is to throw something out about a jewish conspiracy. I guess if you cannot debate the point at hand, and you're out of talking points, it is time to break out the cheap shots! Of course, this isn't the first time that has happened... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmchairRedskin Posted February 8, 2006 Share Posted February 8, 2006 Did they ever come up with a good explanation why building 7 collapsed and why there were explosions heard from that building before it went down? I remember the reports on the news and nobody seemed to know why that building didn't stay standing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skins24 Posted February 8, 2006 Share Posted February 8, 2006 I would disagree, but I probably read more of the "conspiracy" websites, books, and watch the movies than you do. It is all relative to what we think we know (and that includes me). But there is a large volume of work that questions the entire 9-11 series of events...a very large volume. Just Google "9-11 conspiracy" and you'll find an amazing array (and variation in quality) of websites surrounding this issue. You should not presume to know all there is to know, or has been presented, regarding these events. Heck, I have been researching for a while and keeping finding new details. I don't know.... I post on a lot of MBs, and I think I have more posts here http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/index.php than any other site other than Extreme. (anyone who thinks the discussions of religion and politics are bad here...you haven't seen anything...) 9/11 section: http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/118/pg1/srtpages Almost 3000 posts thread on the Pentagon http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread79655/pg1 Also, as I posted earlier, the website, http://www.physics911.net/, has demonstrated, at least in their tests, that cell phone calls are very difficult at altitudes at least 2000 feet and up. If a grandiose conspiracy to "create" the calls were created, then the "cell phone" conversations, at least some of them, didn't happen. I'd like to hear counter-claims if these altitude - cell phone tests are flawed. lol, I must have missed the part that said all calls were made at the same time at the same altitude. Forgive me. Regarding the passengers..... Not just the passengers. Where's the PLANE? I have yet to hear anybody talk about where the plane went. Planes just don't disappear. And it's impossible for a plane to land in the middle of no where, discard passengers, then take flight again all undetected and all within the 8 minutes it disapeared from radar. I am not aware of any larger planes ever hitting a skyscraper (other than the plane that hit the Empire State Building early in the 20th century) - it was basically a first. But, what was also a first were buildings collapsing from a fire. This unto itself is an entire debate regarding the collapse of the Twin Towers. How did the fires start? They started because A PLANE CRASHED INTO THEM. The towers didn't collapse because of the fires alone. They collapsed because of the fires and more importantly the structual damage. I'd like to know how any demolition crews placed explosives right where the planes would go in. How how they placed them undetected. Regarding WTC 7, even the damage from the shot you showed wasn't enough for a building collapsed. After all, next to the Twin Towers were several buildings that were even more damaged then WTC 7. But where those buildings pulled? No. (Incidentally, it was even remarked even by Silverstein, controller of WTC 7 and the Twin Towers, that the building was "pulled," which you can even see the crown-collapse from the "demolition." In short, the building did not collapse, and if that is the case, how did they plant the explosives so quickly? The link I posted had better pics and info.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baculus Posted February 8, 2006 Share Posted February 8, 2006 I actually don't post on any such boards - I post on Redskins and gaming boards. But I have gone and looked around the Above Top Secret website and message forums. lol, I must have missed the part that said all calls were made at the same time at the same altitude. Forgive me. I never said they were. In that particular website's study, they noticed at a certain altitude and up, they had difficulty in making cell phone calls from a plane. I am not sure if I understand your response, though. I have yet to hear anybody talk about where the plane went. Planes just don't disappear.And it's impossible for a plane to land in the middle of no where, discard passengers, then take flight again all undetected and all within the 8 minutes it disapeared from radar. Did you read the article I posted? It disappeared for longer than 8 minutes off of radar. And that wouldn't be impossible for such an event to have happened, even within 8 minutes. And really, you would just switch planes - all within 8 minutes, that is easy (Even outside of Hollywood). If I knew where the plane was, I'd write a book. :-) How did the fires start?They started because A PLANE CRASHED INTO THEM. The towers didn't collapse because of the fires alone. They collapsed because of the fires and more importantly the structual damage. I'd like to know how any demolition crews placed explosives right where the planes would go in. How how they placed them undetected. Well, if you look at how the Twin Towers were built, the main strength of the structures were the support columns in the middle of the buildings. The issue of the fire causing collapse is most certainly not enough, since fire by itself has never, ever caused a skyscraper to collapse - remember the skyscraper in Spain, earlier this year, that burnt from top to bottom and didn't collapse? (And I mean literally, from top to bottom.) In such as conspiracy scenario, you would plant explosives from top to bottom on the building at select spots. The issue is, that 1) Witness said they heard explosions that sounded like bombs, even after the plane crashed. This includs fireman. As well as 2) You can see what appears to resemble detonation "plumes" coming out of the WTC as it collapsed (which plausibly could be debris expelling from the building as it collapses). So, the scenarious isn't impossible - the question is, of course, if it is likely it happened. And, yeah, you will find much better info around the 'net the short posts that I make, especially after I even try to make them short (if that is laughable). