Looks like we're getting to them boys :) -- ES article to come in local paper.

[Art]

An article will likely appear in the coming days in the City Paper regarding Extremeskins.com and the acquisition of our site by the Redskins. I do not know exactly what to expect from the article but I suspect it will come off in a pretty amusing fashion given some of the questions asked.

The reporter on the story appears to believe we received $1 million for the site, which, is patently false given we received roughly $1 million less . The article exists because some journalists got a little miffed that we are allowed in their domain.

Whether we belong and whether we, as fans, can provide objective reporting may be a feature of the article absent the awareness that no one is trying to be objective since we're trying to be fans . Just a heads up for you guys in case you see it. I'm guessing it will come out in a typical inaccurate fashion -- given the writer mistook Dan Snyder for Rick Snider -- in our conversation and may not be aware that a member of our board doesn't mean a member is one of our board of directors -- of which I didn't even know we had .

The writer believed false statements given him by other journalists about statements others here -- regular members -- have made about journalists in the past and didn't bother to use the search feature to confirm or reject. Maybe he will prove careful and cautious and even. Maybe he won't. I look forward to seeing it .

[zoony]

And off come the gloves...

.....

[dawgjk9]

we wil take over the world soon!!!! no we really wont...but i just wanted to post something

[TheDiplomat]

we wil take over the world soon!!!! no we really wont...but i just wanted to post something

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

(Me too)

HTTR

[Henry]

Looking forward to reading it.

Having been privy to much of the behind-the-scenes work done between the Redskins and ES, and then reading conjecture from freind and foe as to our motivations/compensation/integrity regarding the deal, it is clear to me that we all really have NO clue what goes on behind the scenes with the Redskins. When they trade or cut a player, sign a coach, deal with another team ... we really don't know nuthin. Maybe some of us guess right, or are a little more shrewd than the rest, but on the whole noone knows what goes on but the parties involved.

I am very interested in seeing just how crazy off this writer is about us. I wonder if thats how Gibbs and Snyder feel every day.

[E-Dog Night]

If it's like 90% of the articles in the CityPaper, it will start off well, then proceed to go nowhere and say nothing, with 7 pages of fluff and filler. Although that's only true of the cover story, which I'm guessing it won't be.

[iheartskins]

I don't know if you recorded it, but if you did it would be great to compare your responses to the interview to what was actually reported in the article and then do a paragraph by paragraph (or line by line as the case may be) comparison. That'd be an excellent annex to the article and probably be good for some laughs (or some respect if the journalist spent some time doing research).

[zoony]

The writer believed false statements given him by other journalists about statements others here -- regular members -- have made about journalists in the past

Care to elaborate here?

.......

[Art]

And off come the gloves...

.....

It was only a matter of time .

My guess is it'll go roughly like this.

Against Dallas, fans violated central rules of journalism by cheering wildly after Santana Moss scored a touchdown. This set off a controversy as to whether these fans belong, and how low it is for the team to plant PR employees in the Press Box.

The team has long used team employees working for Extremeskins.com to bash professional members of the media. Such members post anonymously, without verification as to their identity and their criticism can be traced to employment with the Redskins, leading one to conclude they are being directed in their efforts.

Additionally, members of this site are paid by the organization, begging the question as to their ability to be objective about the organization. It's very sad.

But, maybe he'll surprise me.

[Art]

I don't know if you recorded it, but if you did it would be great to compare your responses to the interview to what was actually reported in the article and then do a paragraph by paragraph (or line by line as the case may be) comparison. That'd be an excellent annex to the article and probably be good for some laughs (or some respect if the journalist spent some time doing research).

The quotes were verified and are generally correct. He wanted to know how I could post anonymously and I said I post as Art. Because that's my name and everyone knows I'm Art, everywhere I post. If Art's taken, I take a variant of Art and say, "Hi, I'm Art." Then how did it come about that the Redskins have me attacking journalists, to which I said, I've been bashing bad journalism for years, before the team knew my name, and I will continue on for may more years.

As to whether I belong in the box, my response was the audience I am trying to target is of highly motivated fans and we're trying to provide an eyes-wide-open, aw-shucks view of how things are through the eyes of fans. We belong for our audience is real and large .

I think he'll hit the quotes adequately.

[Dr Pepper]

An article will likely appear in the coming days in the City Paper regarding Extremeskins.com and the acquisition of our site by the Redskins. I do not know exactly what to expect from the article but I suspect it will come off in a pretty amusing fashion given some of the questions asked.

