The lessons we learned from Brett Conway in '01 that we should with JohnHall now

[goldenster95]

Let's hearken back to 1999. We were NFC East Champs. Clinched on the last week of the season, I believe against the Niners on a Sunday Night game in overtime. Larry Centers takes a screen from Brad Johnson and runs it in for a TD. We finish 10-6, win our first playoff game, and then exit in the divisional round in a game we should have won.

Building on this momentum, we were then poised for greatness in Y2K.

Unfortunately, all such expectations don't pan out as expected. And that's exactly what happened the next year. In 2000, we definitely could've replicated what we did in 1999, but ran through a firestorm of problems and injuries that no one could've foreseen. Throughout it all, however, we could've easily gone 11-5 but for one thing.

Our kicker. Or kickers. Let's not forget that we had gimpy Brett Conway to begin the season. Instead of relying on him, we cut him only to start off a careening carousel of abjectly incompetent kickers that missed extra points and field goals within 25 yards that cost us at least three games.

Sound familiar?

Well, it all should.

The lesson? We'd better poop or get off the pot with Hall NOW. I say that he's too weak to get his kickoffs deep enough and that he's just too injury prone for our needs. We'd be much better served looking at someone like Van der Jagt, who, by the way, kicked better outdoors than indoors this season. And someone elsewhere pointed out that we could use Janikowski as a kickoff guy. That sounds pretty decent, but we'd better be scoring enough to make sure he gets enough kickoffs to justify his pay.

At any rate, it's time for some serious soul searching. And let's not repeat what we had with Conway in 2000.

[H-O-G]

Nick Novak is still sitting on the cardinals roster behind probowl kicker Neil Rackers

[cyrrok]

or van der jacka**?

[Jordan086]

I agree. Every week in the NFL games are decided by special teams. We need to figure out our kicker situation. Hall has shown that his leg isn't as strong as it used to be, but if he is the guy that's fine. Start getting him healthy now. If not, we need to figure something else out. It would be terrible to start the season off with Hall, have him go down, and then have to scramble to find a new kicker.

[herrmag]

I'm still upset about Novak. I usually agree with Gibbs' decisions, but I really hated that idea. We had a franchise kicker fall in our laps (maybe it's a little premature, but I think he's quality) and we let him go. :doh:

[Res_Novae]

What happened to Kimrin?

[kom526]

I think it was a bad snap, not a missed kick in the playoff game (Skins V Bucs, 13-14) that cost us the game.

Bring Novak back, get rid of that p.o.s. Hall and keep Frost.

[just skins baby]

How about Conor Hughes from UVa? Doesn't he have a good leg?

[TheLongshot]

I'm still upset about Novak. I usually agree with Gibbs' decisions, but I really hated that idea. We had a franchise kicker fall in our laps (maybe it's a little premature, but I think he's quality) and we let him go. :doh:

It is a bit early to be calling Novak a "franchise kicker" now, considering the guy hasn't even played a season. Certainly, he has potential, but you never know what the reality will end up being with these young guys.

With young guys, it seems to be a crap shoot if you got a good one or not. That's why guys who may not have the range are kept around, because they can still make that key field goal.

Hall only missed two kicks all year, and both were at the upper end of his range. The only question is the injury problem, and is it going to continue? That's up to what they have seen out of Hall. It is very possible that he was never completely healthy during the season, and rest will return some of the old Hall.

Jason

[SkinsHokieFan]

How about Conor Hughes from UVa? Doesn't he have a good leg?

I would LOVE to see this team bring in Connor Hughes

The kid is clutch and has a great leg. Not bad on kickoffs either

The problem is he looks like he is 12 :laugh:

Other then that, he is a terrific kicker

[kevinklein]

Oh, I cringed when I read the name Brett Conway. Don't let it all come back to me, please.

[SkinsNumberOne]

At any rate, it's time for some serious soul searching. And let's not repeat what we had with Conway in 2000.

Your example sounds more like reasoning to keep Hall around, at least until there is a good replacement available. Not saying there isn't one, but your example should remind some of our more reactive fans of what happens when you jump the gun with what you have and end up going through kicker hell. I've thought of the same example with friends, and came up with a different conclusion.

[IM A REDSKIN FAN]

I'll start the Chant now:

WE WANT NOVAK WE WANT NOVAK!

[SkinsFTW]

I think Gibbs made a mistake with keeping Hall but he probably didn't want to make the mistake he almost made with Mosely before his MVP season. They were real close to trading him but it didn't work out, then he had his MVP year and won at least 4-5 of our 8 wins for us.

