Wise - After a Shove, a Fall From Grace (Lavar Shouting Match w/Coach after Sat game)

[evucci]

Who's saying they were berating him for motivation and not just because he earned a little hollering for his mistakes? Again, I trust Blache, Lindsey and Williams a whole lot more than LaVar. Tell me you don't? I also trust Lewis more than LaVar and I hate Lewis . I also trust every guy no longer on this team who's made a public statement on LaVar about his lack of discipline. Like Trotter this week as a recent example.

At some point you people in support of LaVar actually have to ALLOW someone to make him accountable like everyone else. Please.

Art- I think the truth of this matter lies somewhere in the middle. It's going to be a controversial subject because people either LOVE Lavar or hate him. I understand both arguments and see exactly where your coming from. But in all the time I've spent around the team, I've experienced nothing but good from the guy. I truly feel that if he had the opportunity to wake up tomorrow and put all this behind him- he would trade almost anything for that.

What we need to remeber as fans (and something we usually forget) is that any work place has issues. Just because a guy had an argument with a coach doesn't mean we all have to choose sides. These issues aren't black and white. The truth is in the gray area, and I see where your coming from just like I'm sure that you see where I'm coming from.

I just like the guy- that's my 2 cents- now LETS GET A WIN!!!!! HTTR

[JimmiJo]

I went through the same thing in college. My coach was an unbelievable tyrant. Some people responded positively to his abuse. Others, like myself, regressed and played poorly because you spend so much time thinking about doing the right thing. Anyone that has played at a high level of competition will tell you flat out that doesn't work in any real game time situation. When this particuliar coach got off my ass and actually "coached" to the situation I excelled and became the player and leader they wanted me to be. Different strokes for different folks. Sadly, this defensive staff doesn't see it that way and would rather run our greatest talent on defense out of town rather than find a common ground.

That is an interesting observation. I have found that those who respond well to harsh criticism tend to be better performers in the overall. I believe this to be true in sports, business, arts, et al.

I think it is because if you can perfom in the midst of it, then you can keep you head and not succumb to outside pressures in tough situation. I think this is why people are constantly yelled at in basic training.

[Mufumonk]

Mufu...the sports history books are full of hard-nosed ass-chewing coaches who are far more prolifically represented among the all-time winners than the vermiel types...just making a point...personally I like a balance of qualities, like I think Gibbs has..but being a hard-azz is hardly credible to use as an indictment of a football coach...

I understand that but part of being a coach is finding a way to get the best out of each guy you have. Anything short of that is bad coaching. I don't think Lindsay and Blache are taking the right approach with LaVar and if you read between the lines Arrington isn't the only guy that has a problem with it.

[Aluadan]

LaVar HUNG UP ON HIS COACH TRYING TO CORRECT HIS ERRORS. How can this NOT ring through to you that we should be peeved with LaVar.

Ah come on now, you're acting like the coach was doing that, correcting him on his errors but when more than one fellow player says the coach was going quite a bit overboard towards Lavar (and i'm willing to bet he only acts this way towards Lavar) it's just not right. I'll say it again, Lindsey had it out for Lavar before they even met and he's stuck to his guns the whole time. It's tough to please someone who hates you before you even have met them yourself is it not?

Funny how everyone wants to throw Lavar under the bus and tell him he needs to be more professional but let's use a double standard and ignore anything Lindsey has done. Sorry, but it just doesn't work that way, people should expect Lindsey to treat all his players the same and I'd think it's fair to say he doesn't do the same thing to say Washington on a missed assignment.

[JimmiJo]

You missed the earlier part of this year with Holdman in there?

Was it Holdman, or maybe Griffin being out?

[BD]

LaVar HUNG UP ON HIS COACH TRYING TO CORRECT HIS ERRORS. How can this NOT ring through to you that we should be peeved with LaVar.

Thanks, Art - look at that simple fact, 56 lovers, and tell me that this is "Snyder's fault" or something along those lines.

The simple fact is that LaVar has been a very unsteady player for this coaching regime, and Gregg Williams and Dale Lindsey have no reason to trust that he will do what they tell him to do when the game is on the line.

BD

[Mufumonk]

Was it Holdman, or maybe Griffin being out?

Denver and K.C. games ring a bell?

[Art]

evucci,

I like LaVar too. I always have. I just like him less when he interrupts my celebration of victory and does this kind of stuff that seems so weird. I just would like LaVar to realize it's OK for him to be smaller than life and a better player. If he did that, the sky is the limit for him.

