Umm...Why are people freakin out over Ramseys scrimmage performance?!?!??!?!

[HailRedskins30]

Originally posted by goldenster95

You're kidding, right? Look what he did when he was the starter last year. If he started the whole season, we would've been in the playoffs.

Thats not accurate at all. Ramsey has cost the Redskins many games due to poor decisions and his inability to think quickly. He's had that problem ever since he's been in the league and does not seem to improve.

[Goaldeje]

I understand why people are not happy with Ramsey yet. There are problems there, and that is why Campbell was drafted. Gibbs has this covered. As many of you have pointed out, had Ramsey started the whole year, we probably would have been in the playoffs. It's hard to see how our offense got worse this off season with the additions of Rabach and Jansen, another year in the system, etc., our WR corps without a guy who drops half his passes and a one foot man. So even if our O improves only incrementally, we have an excellent shot at making the playoffs. And if everyone's fears are realized, and Ramsey doesn't step up and seize control of the starting job as he should, Gibbs has a back up plan. People do need to stop calling for Campbell NOW though. We've not seen him at all. If he looks that much better than Ramsey, we have a prodigy here, and Gibbs will take care of him. Let's all remember, there is a reason we are in accounting, real estate, sales, etc., and not football.

[GSF]

Originally posted by tizzod

Um, granted, I'm a moron, but didn't Portis get 1200-1300 yards last year? How many teams would have loved to have had a 1200-1300 yard rusher? We had a 1200-1300 yard rusher that everyone seems to be unanimous in the fact that he SUCKED last year! :laugh: How good is this beast gonna be in 2005 with a decent center, Jansen back, and new blocking schemes? Okay, he didn't score 500 touchdowns, but you can't argue with the yards. Red zone offense was addressed this offseason too, I might point out.

Come on, dude. Think before you post. I am trying to work on that myself, but you try it too please.

Actually, I thought his post was 1 of the more thoughtful in the thread. Every defense we face is going to make Pat beat them. Everyone knows we had a terrible passing game last season, and everyone knows that Gibbs will run Portis a ton. Sure Portis put up some respectable yards, but he did that with a huge number of carries. No matter how improved the oline and receivers are, if Pat can't find the open man and make the throws we'll be mediocre at best. Ramsey struggling with the same problems he's always struggled with is legitimate reason for concern.

Now, having said that, I'm not freaking out yet. This was the first action of the year, against a great defense that apparently came to play. Maybe they just caught Pat and the rest of the offense a little off guard. We're all waiting though for Pat to show some more awareness and touch. If he doesn't start showing some real improvement by the end of preseason we definitely have a problem.

[GSF]

Originally posted by goldenster95

You're kidding, right? Look what he did when he was the starter last year. If he started the whole season, we would've been in the playoffs.

He really didn't do that much. He did have a few flashes, but the games he won were tight and mostly won with defense. Gibbs never really took the training wheels off the offense last year.

[skins4eva]

Let's put it this way: I'd much rather have Ramesy than Boller, and anyone who puts stock in a preseason scrimmage is absolutely insane

[goldenster95]

Originally posted by HailRedskins30

Thats not accurate at all. Ramsey has cost the Redskins many games due to poor decisions and his inability to think quickly. He's had that problem ever since he's been in the league and does not seem to improve.

That's in part true, but it's in part because of his lack of starting experience. Once again, he hasn't gottten a fair shot. His poor decisions have been dwindling down because -- guess what? -- the experience he attains when he starts more. Part of this poor decisionmaking process is a product of his belief that he can gun the ball in a hole. Well, with the work on his touch, that's going to help a whole lot.

[goldenster95]

Originally posted by GSF

He really didn't do that much. He did have a few flashes, but the games he won were tight and mostly won with defense. Gibbs never really took the training wheels off the offense last year.

You're kidding right? He did pretty damn well, especially considering that he faced three of top teams and defenses during his starting stint.

Man, what do you want, especially from somebody who's had the limited starting experience he's had?

[Hooper]

What scares me the most is that our rookie qb looks far more poised -- FAR MORE -- than our starter.

[Om]

Wrote this in another, quieter thread, but as this seems to be the one people are focusing on ...

The only negative I would even begin to consider at this point are the reports that Pat looked a little indecisive out there early on. That's the one area I'd hoped he would show the most progress in from jump, and I thought yesterday would have been a nice place to start seeing it. If for no other reason than his confidence, and everyone else's confidence IN him.

