jbooma Posted August 17, 2005 Share Posted August 17, 2005 Originally posted by bubba9497 and he's backing Ramsey and he should, it is still preseason, but if he plays like that the first couple of games he won't be able to stick with him, I want Pat to be the Pat we all think he can be, and hope he does become that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fansince62 Posted August 17, 2005 Share Posted August 17, 2005 1) Utah provided amplifiing information. He wasn't making a case before the Supreme Court. 2) You got a problem - you're guilty of the same obscurantism: what does develop mean? why....it means whatever I think it means! could be 1 season...could be five. could be 16 games...could be 72. That's the beauty of the open ended standard you parade for us wee-minded spectators to admire! I remember arguiing very noisily for PR tp move into the starting QB role early on and being beatne down with "he needs to hold the clipboard. He needs time to learn. This is all part of the development process" Now that he has played some games: "he hasn't played enough.he needs more gametime. he needs a stable system." The argument coming from the other side, my friend, is also built on shifting sands. and one last thing...while I undestand the need to project one's ego into these exchanges.....having done it myself when provoked....it doesn't accomplish much. If Utah has a betetr thought due to his experience...I benefit....just as he would benefit from my professional expertise in other areas. think of it as a commerce in ideas in which comparative advantage rules. everybody wins - it's not about ego. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubba9497 Posted August 17, 2005 Share Posted August 17, 2005 Originally posted by jbooma and he should, it is still preseason, but if he plays like that the first couple of games he won't be able to stick with him, I want Pat to be the Pat we all think he can be, and hope he does become that. :laugh: I love how he's played bad in 2 games already, though Saturday first the first pre-season game and he didn't play "bad" ..... but lets not let facts destroy your fantasy of being knowledgeable. :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herrmag Posted August 17, 2005 Share Posted August 17, 2005 Originally posted by Ghost of Nibbs McPimpin Yes, it's all about winning. Except that many of the critics don't seem concerned about how one develops a potential franchise QB (and franchise QBs are a big key in consistent winning.) That's what is missed in your delight to accuse us of dating Patrick or loving him too personally. I do care who comes out right or wrong. If you didn't, why even post? Why take a position on anything? Oh wait, you didn't actually take one, yours is "whoever wins" that way you don't have to be wrong. Except Utah already set you straight earlier in another thread. I give you credit for accepting the new knowledge he provided, though. So you're saying that since he wants the Redskins to win, not PR specifically, but the REDSKINS, regardless of who's at QB, you're going to mock him? I am of the same position: "whoever wins". What the he!! is wrong with that position???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herrmag Posted August 17, 2005 Share Posted August 17, 2005 Originally posted by bubba9497 :laugh: I love how he's played bad in 2 games already, though Saturday first the first pre-season game and he didn't play "bad" ..... but lets not let facts destroy your fantasy of being knowledgeable. :laugh: Again, as I always do when I criticize PR's play, it was only the 1st pre-season game, and I will save my "official" judgement of him for after the 3rd preseason game. However, he did have a poor 1st outing. He was only able to cross the 50-yard line twice (I heard that from Czaban's mouth, so if I'm wrong, correct me), threw one interception, scored 0 points, and played against Carolina's 2nd team defense for almost a full quarter. Not exactly lighting it up, was he? Also, if he didn't have a poor game, why did he think he did? Why did coach Gibbs think the offense in general did? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Posted August 17, 2005 Share Posted August 17, 2005 Originally posted by herrmag So you're saying that since he wants the Redskins to win, not PR specifically, but the REDSKINS, regardless of who's at QB, you're going to mock him? I am of the same position: "whoever wins". What the he!! is wrong with that position???? No, because while he claims "whoever wins,' many(not all) of those same people who claim that then launch(or just finished) into an anti-Ramsey post and talk about Brunell or Campbell. The other thing I DO NOT LIKE is how someone gets to claim "I'm just about winning" when maybe they don't get something very critical: Those of us who support Ramsey believe him to be (for various reasons) the future of the franchise at the QB position. Meaning, we believe he IS the best shot for long-term success that we have. I don't support Patrick just 'cuz or because I like him as a person. That's stupid and not consistent with my take on Brunell last year (brunell also being a good person, though less apt to take responsibility like Patrick does.) That's what annoys me. This new 'whoever wins' faction tries to sit the fence, but ends up only criticizing the pro-Ramsey crowd and issues anti-Ramsey critiques. Hard for me to take someone's stance seriously when they talk out of both sides of their mouth and then get personal with the ones they dispute (I'm dating Patrick, you got me, fansince62) So, I ask you now, if you only care who wins, why even participate in the debate between the 'two sides?' Why only criticize Ramsey's game and his supporters? It just seems very interesting