[bulldog]

football is a team game. individual players that don't fit into the team concept don't contribute to winning in the long run, they either implode or cause dissension on their clubs.

Arrington could have been a player that worked as hard off the field and at practice to become as good as his physical talent indicated.

Instead of being that consistent dominating player a la Junior Seau or Ray Lewis, Arrington has been content to do the minimum necessary while affecting an attitude that he belongs on the field irregardless of whether he follows the game plan or not.

You know what Arrington is? Terrell Owens without the moxy.

At least with Owens, once he makes a comment he admits to it later, rather than claiming he was misquoted.

In the end Arrington's grievances here in Washington to me look a lot like Owens' in Philly.

He gets 90% of what he wants but isn't satisfied because SOMEBODY somewhere else is making $1 more in bonus or has a better incentive package, etc......................

The grass is always greener for these guys. The record of the team, whether the team wins, and the plight of teammates are far behind in their list of priorities.

[JimmiJo]

When I'm at work and I missed getting a signature on some document, my manager usually tells me to get it next time or ask the person to come back in and provide it.

She doesn't spend harangue me while I'm in the middle of wrapping up a deal.

Yes, but if missing that signature meant your boss might be out of work, she might. When a team doesn't win, coaches tend to become unemployed - sounds like pretty high stakes to me.

Behavior like that does hapen in the work force when the stakes are high.

[JimmiJo]

Denver and K.C. games ring a bell?

You do have a point there mister, he wasn't hurt until before Giant 1 I believe.

[mooby]

Is there any possible way for both sides to work together to resolve this issue so Lavar remains a redskin for his career?

[Art]

Ah come on now, you're acting like the coach was doing that, correcting him on his errors but when more than one fellow player says the coach was going quite a bit overboard towards Lavar (and i'm willing to bet he only acts this way towards Lavar) it's just not right. I'll say it again, Lindsey had it out for Lavar before they even met and he's stuck to his guns the whole time. It's tough to please someone who hates you before you even have met them yourself is it not?

Funny how everyone wants to throw Lavar under the bus and tell him he needs to be more professional but let's use a double standard and ignore anything Lindsey has done. Sorry, but it just doesn't work that way, people should expect Lindsey to treat all his players the same and I'd think it's fair to say he doesn't do the same thing to say Washington on a missed assignment.

You have no clue what you're talking about if you think Lindsey reserves special curses for LaVar. Lindsey is a salty guy who lays into ALL his guys reasonably equally. It's not all about LaVar as much as LaVar enthusiasts need to believe it. Lindsey coaches all his guys the same way. He calls down and tells them to get their **** together or else. He's done it with every guy he coaches this year in correcting their errors. LaVar is just the player who most is inclined to the, "Why is everybody always picking on me," school of thought that seems to pervade anyone who's on his side.

And this is not a guess on my part either.

[Ghost of]

Yes, but if missing that signature meant your boss might be out of work, she might. When a team doesn't win, coaches tend to become unemployed - sounds like pretty high stakes to me.

Behavior like that does hapen in the work force when the stakes are high.

yes and Lavar has been terrible on 1st and second downs and we've been through that losing streak the last 4 games.

And let me say also how great we were on runs and plays to that side of the field before he was re-inserted into the lineup.

The point being that it's high stakes the entire season and we've been fine of late. It would be hilarious if he stopped Finn from burning us on a "blown assignment."

[Mufumonk]

That is an interesting observation. I have found that those who respond well to harsh criticism tend to be better performers in the overall. I believe this to be true in sports, business, arts, et al.

I think it is because if you can perfom in the midst of it, then you can keep you head and not succumb to outside pressures in tough situation. I think this is why people are constantly yelled at in basic training.

I disagree. I'm the best at what I do in any endeavor I jump into and it has nothing to do with being treated like garbage by my superiors. There's a difference between being harsh and being a total dick.

[JimmiJo]

You have no clue what you're talking about if you think Lindsey reserves special curses for LaVar. Lindsey is a salty guy who lays into ALL his guys reasonably equally. It's not all about LaVar as much as LaVar enthusiasts need to believe it. Lindsey coaches all his guys the same way. He calls down and tells them to get their **** together or else. He's done it with every guy he coaches this year in correcting their errors. LaVar is just the player who most is inclined to the, "Why is everybody always picking on me," school of thought that seems to pervade anyone who's on his side.

And this is not a guess on my part either.