The reporter on the story appears to believe we received $1 million for the site, which, is patently false given we received roughly $1 million less . The article exists because some journalists got a little miffed that we are allowed in their domain.

Whether we belong and whether we, as fans, can provide objective reporting may be a feature of the article absent the awareness that no one is trying to be objective since we're trying to be fans . Just a heads up for you guys in case you see it. I'm guessing it will come out in a typical inaccurate fashion -- given the writer mistook Dan Snyder for Rick Snider -- in our conversation and may not be aware that a member of our board doesn't mean a member is one of our board of directors -- of which I didn't even know we had .

The writer believed false statements given him by other journalists about statements others here -- regular members -- have made about journalists in the past and didn't bother to use the search feature to confirm or reject. Maybe he will prove careful and cautious and even. Maybe he won't. I look forward to seeing it .

Art do you guys pay for your plane tickets and hotels out of your own pocket or does the team spring for it? If the team does then in a sense they are paying you!

[Art]

Care to elaborate here?

.......

Apparently he believes fellow journalists who say Rick Snider's has been made fun of exclusively about his heart attack on this board, recently even, by membership. I pointed out a search for "Snider heart attack" reveals very mild commentary involving the event and the creation by his buddies should be verified and not presumed given we do have a search engine. Of course, I wouldn't be surprised if someone had really taunted him for a heart attack, as some here are kind of outrageous at times .

[zoony]

But, maybe he'll surprise me.

Don't count on it.

But to me, this should serve as a wakeup call to the local media. Here we have 40,000 Redskin fans who put more trust in the 'anonymous posters' of ES to provide them with Redskin news & content over the WP.

Not sure if ironic is the word I'm looking for, but funny nonetheless.

[Art]

Art do you guys pay for your plane tickets and hotels out of your own pocket or does the team spring for it? If the team does then in a sense they are paying you!

I'm not sure I said otherwise. I simply said we didn't get $1 million dollars .

But, bringing us to games and allowing us in has not been tied to control of statements. Mark and I have both been astounded by how open they've been to what we've written. Trust me, the Lavar piece was not one they'd have wanted to see given Lavar is a little sensitive and reading it causes internal issues that the team site has commentary that may not be deemed exceptionally positive toward Lavar.

We're pretty lucky so far that they are willing to allow the opinion to be stated without steering.

[skins1972]

They will have many unamed sources regarding ES and the members!!

[Ghost of]

Art

Though I know your job to provide a richer fan experience, I have to say I don't mind that this is an 'alternative news source(I'm including redskins.com now.)' The thing about sports writers is at least they cover the sport and may end up with a good feel or understanding of the game. Journalism, as a whole, is filled with unqualified people attempting to make sense of their lack of understanding by attacking or asking provocative, but not necessarily informative, questions.

This entire "journalism as sacred oath" thing confuses me. IT was almost never viewed as such until somewhat recently. You report news. Do it as objectively as you can unless you are an editorialist, in which case, spin away. But how you've encroached on their territory, other than mere presence and that you DO offer an alternative viewpoint to the 'objective yet wholly partial' Jenkins or Nunyo, I don't get.

But that is probably it, then. The media is incapable(from any angle) of being truly circumspect and impartial recorders of events, especially in sports. Thus, you are as much a journalist as they are

Just look at how open they've been to your articles, when editors at papers on various news and political issues likely give their journalists much leeway on select topics.

The internet and other alternative sources of information signalled the coming end of the major media's grasp on information. What you're seeing is typical resistance from the entrenched elite.

[Blondie]

we wil take over the world soon!!!! no we really wont...but i just wanted to post something

And I will be QUEEN!!!!!!!

:applause: :laugh:

Blondie

[DjTj]

Alright, I have to confess, I'm the "member of the Extremeskins board of directors who wishes to remain unnamed" that leaked the news about Art's drug addiction.

[Art]

Art

Though I know your job to provide a richer fan experience, I have to say I don't mind that this is an 'alternative news source(I'm including redskins.com now.)' The thing about sports writers is at least they cover the sport and may end up with a good feel or understanding of the game. Journalism, as a whole, is filled with unqualified people attempting to make sense of their lack of understanding by attacking or asking provocative, but not necessarily informative, questions.

This entire "journalism as sacred oath" thing confuses me. IT was almost never viewed as such until somewhat recently. You report news. Do it as objectively as you can unless you are an editorialist, in which case, spin away. But how you've encroached on their territory, other than mere presence and that you DO offer an alternative viewpoint to the 'objective yet wholly partial' Jenkins or Nunyo, I don't get.