But to worry TOO much about it at this point is silly. The Ravens are really, really good on D. They were playing in front of 35K in their backyard, and clearly fired up as hell. It was Pat's first crack against an unfamiliar D with this new stable of receivers. I THINK the Ravens have been in camp perhaps a week longer than the Skins (not sure about that, however). And you just know he was so focused and intent on NOT making mistakes that he was not just cutting it loose.

Excuses? I suppose some will think so. But to me, just the context.

Here's the thing to remember:

The 2005 Redskins will NOT win based on the strengths of any one player, not even their quarterback. If this team wins, it will be because Gibbs and Williams and Co. will have built a TEAM---offense, defense, special teams, chemistry, schemes, etc.---that becomes more than the sum of its individual parts. We're not Philly---we're not going to rely on Patrick to "make plays" on his own to win games. He, and the team, are going to fail or succeed based on the whole TEAM playing as one.

That's why Gibbs' teams NEVER look good in scrimmages or preseason games. That goes back to his first go around here. The Steelers used to routinely beat the hell out of us up in Latrobe in these early "scrimmages," and we would look awful and outmatched and people would fret. And it's why we'd routinely lose and look confused and overmatched in preseason games ... and people would fret more.

But somehow, mysteriously, every year, once the regular season rolled around, the Redskins would suddenly look crisper, more organized and more together than the other guys ... and would find ways to win games, week after week after week.

So until this team---and Ramsey in particular---starts looking tight, disorganized or overmatched in REAL games, when the full force of Gibbs and Williams wizardry are brought to bear, I refuse to read anything meaningful into their performances. I remember my history and have learned from it.

Could Pat have looked better? Of course. Will he, when it counts?

Stay tuned.

[RDSKNfaithfull]

Gibbs did say the main focus yesterday was the guys past the starters.

[GSF]

Originally posted by goldenster95

You're kidding right? He did pretty damn well, especially considering that he faced three of top teams and defenses during his starting stint.

Man, what do you want, especially from somebody who's had the limited starting experience he's had?

Uh no, I'm not kidding. Don't misunderstand, I'm still hoping for big things from Pat this year, and I totally agree with your point from your other post that he hasn't really had a fair chance yet. I'm just saying Pat didn't exactly break out last year. He managed to not lose a few games while playing under a very tight leash from Gibbs. I wouldn't exactly say he played pretty damn well. Do I think he can? Hell yes. I just started a thread a few weeks ago on here saying that Pat would break out this year. I'm just saying let's be realistic about what Pat has done so far.

[authentic]

Originally posted by Om

Wrote this in another, quieter thread, but as this seems to be the one people are focusing on ...

The only negative I would even begin to consider at this point are the reports that Pat looked a little indecisive out there early on. That's the one area I'd hoped he would show the most progress in from jump, and I thought yesterday would have been a nice place to start seeing it. If for no other reason than his confidence, and everyone else's confidence IN him.

But to worry TOO much about it at this point is silly. The Ravens are really, really good on D. They were playing in front of 35K in their backyard, and clearly fired up as hell. It was Pat's first crack against an unfamiliar D with this new stable of receivers. I THINK the Ravens have been in camp perhaps a week longer than the Skins (not sure about that, however). And you just know he was so focused and intent on NOT making mistakes that he was not just cutting it loose.

Excuses? I suppose some will think so. But to me, just the context.

Here's the thing to remember:

The 2005 Redskins will NOT win based on the strengths of any one player, not even their quarterback. If this team wins, it will be because Gibbs and Williams and Co. will have built a TEAM---offense, defense, special teams, chemistry, schemes, etc.---that becomes more than the sum of its individual parts. We're not Philly---we're not going to rely on Patrick to "make plays" on his own to win games. He, and the team, are going to fail or succeed based on the whole TEAM playing as one.

That's why Gibbs' teams NEVER look good in scrimmages or preseason games. That goes back to his first go around here. The Steelers used to routinely beat the hell out of us up in Latrobe in these early "scrimmages," and we would look awful and outmatched and people would fret. And it's why we'd routinely lose and look confused and overmatched in preseason games ... and people would fret more.

But somehow, mysteriously, every year, once the regular season rolled around, the Redskins would suddenly look crisper, more organized and more together than the other guys ... and would find ways to win games, week after week after week.

So until this team---and Ramsey in particular---starts looking tight, disorganized or overmatched in REAL games, when the full force of Gibbs and Williams wizardry are brought to bear, I refuse to read anything meaningful into their performances. I remember my history and have learned from it.