First of all, anyone who uses the word "Pervade" on a message board is a hero of mine.

Secondly, you are of course correct.

[DieselKev44]

I have found that those who respond well to harsh criticism tend to be better performers in the overall. I believe this to be true in sports, business, arts, et al.

There is plenty of evidence that suggests that this is not true (that harsh criticism always yields the best results). I believe that a great leader understands his people enough to know how to motivate a given individual.

Some respond to the carrot, some to the stick.

I love Lavar myself, but agree that he's doomed in Washington. What a shame.

[s0crates]

Why do we have to do all this now? I wasn't worried about Philly until all this drama sprang up.

[JimmiJo]

yes and Lavar has been terrible on 1st and second downs and we've been through that losing streak the last 4 games.

And let me say also how great we were on runs and plays to that side of the field before he was re-inserted into the lineup.

You changed gears on me - O thought we were talking about motivation and how people react.

[evucci]

evucci,

I like LaVar too. I always have. I just like him less when he interrupts my celebration of victory and does this kind of stuff that seems so weird. I just would like LaVar to realize it's OK for him to be smaller than life and a better player. If he did that, the sky is the limit for him.

Agreed- but you got to give the guy time to learn what winning is about and how it's accomplished. And for that matter how to act. The guy has been in unstable situations his entire NFL career. So when these guys are trying to show him the way- it's going to be tough to figure out to play within a system when he's job has been to just cause havoc on other teams. Maybe both sides need to find common ground and work from there. I bet the coaches would like to start over too.

[TheGuru10]

I prefer 9-6 and treating LaVar like garbage to 5-11 treating him like the man. Who's with me?

And the middle ground on this is treating LaVar like "a man" from the beginning, not letting this become the problem it has become. Who knows, if the situation were handled better, we may not be so worried about the Eagles this week. We already might be in the playoffs.

[JimmiJo]

I disagree. I'm the best at what I do in any endeavor I jump into and it has nothing to do with being treated like garbage by my superiors. There's a difference between being harsh and being a total dick.

I have no doubt that you are the best at what you do. I am simply pointing out what I have observed.

But you seem to be asserting that Lindsey was being a total dick now, and I am not sure on what you base this.

[Aluadan]

You have no clue what you're talking about if you think Lindsey reserves special curses for LaVar. Lindsey is a salty guy who lays into ALL his guys reasonably equally. It's not all about LaVar as much as LaVar enthusiasts need to believe it. Lindsey coaches all his guys the same way. He calls down and tells them to get their **** together or else. He's done it with every guy he coaches this year in correcting their errors. LaVar is just the player who most is inclined to the, "Why is everybody always picking on me," school of thought that seems to pervade anyone who's on his side.

And this is not a guess on my part either.

Here's a little somethin for you from the article incase you missed it...

According to two persons privy to the altercation, the coach went a tad more overboard than the player.

I guess those 2 persons, most likely fellow players, have no clue either. Of course Lindsey has 'special curses' for Lavar, again, he has had it out for him since day 1 and he's doing his best to force him outta town and it certainly looks like he's doing a pretty good job at it. I guess that's what being a professional is all about.

[mooby]

You know what Arrington is? Terrell Owens without the moxy.

At least with Owens, once he makes a comment he admits to it later, rather than claiming he was misquoted.

In the end Arrington's grievances here in Washington to me look a lot like Owens' in Philly.

He gets 90% of what he wants but isn't satisfied because SOMEBODY somewhere else is making $1 more in bonus or has a better incentive package, etc......................

when did this become about lavar wanting more money? Do you not believe lavar when he says he wants to be a redskin for life, and he would consider retiring if he had to play anywhere else.

Let's get this straight. I am a lavar fan, but there are certain points i agree on.

1. He needs to keep his mouth shut

2. He can be much better than he is at the moment.

3. He really didn't need to make those comments this particular week. It should've waited until the offseason, whenever that starts for us.

But the guy can make a tremendous impact. Like Gregg Williams once said, this is a better defense when lavar is on the field. And i know that a lot of fans don't like lavar because of his contract. Do you honestly feel like we will be better without lavar?

[bulldog]

for all the frustration Arrington shows for being taken down by the coaches, I am sure Lindsay and the other defensive coaches are frustrated for having to show a 6th year player in the NFL repeatedly how to run basic plays and get into position when they have younger guys like Sean Taylor and Carlos Rogers that seem to be making better progress in becoming all-around consistent defenders