Wise - After a Shove, a Fall From Grace (Lavar Shouting Match w/Coach after Sat game)

[Ghost of]

You changed gears on me - O thought we were talking about motivation and how people react.

Well, I was making a point that it's pointLESS to treat everyone the same and that I understand the pressures involved, but since we have been winning with Lavar on the field and performing better against the run and certain other horizontal plays, that maybe feeling "more" pressure during a good period made little sense.

[great28]

He finally hung up on Lindsey, and the feud carried over into the locker room, growing more profane and personal. It ended with Arrington telling Lindsey to "Back off!" and "Treat me like a man!" According to two persons privy to the altercation, the coach went a tad more overboard than the player.

This is where I part from the coaching staff on dealing with this issue. I serve the in USAF and they teach us that whenever a person needs to be reprimanded, make sure to take that person, one on one, behind closed doors. Not on any circumstance should you call out an individual, curse, belittle, or toss out personal attacks with the individual being reprimanded, especially in front of others. Should Lavar have hung up on him? No. But I will say this: The one thing you cannot deny is that Lavar gives his 110% when he's out there on the field. You see, sometimes you have to be careful as a coach not to beat a dead horse until it's nothing but carcuss. If what Lindsay was doing wasn't getting to Lavar, then maybe he should have tried another tactic.

I'm not saying Lavar is right, and I'm not saying Coach Lindsay is right. What I am saying is that I wasn't in the lockerroom or on the field so I will not jump on the "Get Lavar outta here" bandwagon.

I also notice alot of you out there seem to think that we are better off without Lavar. Well not a healthy Lavar. Just because our defense has looked good over the past few weeks, doesn't mean it couldn't have been better with him. Who knows, with Lavar in on 3rd downs, maybe we shut out Dallas.

You just never know.

[Ghost of]

for all the frustration Arrington shows for being taken down by the coaches, I am sure Lindsay and the other defensive coaches are frustrated for having to show a 6th year player in the NFL repeatedly how to run basic plays and get into position when they have younger guys like Sean Taylor and Carlos Rogers that seem to be making better progress in becoming all-around consistent defenders

And that they brought those guys in had NO impact on it and man, was that Holdman held accountable for his mistakes and not getting off blocks, eh?!

[arrowhead]

Again, we're looking at a player who takes his issues to the court of public opinion in hopes that it will incite a riot among mediots and the organization. How ironic that these same writers are the ones that were trashing the entire team not so long ago? Now, they'll take anything they can to smear the luster off what should be the absolute brightest part of the last 12 years. Thank you UnWise Mike for doing your part to show just how wide the chasm between the Post and the Redskins continues to be.

[great28]

I love the closing of that article. "Did they win because of dumping Arrington, no, they won in spite of it... blah blah..."

Hey, Wisea$$ - they WON.

LaVar is a great player. But he's also an egotistical player who got too big for his britches. Forget this crap - he's gone after this year anyway, and he can play out his career in rewind on another crappy team, making 9 good plays and giving up the one run for a TD.

BD

Oh so you know Lavar personally?

[JimmiJo]

Well, I was making a point that it's pointLESS to treat everyone the same and that I understand the pressures involved, but since we have been winning with Lavar on the field and performing better against the run and certain other horizontal plays, that maybe feeling "more" pressure during a good period made little sense.

You may be right, I don't know. I just think that my limited exerpience with football and organized sports in general usually ended up with someone calling me a walking pile of pig$hit. I didn't like it, but as long as it was uniformly applied (notice I did not say fairly) then I was good with it.

How many clips of Parcells chewing someone out have we seen? Or other coaches for that matter? My impression is that is the way it is in the sport.

[evucci]

I think we're all overlooking 1 VERY important part of this. If Arrington goes to another team- we lose a linebacker in Madden 2007 with a 92 rating. That just sucks!!!!!

[Jumbo]

I understand that but part of being a coach is finding a way to get the best out of each guy you have. Anything short of that is bad coaching. I don't think Lindsay and Blache are taking the right approach with LaVar and if you read between the lines Arrington isn't the only guy that has a problem with it.

Well, if nothing else Mufumonk, along with our both having the same #1 priority and my liking the name "mufumonk", we have found common ground in our agreement that the best coahes are not one-dimensional and do learn how to get the most from each player. There are players, as there are people, who just can not be brought to fully meet their perceived potential. For Lavar's sake, I hope the problem is in his coaches and not within himself.