[Major Harris]

the hometown kids get way too much cred around here. even i was guilty last year screaming for us to draft pacman. but nick novak a franchise kicker? franchise kickers put the ball in the endzone on kick offs, not the 10-15 yard line. draft connor hughes? it's a crapshoot, fellas. only sure bets are guys that have proven themselves in the nfl, i.e. mike vanderjagt.

i do agree with goldy on this though. john hall reminds me of conway so much, it was like goldy took this post right out of MY brain. get out of there..... :paranoid:

[daNattyFatty]

i think we need a new kicker and punter. derrick frost is not the answer either at punter.

[Blondie]

Our punter is Tom Tupa. He was on IR.

He should be back this season in place of Frost.

A healthy Hall is very hard to beat.

Blondie

[jimster]

I'm still upset about Novak. I usually agree with Gibbs' decisions, but I really hated that idea. We had a franchise kicker fall in our laps (maybe it's a little premature, but I think he's quality) and we let him go. :doh:

I guess everyone forgets the extra points he got blocked and the fact his range is only about 40, but unfortunately, so is Hall's.

If Hall was money on field goals I wouldn't mind keeping a second kicker to kick off, but the problem is Hall hasn't been that great at that either and will cost us $3 mil in 2006 if we keep him.

Tupa will be back at punter at least.

[Mattskins83]

I dont know why all you guys hang on Novaks jock. Hes garbage. Two of his kicks were blocked because he kicks too low, and his kickoffs were short. Not to say Halls havent been as of late, but the guys injured as well

[redskins4life234]

Not to be the party pooper but didnt novack get blocked 2 or 3 times this yr because he kicks kinda low?

[sableholic]

Not to be the party pooper but didnt novack get blocked 2 or 3 times this yr because he kicks kinda low?

Shhhhh don't kill their dream

[Beaudry]

John Hall's career "power" stats are:

YR 40+ 50+

97 2-6 4-6

98 6-10 1-3

99 7-12 0-0

00 6-12 1-3

01 7-9 3-6

02 6-10 0-1

03 6-9 4-7

04 1-3 0-1

05 5-6 0-1

KICKOFFS

YR Avg TB's

97 66.6 29

98 67.8 24

99 66.0 12

00 64.6 9

01 63.3 9

02 62.4 5

03 61.5 11

04 60.8 1

05 60.5 1

As you can see, he previously had a powerful leg for FG's and kickoffs. Now the numbers show that Hall doesn't have the leg strength anymore. This could be due to injuries, but it could be partially due to naturally aging. I thought Hall never looked right all year long.

[Tarpon75]

I believe the Skins should keep Hall if they believe some of his shortcomings this year were health related.He has been a solid nfl kicker throughout his carreer until the last 2 seasons when he started having injury issues.Are his problems age related or injury related?I tend to believe it is injuries that have caused the problems.Given Hall's physical attributes I would have to say that leg strength shouldn't be an issue.Janikowski is not an option in my opinion, as his kickoffs are no better than Hall's from what I have seen.

[RIDETHEWALRUS]

It is a bit early to be calling Novak a "franchise kicker" now, considering the guy hasn't even played a season. Certainly, he has potential, but you never know what the reality will end up being with these young guys.

With young guys, it seems to be a crap shoot if you got a good one or not. That's why guys who may not have the range are kept around, because they can still make that key field goal.

Hall only missed two kicks all year, and both were at the upper end of his range. The only question is the injury problem, and is it going to continue? That's up to what they have seen out of Hall. It is very possible that he was never completely healthy during the season, and rest will return some of the old Hall.

Jason

Problem is the "upper end of his range" is now somewhere around 38 yards. If the guy could get healthy again, he will return to being an outstanding player.

About Nick Novak. It is way too early to call him a franchise kicker. I just thought his start here was amazingly similar to his start at UMD where he went on to be a Lou Groza finalist (I think 2x but am not sure).

Everybody that keeps suggessting Connor Hughes. The guy is definitely a good kicker, but saying we should spend a 3rd rounder on a kicker is just ridiculous, especially considering the other issues we need to address. Like you said, you just never know what you are going to get from a young kicker (see Kaeding blowing it for the Bolts last year).

[Mordy]

I think it was a bad snap, not a missed kick in the playoff game (Skins V Bucs, 13-14) that cost us the game.

Bring Novak back, get rid of that p.o.s. Hall and keep Frost.

Keep Frost? Is that what you meant to say? Say it isn't so..