to me, since I don't see the same people (except maybe one or two) actually say anything to or about the pro-Brunell or anti-Ramsey factions (not negative, at least.) The other thing I find interesting is that it took how many games of ATROCIOUS QB play before some of the same people decided it was enough. But a guy who gets seven starts and wins the QB job last year, as an essential rookie in a pro system, loses his job after the first game of preseason? And no offense, but when someone like Jbooma, known for his biases previously, suddenly becomes one of the leading 'fence-sitters' while doing nothing but criticizing Ramsey and implying Brunell will get the job---sorry, I'm not holding that side to be very credible in its assertions about its own objectivity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbooma Posted August 17, 2005 Share Posted August 17, 2005 Originally posted by bubba9497 :laugh: I love how he's played bad in 2 games already, though Saturday first the first pre-season game and he didn't play "bad" ..... but lets not let facts destroy your fantasy of being knowledgeable. :laugh: Bubba the offense passed the 50 twice in the first half, that is on the QB. Where are you getting two games from?? He has played one preseason game, I am not saying bench him so please stop putting words in my mouth. As for silly posts, you might want to look in the mirror for your obsession with Lenny :laugh: :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang Posted August 17, 2005 Share Posted August 17, 2005 This is ridiculous. Ramsey didn't play THAT badly. For all we KNOW he may have been told where to throw it. For all we KNOW he may have been told to work on shorter touch passes. The notion he zeroed in on his throws is true sometimes, but he checked down to backs a LOT which tells me he made a read and threw to the outlet man. For all we KNOW the receivers downfield may have been blanketed and caused him to check underneath. The swing passes and short throws to guys in the flat seemed to be decent gainers to me. He had a bad throw in his first long ball, but of ALL things we shouldn't be concerned about it's his arm strength. He won't underthrow many like that. We have the luxury of a good defense to help out when that happens. Forget about Rod Gardner beating Ade Jimook around and scoring.. Jimoh won't see the field unless catastrophe strikes the secondary. What do we know? He made a bad throw, but he completed 70% of what he threw. He played a little more than a quarter.. if i may put forth the idea,, Ramsey is and always has been a second half QB. The guy has shown me plenty in the fourth quarter of a lot of games. Sometimes he's fallen short.. but he has also pulled us back from some big deficits and put us in position to win. Sometimes he's made a mistake, like in Philly last year.. sometimes he's had bad luck, like in Philly the year before when he got us back from 17 down in the fourth quarter and lost because his 2 point conversion was a hair off. How about in Atlanta when we were down 17-0 in the first quarter, and ahead at halftime. We've seen his moxie. Our defense is light years ahead of what we had when he was starting last. He shouldn't have to be pulling us out of deep holes, but it's those games that showed me what he can do. Does he need work? Sure. He's got plenty of time to practice. Is it time to scream the sky is falling? Hell no. Give the kid a chance to play football. We've seen him play as well as could be expected behind the worst line in Redskins history a few years ago... we've seen him come in last year and play well down the stretch. Now let's see what he can do with consistent coaching and the chance to accept the position. ~Bang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbooma Posted August 17, 2005 Share Posted August 17, 2005 Originally posted by Ghost of Nibbs McPimpin And no offense, but when someone like Jbooma, known for his biases previously, suddenly becomes one of the leading 'fence-sitters' while doing nothing but criticizing Ramsey and implying Brunell will get the job---sorry, I'm not holding that side to be very credible in its assertions about its own objectivity. Ghost stop it right there. I have said all along I want the "best" qb to play, thats it, whomever it is. You forget it is you with the incredible bias of a player and refusing to admit you are wrong not me. Heck I bet you still do not think Mark played well on Saturday yet everyone else knows he did. I have said this year I want Pat to play well, but we can not wait like last year to make a change. I guess you forgot last year when Brunell stunk it up I said get him out, but that again you have always had a selective memory :doh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herrmag Posted August 17, 2005 Share Posted August 17, 2005 Ghost- I'm not going to quote b/cuz it's too long a post. However, the title of this thread is calling out to people that think Ramsey is going to do poorly. It specifically addresses people that do, which is why there are so many here. I personally have no idea whether or not he will succeed this year. I sure hope he does, but I'm not going to dismiss my feelings when I think a player had a poor outing. I don't think critiquing one's play is "bashing". I will praise a player when they perform, and I will criticize when they underperform. That's my right as a fan that spends money on tickets and team merchandise. Granted, I've read a few posts (not necessarily in this thread) that certainly go overboard. However, I think the majority of us that have criticized PR's play have been fair in our assessments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubba9497 Posted August 17, 2005 Share Posted August 17, 2005 Originally posted by