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan T. Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 Sad. Just very, very sad that this rises up every few months and gets any credence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westbrook36 Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 It saddens me that there are people in America who are so stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoCalMike Posted February 9, 2006 Author Share Posted February 9, 2006 I posted this, not to even claim it was a fact. Whether you believe the government's official explanation on the events of 9/11 or not, there are still a lot of questions about it that haven't been answered. Does that mean it indicates our government has something to do with it? Of course not, but that is besides the point. Like I said, I posted this video purely for discusssion purposes, not to say "look I have found the truth" The worst part about this thread is the sheer number of "You are dumb" replies. I was really hoping to provoke better discussion then that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Mike Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 The worst part about this thread is the sheer number of "You are dumb" replies. I was really hoping to provoke better discussion then that. Really? Then the next time, maybe you should consider posting something worthy of better discussion. Not crap. :doh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarhog Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 I think 'provoke' is the operative word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan T. Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 Here's what I believe. Five men boarded American Airlines Flight 77 at Dulles Airport the morning of September 11, bound for Los Angeles, part of a larger plot involving at least 14 other co-conspirators who overtook 3 other U.S. flights that morning. In flight, they overpowered the crew, commandeered the plane and turned back toward Washington, DC. After circling the region, they approached from the south and steered the Boeing 757 into the side of the Pentagon, killing all on board and dozens of people in the building. Tell me which of the above is not true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edgun88 Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 "Out there to scare people" Did you listen to the SOTU? Or this administration the last four years, all they have done is try to scare people, over and over, into submission, until we are in the state we are in now where people are actually crazy enough to be willing to rip up the constitution. Who is scaring whom, buddy? Man now after i watch this video i kinda see that what we know as the truth isnt the whole truth. Im sure about 90% of what happened during the 9/11 attacks the american people do not know about. Really it would be ralatively easy for the government to stage something like that, but the lone question is.....................why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonez3 Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 It saddens me that there are people in America who are so stupid. Westbrook, I don't consider myself stupid, yet I entertain the idea that there may have been a conspiracy involving certain American citizens and elsewise. I can't defend it, either does the movie for that matter. But, I keep asking the board to explain the trading the week prior to the attacks. THAT LENDS CREEDENCE TO A CONSPIRACY TO ME. I never accuse the gov't, as a whole. It doesn't take a gov't as a whole, just very wealth and powerful individuals. To quote a movie, but I think it is relevant, 'the Devil's gratest trick was fooling people into believing he didn't exist'. If you believe that a handful of very wealthy and powerful men and women couldn't devise this scheme, than you never will-DOESN'T MAKE YOU STUPID OR RIGHT. I mean, realistically, 19 shmoes pulled off the greatest attack ever on American soil in 200 years with plastic letter openers. I'm sure that would be believable before 9/11/2001. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 Man now after i watch this video i kinda see that what we know as the truth isnt the whole truth. Im sure about 90% of what happened during the 9/11 attacks the american people do not know about. Really it would be ralatively easy for the government to stage something like that, but the lone question is.....................why? The Devil made them do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan T. Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 Westbrook, I don't consider myself stupid, yet I entertain the idea that there may have been a conspiracy involving certain American citizens and elsewise.I can't defend it, either does the movie for that matter. But, I keep asking the board to explain the trading the week prior to the attacks. THAT LENDS CREEDENCE TO A CONSPIRACY TO ME. I never accuse the gov't, as a whole. It doesn't take a gov't as a whole, just very wealth and powerful individuals. To quote a movie, but I think it is relevant, 'the Devil's gratest trick was fooling people into believing he didn't exist'. If you believe that a handful of very wealthy and powerful men and women couldn't devise this scheme, than you never will-DOESN'T MAKE YOU STUPID OR RIGHT. I mean, realistically, 19 shmoes pulled off the greatest attack ever on American soil in 200 years with plastic letter openers. I'm sure that would be believable before 9/11/2001. No one is saying those 19 didn't have l LOT of training and financial backing. It was a conspiracy, involving Al-Queda. I read that Osama Bin Laden and his Al-Queda financiers have boasted about playing the U.S. stock market in the days leading up to 9/11, knowing ahead of time the plot that was to unfold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrimReefa Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 My thoughts... I find it hard to believe that the government could pull off a conspiracy this evil without somebody saying something. The Watergate scandal and cover-up, while a blatant misuse of executive authority, was nowhere NEAR the same level as the mass-murder of thousands of innocent civilians, and yet that had a whistleblower. The government has not been forthcoming about the 9/11 attacks (to this day the only reason we've been given for the attacks is "the terrorists hate our freeedom", whatever the hell that means...), but this seems like a bit of a stretch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skins24 Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 Really it would be ralatively easy for the government to stage something like that.... Not in 9 months. And define "easy" You would have to find Americans willing to work for the government for the sole purpose of killing other Americans. You would have to get them to lead normal lives. You would have to pay them millions of dollars or more to get them to work for you and to keep quite. You would have to either pay or brainwash dozens if not hundreds of other people and eyewitnesses to keep quiet. You would have to find Arabs willing to kill themselves knowing full well what it would mean for their religion and countries (ok, maybe that's easy...). You would have to pay millions if not more to demolition companies to magically place explosives in the exact spot that the planes will enter all undetected and for them to keep quite. You would have to pay millions of dollars if not more to pay the road crews or airport in which the planes magically wound up to discard the passengers and be replaced to keep quite. Hundreds, even thousands of people you would have had to pay to keep quite. Not one leak? Don't think so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seabee1973 Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 Here is something to think about Passenger jets are not made to with stand high tempatyures and crashes like that. I was in california for the flight that crashed into the ocean and the largest piece of that the recovered was not very big and the ocean temp is not hot The plane ripped apart at impact of the water. SO if a plane rips apart like that on water imagine what it is gonna do on a harder substance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seabee1973 Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 Man now after i watch this video i kinda see that what we know as the truth isnt the whole truth. Im sure about 90% of what happened during the 9/11 attacks the american people do not know about. Really it would be ralatively easy for the government to stage something like that, but the lone question is.....................why? And keep it a secret? you smoking what? Our government cant kep anything a secret. If it was a conspiracy it would have ben known before it happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrimReefa Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 OmG, I can't believe what I'm reading. I bring to you, "The Liberals of America" ladies and gentlemen. Let's give them a big round of applause. :applause: :doh: LMAO...this is not "The Liberals of America". Chromerics is a liberal. As am I. Neither of us put much stock in this video. Have you seen Jon Stewart mention this video? Bill Press? James Carville? Tim Robbins? Keith Olberman? George Soros? Michael Moore? Also, the Conservatives had plenty of their own tinfoil hat DVDs during the Clinton administration. They would have had you believe that Bill had an army of hitmen at his command murdering anyone who stood in his way. The Conservatives of America... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonez3 Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 No one is saying those 19 didn't have l LOT of training and financial backing. It was a conspiracy, involving Al-Queda.I read that Osama Bin Laden and his Al-Queda financiers have boasted about playing the U.S. stock market in the days leading up to 9/11, knowing ahead of time the plot that was to unfold. Well, this is more of what I was looking for and even suggesting. Indeed, a conspiracy that involves bin Laden. But, how do you have traders that are connected enough to place these trades and not be traced back and thus uncovered. I would be pretty interested in those individuals placing those bets that week. Haven't heard who that was yet, to me that is like finding a DNA specimen at the crime scene- doesn't mean that person did it, but they better have motive and alibi that they didn't Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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