Could Pat have looked better? Of course. Will he, when it counts?

Stay tuned.

well said man, i feel the same way

[Mooka]

Originally posted by tizzod

Um, granted, I'm a moron, but didn't Portis get 1200-1300 yards last year? How many teams would have loved to have had a 1200-1300 yard rusher? We had a 1200-1300 yard rusher that everyone seems to be unanimous in the fact that he SUCKED last year! :laugh: How good is this beast gonna be in 2005 with a decent center, Jansen back, and new blocking schemes? Okay, he didn't score 500 touchdowns, but you can't argue with the yards. Red zone offense was addressed this offseason too, I might point out.

Come on, dude. Think before you post. I am trying to work on that myself, but you try it too please.

Sure i can argue with the yards. I always think before I post and the fact is our offense sucked last year and our rushing game was pathetic. Clinton had 1300 yards, big deal.

Heres our team rushing stats of last year:

471rushes for 1765yds, 3.7ypc and 6 rushing tds

those stats are absolutely horrendous. Portis might've had 1300 yards but he only had 5 rushing tds and had a dismal 3.8ypc. Of course none of this was Clinton's fault and he showed surprising toughness. I'm not trying to put Clinton down because I think hes a top 5 back in the NFL with more talent than anyone else except maybe LT. He took a beating and started 15 games; always seeming to be determined to go back out there when the opposing Defenses were stacking against him every down.

However, too put this into perspective heres our team rushing stats of 2003 with Trung Candidate, Rock, Ladell, and Chad Morton:

421rushes for 1653yds, 3.9ypc and 8 rushing tds

So technically, since your so into stats, our rushing game was less effective with Clinton.

Think before I post? Why don't you think beyond a simple stat of 1300 yards for Clinton. I'm not jumping for joy over the only stat in our entire offense last year that wasn't pathetic. Ok 1300 yards great. 3.8ypc bad, 5 rushing tds, bad. Only 4 rushes for 20yards or more, bad. Sorry to be so negative but I don't think theres a single team in the NFL last year that would've taken 1300 yards for their featured back if he averaged 3.8ypc and only had 5 rushing tds. Even the Miami dolphins with no passing game and no featured back managed to scrap 10 rushing tds. (Of course thier ypc was even worse then ours: 3.5 ewww)

How good is Clinton gonna be with Jansen back, Rabach and a new blocking scheme? He will be better thats for sure, but will it get the Redskins to a winning season? Not with opposing Defenses having no respect for our passing game. Teams were begging us to throw last year and we couldn't get it done whether it was poor QB'ing, the O-Line faultering, our WR's not getting open, or penalties.

Why is there reason for optimisim? Becuase I think Ramsey can get the job done if our receivers can get some seperation, the O-Line protects better and we get fewer penalties. I've never seen so many blown opportunities in my life as last season. There were single coverages all over the place but we couldn't take advantage of them. Once we do; our offense will open up, our play-action will be amazing and Clinton will not only get 1500+yds but more importantly his ypc and rushing tds will go up.

:2cents:

[goldenster95]

Originally posted by GSF

Uh no, I'm not kidding. Don't misunderstand, I'm still hoping for big things from Pat this year, and I totally agree with your point from your other post that he hasn't really had a fair chance yet. I'm just saying Pat didn't exactly break out last year. He managed to not lose a few games while playing under a very tight leash from Gibbs. I wouldn't exactly say he played pretty damn well. Do I think he can? Hell yes. I just started a thread a few weeks ago on here saying that Pat would break out this year. I'm just saying let's be realistic about what Pat has done so far.

I agree that Pat didn't break out last year, and even if he did do so in his starting stints, I'd be of the view that that's not a representative sampling either because he didn't do that over a season. But what do you expect from someone who's running a woefully abridged offense against some of the top defenses out there? He did pretty damn well considering.

[goldenster95]

Originally posted by Mooka

Sure i can argue with the yards. I always think before I post and the fact is our offense sucked last year and our rushing game was pathetic. Clinton had 1300 yards, big deal.

Heres our team rushing stats of last year:

471rushes for 1765yds, 3.7ypc and 6 rushing tds

those stats are absolutely horrendous. Portis might've had 1300 yards but he only had 5 rushing tds and had a dismal 3.8ypc. Of course none of this was Clinton's fault and he showed surprising toughness. I'm not trying to put Clinton down because I think hes a top 5 back in the NFL with more talent than anyone else except maybe LT. He took a beating and started 15 games; always seeming to be determined to go back out there when the opposing Defenses were stacking against him every down.