herrmag However, he did have a poor 1st outing. He was only able to cross the 50-yard line twice (I heard that from Czaban's mouth, so if I'm wrong, correct me), threw one interception, scored 0 points, and played against Carolina's 2nd team defense for almost a full quarter. Not exactly lighting it up, was he? Also, if he didn't have a poor game, why did he think he did? Why did coach Gibbs think the offense in general did? Not "lighting it up"... ain't "Playing Bad" now is it???? he went 8-12 for 77 yards... He made quick CORRECT READS, and every pass went to the correct open receiver... not his fault they did not get farther down the field... he took what the defense gave him. He made a terrible short ball on the int, and overthrew Patten twice, once under heavy rush (a throw away ball) He had another nice gain taken away with a holding penalty, he played against the starters for almost every drive except maybe the last one... though their was still some starters out there. He also didn't have Portis or Betts after the second series... he also avoided the rush a couple times. Gibbs quote on Ramsey: On the play of QB #11 Patrick Ramsey: "It was one of those outings where he did some very good things. He made some real good moves in the pocket to get the ball to people. I think there were some good plays and a couple opportunities we missed." CZABES!!! holy ****.... why are you listening to that jerk off? Did you even watch the game??? by your comments you didn't so you are basing your argument second hand from someone else's opinion. :doh: Originally posted by jbooma Bubba the offense passed the 50 twice in the first half, that is on the QB. Where are you getting two games from?? He has played one preseason game, I am not saying bench him so please stop putting words in my mouth. As for silly posts, you might want to look in the mirror for your obsession with Lenny :laugh: :laugh: jbooma... the offense not moving is on THE OFFENSE, all 11 players... not just the QB :doh:... Ramsey made the correct reads, to the open reciever.... No one said he played great... just he did not play "bad" as you want to make everyone believe. 2 games posted quote: and he should, it is still preseason, but if he plays like that the first couple of games he won't be able to stick with him, I want Pat to be the Pat we all think he can be, and hope he does become that. Okay I misread that one.... you're excused:laugh: And where exactly was Lenny discussed in this thread???? your lossing what little you have left... sad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herrmag Posted August 17, 2005 Share Posted August 17, 2005 Originally posted by bubba9497 Not "lighting it up"... ain't "Playing Bad" now is it???? he went 8-12 for 77 yards... ] Wow, so he was on pace to throw for a WHOPPING 154 yards. Great. CZABES!!! holy ****.... why are you listening to that jerk off? Did you even watch the game??? by your comments you didn't so you are basing your argument second hand from someone else's opinion. :doh: Yes, I watched the game. I was speaking specifically about passing the 50-yard line twice. However, I didn't tape it, so couldn't go back and verify. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fansince62 Posted August 17, 2005 Share Posted August 17, 2005 bubba....cncur that more time is needed.......disagree that the QB is one among 11. The QB is the difference maker - that should be obvious from salary structure on through to simple statistics such as who is involved in every offensive play (almost all). It's the critical position. It's the one position where, if you have a great player (think Favre) you always hahve a chance. and all NFL teams are looking for the next great QB. so...sure....give PR time to develop (as long as that is defined - and I have no doubt whatsoever that JG knows what that means to him). but there is nothing wrong with taking notes along the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubba9497 Posted August 17, 2005 Share Posted August 17, 2005 Originally posted by herrmag Wow, so he was on pace to throw for a WHOPPING 154 yards. Great. Yes, I watched the game. I was speaking specifically about passing the 50-yard line twice. However, I didn't tape it, so couldn't go back and verify. He was on pace for 33/34 out of 50 for 320 yards since the Skins called 50 pass attempts again you are blaming him because the WR couldn't get open downfield but once..... unfortunately that was his worse pass. but again one pass out of 12 doesn't make him bad. Thrash stumbled on a catch that could have gotten more yardage... and no it was not because of Ramsey's throw... hit thrash in the stomach Also a lot of Campbell's yards came from a big screen pass.... hardly anything spectacular on his part. but everyone is all giddy about him... he didn't score, and also had a pick. But he has "it" :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