[ThatGuy]

And that they brought those guys in had NO impact on it and man, was that Holdman held accountable for his mistakes and not getting off blocks, eh?!

Did Holdman not lose his job to Arrington?

EDIT: I'll also add that we don't know what happened with Holdman because he shuts his yap like everyone player besides Lavar. For all we know Lindsey could have been screaming at him the whole time too. But we'll never know, because he keeps his business to himself.

[JimmiJo]

Did Holdman not lose his job to Arrington?

He lost his package.

Did I say that with my out-loud voice?

[ImmortalDragon]

He lost his package.

Did I say that with my out-loud voice?

Thanks for being mature.

[visionary]

Damn it, can't they hold off with this stuff until after the Eagles game at least!

[JimmiJo]

Thanks for being mature.

Thanks for having a sense of humor.

You see there, I am kidding.

[Jumbo]

Damn it, can't they hold off with this stuff until after the Eagles game at least!

Are you kidding vis? You know the guys at the Post must've had a you-knw-what when they read the Tiems article and got the idea to run with this.

[bulldog]

LaVar has been here for 5 years and the Redskins have not had a winning season. This year with Gibbs back in Year 2 the team is primed for a real chance for the postseason and its first winning record since 1999.

thus it isn't Arrington but the team concept plus added talent that is willing to work within that system that is allowing this club to rise again to respectability.

Marcus Washington is a talented linebacker with good pass rush skills who could put up better sack totals if he freelanced more and played outside of the defense as called but he doesn't do that because he is a consummate pro.

And that is what this staff is looking for.............talented football players that are mature, smart and willing to be coached.

Arrington has gone through a MESS of defensive coordinators from Ray Rhodes to Marvin Lewis to Gregg Williams and they ALL came away with the impression that Arrington did not seem ready to put his ego in check to play within the given system, and that in the long run cost the team games.

These three coaches all have Super Bowl credentials while Arrington has never played in a postseason game.

Who are you going to side with in this?

One guy doesn't like a player you write it off as a bad fit.

When it is EVERY DC the club brings in over 3 staffs you know it is the player folks

[Ghost of]

You may be right, I don't know. I just think that my limited exerpience with football and organized sports in general usually ended up with someone calling me a walking pile of pig$hit. I didn't like it, but as long as it was uniformly applied (notice I did not say fairly) then I was good with it.

How many clips of Parcells chewing someone out have we seen? Or other coaches for that matter? My impression is that is the way it is in the sport.

here's my thing, though. Are we supposed to believe that Marty "I corrected Darrell Green's technique and cut Larry Centers for not 'falling in line'" Schottenheimer or Kurt S. didn't yell at Lavar? One of the first guys to embrace Marty and buy in was Lavar.

I'm certain even George Edwards probably yelled here and there.

So what's the deal now?

[SittingBull]

If Arrington was such a nuisance to Lindsey on the field why wasn't Lavar benched? If Lavar starts this Sunday against the Eagles that will speak volumes about the worth of this article.

[Taipei-tommy]

Food for thought!

What would you expect if you hung up the phone on your supervisor?

If you had done this, how would you respond to your supervisor for being irritated?

Even if Lavar was partially correct with his position coach, should he bypass normal channels and go to the press with his thoughts?

Was his agent aware of his interview with the WT prior to the actual interview?

What clauses are in the players contracts regarding planned interviews?

Lavar is a loose cannon just waiting for the press to get him fired up!

[TheGuru10]

You have no clue what you're talking about if you think Lindsey reserves special curses for LaVar. Lindsey is a salty guy who lays into ALL his guys reasonably equally. It's not all about LaVar as much as LaVar enthusiasts need to believe it. Lindsey coaches all his guys the same way. He calls down and tells them to get their **** together or else. He's done it with every guy he coaches this year in correcting their errors. LaVar is just the player who most is inclined to the, "Why is everybody always picking on me," school of thought that seems to pervade anyone who's on his side.

And this is not a guess on my part either.

While I respect you're inside information on this, I think it's short sited to blame this whole thing on Arrington. In one of your earlier posts you mentioned Greg Williams interview today and how he said one thing he has learned from Joe Gibbs is that if Gibbs has to be stern with a player he does it behind closed doors, so as to not embarass that player in front of his teammates. Williams said he has to learn to do more of that. Maybe Lindsey should also take a page out of Gibbs coaching handbook and learn how to deal with players. Maybe that would explain why Lindsey has been a coach for 25 years and only been a Defensive Coordinator for 1 season at the NFL level.

