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[Art]

I beg to differ--He's clearly been replaced by either or both; hence, the numerous Lavar threads on the subject. Also, I don't agree on another point: just because we're in close games doesn't mean we can't utilize prevent packages. We have had teams in several third and longs, I think there was a 3rd and 21 against KC on Sunday where we had dropped back into a prevent zone.

To be replaced one must actually have been in and then removed. Lavar has never been in -- other than to replace Clemons when he was hurt and limited. The fact that we haven't used prevent packages is clear. You can play coverage without being in the prevent.

[Guest Gichin13]

Ghost,

"A sea of little Goebbels?"

Yeah, clearly what's less enjoyable about the board these days is people expressing the opinion that the coaches give every indication of knowing what they're doing---or at least more than the legion of internet masterminds out here.

To me, what sometimes makes the site "less enjoyable" these days is not only the moron factor, but also the factor of veteran posters who cannot or will not see the hypocrisy of constantly criticizing people who assess a given situation, and end up siding with the professional's position, for THEIR hubris.

Here I thought you would reference the message board rule of when the Nazis come into the argument. Instead, you worked the vocabulary angle with hubris, very nice Om.

[RDSKNfaithfull]

To be replaced one must actually have been in and then removed. Lavar has never been in -- other than to replace Clemons when he was hurt and limited. The fact that we haven't used prevent packages is clear. You can play coverage without being in the prevent.

Art you know deep down inside this has nothing to do with packages :doh: That was as you like to say a fibb. Can you name one game where we went to a prevent defesne in the last year and a half (please don't avoid that question and smooth talk)

[skins4eva]

To be replaced one must actually have been in and then removed. Lavar has never been in -- other than to replace Clemons when he was hurt and limited. The fact that we haven't used prevent packages is clear. You can play coverage without being in the prevent.

Well, I hope this issue gets settled on Sunday. If we are blowing out the 49ers, and we some of the "prevent packages" that you think Lavar is involved in--then we can see who has the more compelling argument.

[Art]

Art you know deep down inside this has nothing to do with packages :doh: That was as you like to say a fibb.

You people are just amusing as heck.

It's like you think the term came to exist when Lavar wasn't being given time. This is all about packages. Lavar's probably got one or two he's assigned to. Those are umbrella shells where he can dash around the corner like a wild man that are used when teams are ahead and protecting a lead. Everything we do is package-based. Every play we play is package-based. Every bit of information you must understand begins with this.

It's unacceptable to think you don't know even this basic thing about your team.

[Art]

Well, I hope this issue gets settled on Sunday. If we are blowing out the 49ers, and we some of the "prevent packages" that you think Lavar is involved in--then we can see who has the more compelling argument.

Or he might get in the game in other packages. Or, he might be taken out of his existing packages altogether for not doing what he's asked in practice. Or, he might start at weakside backer if he's done enough to get there. All irrrelevant. Relevant, remains, how our defense is run and the fact that Lavar has defenses he is assigned to that have not been called due to game circumstance. Kind of like our buddy Ray Brown who only makes appearances when his offensive personnel grouping is called based on game circumstances.

[bulldog]

would some of you be as anxious to play #56 if you knew ahead of time that the Redskins without him would finish 11-5 and win the NFC East?

the reason I ask is to determine whether you are first fans of the TEAM and how it competes and finishes or whether you are fans of specific players first and of the team SECOND..............

we had some posters so disgusted with the benching of Patrick Ramsey that they said they weren't going to watch the team anymore and thought Gibbs should retire.

are we approaching that with Gregg Williams because of Arrington's ability to play the wounded duck in front of the media?

[skins4eva]

You people are just amusing as heck.

It's like you think the term came to exist when Lavar wasn't being given time. This is all about packages. Lavar's probably got one or two he's assigned to. Those are umbrella shells where he can dash around the corner like a wild man that are used when teams are ahead and protecting a lead. Everything we do is package-based. Every play we play is package-based. Every bit of information you must understand begins with this.

It's unacceptable to think you don't know even this basic thing about your team.

Funny, I find your arguments to be just as amusing. Like I said, you speak with the authority of an actual Redskins coach, am I perhaps talking with Greg Williams himself? The one, the only, the sometimes villified-yet-caustically-brilliant Coach W--who has designed what I like to term "ghost" packages for Lavar?

[RDSKNfaithfull]

You people are just amusing as heck.

It's like you think the term came to exist when Lavar wasn't being given time. This is all about packages. Lavar's probably got one or two he's assigned to. Those are umbrella shells where he can dash around the corner like a wild man that are used when teams are ahead and protecting a lead. Everything we do is package-based. Every play we play is package-based. Every bit of information you must understand begins with this.

It's unacceptable to think you don't know even this basic thing about your team.

:laugh: Can you name one game where we went to a prevent defesne in the last year and a half (try to stick to this one question)

[bobzmuda]

You people are just amusing as heck.