project myu Posted August 17, 2005 Share Posted August 17, 2005 If Ramsey leads the Redskins to the playoffs, I'm sure all the Ramsey-bashers will talk about how they are happy to eat crow since the Redskins did so well, but I don't ever want to hear them talk as if they have any football knowledge ever again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Posted August 17, 2005 Share Posted August 17, 2005 Originally posted by project myu If Ramsey leads the Redskins to the playoffs, I'm sure all the Ramsey-bashers will talk about how they are happy to eat crow since the Redskins did so well, but I don't ever want to hear them talk as if they have any football knowledge ever again. BINGO! :notworthy Of course, that goes for me too. :doh: :shutup: (though much depends on WHAT and HOW something was said, I think. Some people are good at breaking down a play but not so good at seeing 'flashes' from a player. So I think the people who end up eating crow need only refrain from making too many presumptive comments about someone's pro potential.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubba9497 Posted August 17, 2005 Share Posted August 17, 2005 Originally posted by project myu If Ramsey leads the Redskins to the playoffs, I'm sure all the Ramsey-bashers will talk about how they are happy to eat crow since the Redskins did so well, but I don't ever want to hear them talk as if they have any football knowledge ever again. hasn't stopped them yet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregpeck99 Posted August 17, 2005 Share Posted August 17, 2005 IMO Ramsey is limited physically and lacks the athleticism to be a successful playoff-winning QB. It matters little that he is not given more opprotunity to improve, or that he may someday be a winning QB. In today's NFL, the cycle is very short and the team must maximize its resources. Currently, I am hard pressed to conclude that PR is the best we have at QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted August 17, 2005 Share Posted August 17, 2005 Originally posted by project myu If Ramsey leads the Redskins to the playoffs, I'm sure all the Ramsey-bashers will talk about how they are happy to eat crow since the Redskins did so well, but I don't ever want to hear them talk as if they have any football knowledge ever again. This is the stuff that drives me crazy. So since I've been quoted as saying that I want Brunell to start if he outplays Ramsey and earns the starting job, I can't enjoy a great season by Ramsey? Nice. From the sounds of it, if the Skins make a run on the coattails of MB or JC, there will be some unhappy people on this board... I'm assuming there will be a post telling me that THAT was an exaggeration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stone Cold Posted August 17, 2005 Share Posted August 17, 2005 The QB is the difference maker - that should be obvious from salary structure on through to simple statistics such as who is involved in every offensive play (almost all). It's the critical position. It's the one position where, if you have a great player (think Favre) you always hahve a chance. and all NFL teams are looking for the next great QB. trent dilfer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted August 18, 2005 Share Posted August 18, 2005 Originally posted by Stone Cold trent dilfer There are the occassional examples, sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey T Posted August 18, 2005 Share Posted August 18, 2005 Originally posted by bubba9497 except he hasn't played poorly My eyes deceive me? I have seen the young man play poorly on quite a few occasions. I'm not busting your chops, just telling you what I saw. My throat is still raw from screaming "throw the d@mn ball". Patrick does not see the field very well IMHO, thus he lacks confidence in his ability to make a must throw. There is never a good time to throw an INT, but he has the tenacity to do it at the most inopportune times. Did I forget to mention he is a dancer. Has happy feet. If between now and the opener, somehow his QB coach can settle him down, maybe. He has the arm and the guts:cool: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbooma Posted August 18, 2005 Share Posted August 18, 2005 Originally posted by bubba9497 Okay I misread that one.... you're excused:laugh: And where exactly was Lenny discussed in this thread???? your lossing what little you have left... sad Did you read, you said that one comment was one of the silliest statements i made, i was just mentioned it was not as silly as some of the stuff you have said in the past about Lenny. The part about Ramsey moving the offense is correct, he was the one that threw the incomplete passes on third and that terrible pick, as well that terrible play near the endzone. The difference when Brunell stepped in and was able to move the team with the second string O showed a difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbooma Posted August 18, 2005 Share Posted August 18, 2005 Originally posted by bubba9497 He was on pace for 33/34 out of 50 for 320 yards since the Skins called 50 pass attempts I see you failed math, he completed what 64% or something else, yet you wrote 33/34 :laugh: Please do not mention me writing anything silly now after that. You keep saying the WR's were not getting open, but they did for the other QB's, hmmmm interesting He went 8-12 and weren't 7 of those 8 like dumpoffs? How many were for first downs and more then 20 yards?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubba9497 Posted August 18, 2005 Share Posted August 18, 2005 Originally posted by Joey T My eyes deceive me? I have seen the young man play poorly on quite a few occasions. I'm not busting your chops, just telling you what I saw. My throat is still raw from screaming "throw the d@mn ball". Patrick does not see the field very well IMHO, thus he lacks confidence in his ability to make a must throw. There is never a good time to throw an INT, but he has the tenacity to do it at the most inopportune times. Did I forget to mention he is a dancer. Has happy feet. If between now and the opener, somehow his QB coach can settle him down, maybe. He has the arm and the guts:cool: reread my posts...I was talking about against Carolina and no he doesn't have "happy feet" :rolleyes: and the point being made was against Carolina he made every read correctly, and threw to the open wr.... with quick decision two bogus "flaws" he was accused of having as well as pocket awarness avoiding the rush Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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