[JimmiJo]

here's my thing, though. Are we supposed to believe that Marty "I corrected Darrell Green's technique and cut Larry Centers for not 'falling in line'" Schottenheimer or Kurt S. didn't yell at Lavar? One of the first guys to embrace Marty and buy in was Lavar.

I'm certain even George Edwards probably yelled here and there.

So what's the deal now?

I'm sure I don't know and I had forgotten about the D. Green/Marty thing. I remember that I dismissed Marty's view out of hand.

I think in general I root for the team, and tend to favor coaches. I know that I don't know the deal here with LA. DOn't know him or the coaches.

But I do know that I resent the timing on this and really, without his direct engineering, Tuesday's story does not happen.

Writers are writers and they are going to do what they do. I am not asserting the LA does not have valid complaints. My point is that in picking this week for this, he could potentially harm the team, his mates by causing distraction.

And they have backed him all the way.

[bulldog]

but Lindsay has also coached some great linebackers in the NFL over that stretch of time

for those backing LaVar or who believe he has been singled out by this staff, please explain why three respected defensive coordinators since 2000 have had similar run-ins with #56?

is he a player like Terrell Owens that just does too much for any staff to swallow for long?

[Ghost of]

LaVar has been here for 5 years and the Redskins have not had a winning season.

thus it isn't Arrington but the team concept plus added talent that is willing to work within that system

Arrington has gone through a MESS of defensive coordinators from Ray Rhodes to Marvin Lewis to Gregg Williams

These three coaches all have Super Bowl credentials while Arrington has never played in a postseason game.

When it is EVERY DC the club brings in over 3 staffs you know it is the player folks

In 2000, the team went 8-8 after suffering major injuries along the line and at wideout. Brad's arm went dead and he started playing scared. Lavar had nothing to do with not winning that year. He was playing well until the injury in 2004 and had little to do with the outcome of that year. And since it was under Gibbs, should we even be counting the last two years, if this is the point you want to make? Shouldn't we only be counting the pre-Gibbs era? Or do we count Gibbs 6-10 season?

Among those coordinators you didn't mention Kurt Schottenheimer. You also pointed to Ray Rhodes as someone who came away with a certain impression of Lavar Arrington. Is this true? Where can I find this information. Marvin Lewis, we're well acquainted with and we draw reasonable conclusions from the available evidence about what Gregg might think. But Ray? Did I miss that? And Kurt S?

Thus, unless you have evidence Kurt and Ray felt that way, it's NOT every coordinator. You also didn't count Gerge Edwards, though I guess we can take the word of Trotter, though that is like the thief condeming the burglar.

[chet06]

No, Skinstzar a player didn't say Lindsey went to far. He said leave LaVar be. That can mean a number of things. Like, "Man, LaVar can't take that kind of coaching like we can." Or any number of other things. You've chosen to read it as ONE meaning only when many are attached.

The team has ALWAYS been pretty openly supportive of LaVar save the week or so period when it had to rip him apart to shut him up earlier this year. The point is the Wise premise that the Redskins should treat Arrington like a star and baby him is ridiculous drivel. And, if LaVar is refusing to take coaching for his mistakes, don't be surprised if he is benched or deactivated.

Dont you get it or do you get it and just ignore the reality of the situation. Lavar will be benched because of the Times article. But to suggest that it has anything to do with him missing some of his assignments is just ridiculous. We need him on the field.

[JimmiJo]

Dont you get it or do you get it and just ignore the reality of the situation. Lavar will be benched because of the Times article.

What makes you say this?

[TheGuru10]

but Lindsay has also coached some great linebackers in the NFL over that stretch of time

for those backing LaVar or who believe he has been singled out by this staff, please explain why three respected defensive coordinators since 2000 have had similar run-ins with #56?

is he a player like Terrell Owens that just does too much for any staff to swallow for long?

Yeah, but they were great LB's before he coached them and after he coached them as well. I'm sure if you asked Urlacher or Seau if Lindsey is the reason they are great they would laugh. I have a few friends who are Bears fans and they couldn't stand either Lindsey or Blache.

One other thing to note about Lindsey. Have you ever read more quotes in the paper throughout the season from a LB's coach. For that matter, without looking it up, can you name the LB's coach from the Cowboys, Eagles or Giants? Doubt it, but if you follow the NFC east, you know Dale Lindsey. Who really wants the spotlight?