It's like you think the term came to exist when Lavar wasn't being given time. This is all about packages. Lavar's probably got one or two he's assigned to. Those are umbrella shells where he can dash around the corner like a wild man that are used when teams are ahead and protecting a lead. Everything we do is package-based. Every play we play is package-based. Every bit of information you must understand begins with this.

It's unacceptable to think you don't know even this basic thing about your team.

I know LaVar was in as one of the OLB's in a 3-4 long yardage package. He got a couple of snaps in that package during the Seahawks game. This was right after LaVar said on the radio he was in on one package. Of couse, things might have changed, but that was LaVar's status at the time.

[skins4eva]

would some of you be as anxious to play #56 if you knew ahead of time that the Redskins without him would finish 11-5 and win the NFC East?

the reason I ask is to determine whether you are first fans of the TEAM and how it competes and finishes or whether you are fans of specific players first and of the team SECOND..............

we had some posters so disgusted with the benching of Patrick Ramsey that they said they weren't going to watch the team anymore and thought Gibbs should retire.

are we approaching that with Gregg Williams because of Arrington's ability to play the wounded duck in front of the media?

At least for me, that's not the case at all, never will be. I'm merely contending that the whole "packages" talk is a euphamistic cover

[skins4eva]

Or he might get in the game in other packages. Or, he might be taken out of his existing packages altogether for not doing what he's asked in practice. Or, he might start at weakside backer if he's done enough to get there. All irrrelevant. Relevant, remains, how our defense is run and the fact that Lavar has defenses he is assigned to that have not been called due to game circumstance. Kind of like our buddy Ray Brown who only makes appearances when his offensive personnel grouping is called based on game circumstances.

You have a dizzying intellect. I don't know that I have the energy to engage in anymore circuitous arguments with you, my friend.

[Art]

:laugh: Can you name one game where we went to a prevent defesne in the last year and a half (try to stick to this one question)

Perhaps the Giants or the Niners games last year would have been the last time. Until we start hammering folks, it's not a normal defense we'll see.

[bobzmuda]

At least for me, that's not the case at all, never will be. I'm merely contending that the whole "packages" talk is a euphamistic cover

Well if that's your contention feel fee to prove it by watching the past 2 games to see if LaVar was NOT in on the 3-4 long-yardage package he was in for the Seattle game. Let us know. Until then NO MO DRAMA.

[Art]

You have a dizzying intellect. I don't know that I have the energy to engage in anymore circuitous arguments with you, my friend.

It is only circuitous in that we continue to ask that you acknowledge "packages" isn't a fictional creation, but, do exist. It would be less dizzying to simply say, "Yeah, I know they exist and what they are." Instead, you deny they exist at all. It's strange.

[RDSKNfaithfull]

It is only circuitous in that we continue to ask that you acknowledge "packages" isn't a fictional creation, but, do exist. It would be less dizzying to simply say, "Yeah, I know they exist and what they are." Instead, you deny they exist at all. It's strange.

It seems that you deny that one little bit of this is personall.

[iheartskins]

Just wanted to chime in to say that this thread is a very interesting read...and that skins4eva was right about the evidence question.

Carry on.

[Samuels]

Give it a rest you guys opinion give no facts at all your what i'd call HATERS. Or FO wannabies ballwashers all the same and don't take it personally.All you can give is your opinion or your belief that the coaches have'nt been lieing or your belief that another player is better but the stats don't support that theory.

I'm a Lavar fan he is by far my favorite player no doubt. But i'm a diehard Skin fan 1st I was before LA and will be after LA has been long gone.

I'm not even crying for LA to play everydown but he should be playing period. I don't care if its a H-back he can help this team period. Thier is no reason other then personal that he is'nt lined up at De on 3rd downs or even going to 3 lineman with 4Lbers on 3rd and long to move LA around to blitz same difference. That I have a problem with thier is no way that thier is'nt more then 1-2 plays that LA could play in and help. If you don't believe that then your biased on the payroll or both.

[Art]

It seems that you deny that one little bit of this is personall.

No. In fact, I've stated I believe Lavar has made this personal due to his fib last week that he got caught on and has altered his public statements accordingly in the few days since. It wouldn't surprise me in the SLIGHTEST if Lavar was almost ready to get more playing time before last week -- that the improvement was showing and he was building the trust -- and his comments broke the trust and the coaches decided to sit him another week.

But, the whole situation stems from Lavar's weaknesses he NEVER seems willing to accept actually do exist and which he somehow has gotten those who follow him to uniformly disallow the fact that they exist either. We even have you guys claiming there is no such thing as packages. It's just sad.

[Tulane Skins Fan]

It is only circuitous in that we continue to ask that you acknowledge "packages" isn't a fictional creation, but, do exist. It would be less dizzying to simply say, "Yeah, I know they exist and what they are." Instead, you deny they exist at all. It's strange.