But that is probably it, then. The media is incapable(from any angle) of being truly circumspect and impartial recorders of events, especially in sports. Thus, you are as much a journalist as they are

Ding.

My audience simply differs from their audience. Mine is somewhat easier to write to in some ways, given we like the team and follow it, while being harder to some extent because when you design a column to focus on the key area of discussion among fans, and you take a position, you end up alienating some portion of your audience by default.

The other difference is we do it because we love the topic .

[Dr Pepper]

I'm not sure I said otherwise. I simply said we didn't get $1 million dollars .

Are you sure about the million dollars, anyone check Blades wallet lately? :-)

=Art But, bringing us to games and allowing us in has not been tied to control of statements. Mark and I have both been astounded by how open they've been to what we've written. Trust me, the Lavar piece was not one they'd have wanted to see given Lavar is a little sensitive and reading it causes internal issues that the team site has commentary that may not be deemed exceptionally positive toward Lavar.

I hope they continue to give you free reign, by the way great job on everything you have been doing here, and that goes to all the staff to! I can't thank you guys enough!

[ChocolateCitySkin]

Don't count on it.

But to me, this should serve as a wakeup call to the local media. Here we have 40,000 Redskin fans who put more trust in the 'anonymous posters' of ES to provide them with Redskin news & content over the WP.

Not sure if ironic is the word I'm looking for, but funny nonetheless.

I wouldn't be surprised if this was not the crux of the CityPapers argument. Although, I don't really know what questions they asked. The general sentiment among their writers is very "anti-man."

[iheartskins]

The other difference is we do it because we love the topic .

And I don't think you can understate how important this is, with one major caveat that I'll get to in a second. When the people covering the events have a vested, and personal, interest in the focus of their reporting, it makes for far more interesting reading as well as provides a vivacious energy that's largely absent from some of the typical new articles that (currently) predominate. Further, when it's someone who has written for a living, as I believe that you and Om have both done, it's something very different than some schmo off the street, or even one who just finished J-school somewhere, writes about the 'Skins.

The only caveat, and perhaps the basis of some of the invective behind Sally Jenkins--and that's obviously pure speculation, is that because of the intensity of the interest, the partiality that's initially a welcome part of your (Art's) perspective can cloud, or in some cases overtake, the other elements of your reporting leaving a product that's worse that than the dull articles mentioned above. And this is what we see from folks like Ms. Jenkins (maybe). Personal vendetta coming way before journalistic integrity.

Separetely, Art, do you really believe this interest to spout from a sense of pending competition?

[TheLongshot]

I'm not sure I said otherwise. I simply said we didn't get $1 million dollars .

Maybe this guy got the $1 million dollars.

Looking forward to the article.

Jason

[Art]

If the Redskins win, within three years, we will be read by more than any sports writer in the Washington Post. That doesn't mean they fear the competition given we're not, technically, competing. We're not trying to be an army of little journalists. We're trying to be fans and provide things that interest us to those like us in case it interests them. We're still getting a feel for coverage and hope to expand what we do at the games. Right now we're learning the ropes.

In the end, what I believe spawned this interest is simple. Journalism is the lowest paid profession coming out of school. Mass Communications has largely replaced basket weaving as the major of choice for the student looking for the easiest ride. Media members start out in small towns covering little Sally's brown belt test. They quickly become jaded and cynical.

Over time they get to a paper that allows them to enter the majors in terms of coverage -- a professional beat like a sports beat. The perks are the food, access and comfort they enjoy when watching games. And now they are seeing that handed out to people like me -- though this has long happened.

Worse, I heard several times on Sunday journalists say, "If you have access to the field, you should go down, because it's very loud." They see me bopping in and out of the box on the sideline and up and they are angered I have already surpassed them in terms of access and type of writing simply by LIKING something so much, someone cared enough to try something new.

[zoony]

The only caveat, and perhaps the basis of some of the invective behind Sally Jenkins--and that's obviously pure speculation, is that because of the intensity of the interest, the partiality that's initially a welcome part of your (Art's) perspective can cloud, or in some cases overtake, the other elements of your reporting leaving a product that's worse that than the dull articles mentioned above. And this is what we see from folks like Ms. Jenkins (maybe). Personal vendetta coming way before journalistic integrity.

where does Sally Jenkins come into it? I thought Art referred to the writer as 'he' in his initial post. Or maybe I'm misunderstanding you...

And also, are you trying to say Art's a homer? Bite your tongue!!!

.......