Just to join in here.... I admit that there are packages Art. However, if every three linebacker package contains Washington, Marshall, and Holdman and every two linebacker package contains a combination of those three, and any four linebacker package contains those three plus clemons, what the heck is the difference between a "package" and starters v. reserves?

[Art]

Give it a rest you guys opinion give no facts at all your what i'd call HATERS. Or FO wannabies ballwashers all the same and don't take it personally.All you can give is your opinion or your belief that the coaches have'nt been lieing or your belief that another player is better but the stats don't support that theory.

I'm a Lavar fan he is by far my favorite player no doubt. But i'm a diehard Skin fan 1st I was before LA and will be after LA has been long gone.

I'm not even crying for LA to play everydown but he should be playing period. I don't care if its a H-back he can help this team period. Thier is no reason other then personal that he is'nt lined up at De on 3rd downs or even going to 3 lineman with 4Lbers on 3rd and long to move LA around to blitz same difference. That I have a problem with thier is no way that thier is'nt more then 1-2 plays that LA could play in and help. If you don't believe that then your biased on the payroll or both.

This is now about the fourth time you've accused me of being on the payroll, which I can accept simply for having the ability to allow facts to enter my thoughts and even as you know it's not true. The ballwashwers thing I can not accept. And, I bet you knew it before you typed it, but, prefer to suggest it was anything OTHER than that which went over the line.

[DCsportsfan53]

So what doyou think this whole thing is about? His performance in practice, or the fact that he "embarassed the Redskins" with his contract dispute and his complaints about how his injury was handled? I think it's obvious it doesn't have anything to do with football.

I think that's completely untrue. Marcus Washington's quote, I think, sums it all up. He said Lavar doesn't fully trust his leg or the sytem yet and the coaches don't belive he has trust in either and they're not yet comfortable with him executing the system. Honestly, from the sounds of it this week, I think Lavar is become humbled and is starting to realize that if he just shuts up, goes all out and thinks like a teammate a not an indivdual he'll be out there soon. My guess is you'll start to see him this week. If you heard his JT interview this week every statement he made was about we the team, we the defense not me, Lavar Arrington. To me, that's an incredibly positive development and I think Lavar is getting it and will have an impact this year and for years to come.

[Ghost of]

Agreed with Art on that last post, Samuels.

I absolutely hated to hear "jock-rider" and "ball-washer" in earlier Qb discussions, and I can't stand to hear that now. And impugning the motivation of Om or Art based on their affiliation with the Skins is also a mistake. They believe what they believe, some of it based on inside info perhaps, most of it based on their belief in Gibbs, etc. We may differ on our DEGREE of faith or perspective on fallibility or the idea that laymen can see things that coaches do, but that is the source of the disagreement. Not their association with the Skins organization.

If you want to say some posters are apologists(for whatever reason that may be) then fine, that's not an overtly insulting term. But the images conjured by the terms you used are over the line.

I know someone will be here to tell me about the name i just invoked, but I did it only because I needed to convey my sense of the propagandist elements in some of the discussions, NOT to link anyone with "evil." (any more than the 'thread nazi' term that got used yesterday, was meant to associate anyone with an evil regime.)

[skinsRVA]

Hey Art thanks for the welcome. To you Loyal I say bring it on I'm a big boy and I can handle it after all I live in a town where there are a lot of Cow patty fans, so I think I can handle everyone else. At least I'm among friends here. I'm looking forward to this, it's gonna be great to read what's on everyone's mind. So rip away.

Now let me state on thing. I could give two monkeys about what Comcast says or what ESPN says or any of those windbags (i.e. Howie Long) on Fox say. I don't pay attention to rumor or inuendo. All I know is what I see when I watch a game and what I hear after the game. When Lord Gibbs starts in on his namby-pamby, wishy-washy we gotta do better verbage, it just makes me want to turn it off.

The bottom line is, to win a football game simply outscore your opponent by any means necessary. Hanging onto the ball in crucial drives is key. Brunell is a vet and he knows this. I refer back to my earlier post on the subject of turnovers on defense... we ain't got none and we need to get some. Enough with this conservative attitude all it's getting is frustrating. I've heard some of my Redskin buddies say that we have no pass rush due to the fact that we have no real dominent end, so until we can find one lets get LA on the field and send him from every direction. Heck If I'm an opposing QB and I see that monster coming at me all the time, I'm gonna be a little worried too.

If the "D" doesn't pick up the pace, the only thing that Coach "I'm bigger than the Game" is gonna be none for is how he sunk the ship. Just like he did in Buffalo.

And that's the bottom line.

[DCsportsfan53]

Also, I don't think the coaching staff has hanlded this poorly. When you want to come out and make statements saying they mishandled my injury or they won't tell why I'm not playing, I think there are alterior motives you force the staff to come out and refute that. None of the coaches wanted to come out and say he's not discipline and gives up big plays but if he's gonna tell these kind of fibs in the media, you can't expect the coaching staff to not refute these obvious falsifications.