However, too put this into perspective heres our team rushing stats of 2003 with Trung Candidate, Rock, Ladell, and Chad Morton:

421rushes for 1653yds, 3.9ypc and 8 rushing tds

So technically, since your so into stats, our rushing game was less effective with Clinton.

Think before I post? Why don't you think beyond a simple stat of 1300 yards for Clinton. I'm not jumping for joy over the only stat in our entire offense last year that wasn't pathetic. Ok 1300 yards great. 3.8ypc bad, 5 rushing tds, bad. Only 4 rushes for 20yards or more, bad. Sorry to be so negative but I don't think theres a single team in the NFL last year that would've taken 1300 yards for their featured back if he averaged 3.8ypc and only had 5 rushing tds. Even the Miami dolphins with no passing game and no featured back managed to scrap 10 rushing tds. (Of course thier ypc was even worse then ours: 3.5 ewww)

How good is Clinton gonna be with Jansen back, Rabach and a new blocking scheme? He will be better thats for sure, but will it get the Redskins to a winning season? Not with opposing Defenses having no respect for our passing game. Teams were begging us to throw last year and we couldn't get it done whether it was poor QB'ing, the O-Line faultering, our WR's not getting open, or penalties.

Why is there reason for optimisim? Becuase I think Ramsey can get the job done if our receivers can get some seperation, the O-Line protects better and we get fewer penalties. I've never seen so many blown opportunities in my life as last season. There were single coverages all over the place but we couldn't take advantage of them. Once we do; our offense will open up, our play-action will be amazing and Clinton will not only get 1500+yds but more importantly his ypc and rushing tds will go up.

:2cents:

Ummmmm, are you kidding? . . . 1300 yards? . . . and you're taking issue with that? . . . if Portis played the whole season, he would've set a 'Skins record for rushing yards.

And those 1300 yards were arguably better than those 1500 yard seasons he had before since each of last year's yards were earned the hard way . . . and they were earned in a horrendously simplistic offense which featured no passing game, behind a leaky o-line, and behind a blocking scheme ill-suited to Portis himself . . .

And are you saying that his 3.8 ypc were bad considering the yards he gained last year?

[rdskns n 05]

Look, we drafted Campbell because we all knew there might be a problem there, if Ramsey screws it up, it is on him, he has no excuses this year

:2cents:

[Walking Deadman]

Originally posted by rdskns n 05

Look, we drafted Campbell because we all knew there might be a problem there, if Ramsey screws it up, it is on him, he has no excuses this year

:2cents:

Yep,

That's it--- plus. Brunell is gone before the 2006 season, and Campbell will become our #2 or if Ramsey struggles will get his shot at #1 in 06.

[goldenster95]

Originally posted by goskins

Yep,

That's it--- plus. Brunell is gone before the 2006 season, and Campbell will become our #2 or if Ramsey struggles will get his shot at #1 in 06.

Brunell will probably be cut after June 1, 2006, thus allowing us to split our cap hit but leaving dead money for 2007.

[goldenster95]

Originally posted by Om

Wrote this in another, quieter thread, but as this seems to be the one people are focusing on ...

The only negative I would even begin to consider at this point are the reports that Pat looked a little indecisive out there early on. That's the one area I'd hoped he would show the most progress in from jump, and I thought yesterday would have been a nice place to start seeing it. If for no other reason than his confidence, and everyone else's confidence IN him.

But to worry TOO much about it at this point is silly. The Ravens are really, really good on D. They were playing in front of 35K in their backyard, and clearly fired up as hell. It was Pat's first crack against an unfamiliar D with this new stable of receivers. I THINK the Ravens have been in camp perhaps a week longer than the Skins (not sure about that, however). And you just know he was so focused and intent on NOT making mistakes that he was not just cutting it loose.

Excuses? I suppose some will think so. But to me, just the context.

Here's the thing to remember:

The 2005 Redskins will NOT win based on the strengths of any one player, not even their quarterback. If this team wins, it will be because Gibbs and Williams and Co. will have built a TEAM---offense, defense, special teams, chemistry, schemes, etc.---that becomes more than the sum of its individual parts. We're not Philly---we're not going to rely on Patrick to "make plays" on his own to win games. He, and the team, are going to fail or succeed based on the whole TEAM playing as one.

That's why Gibbs' teams NEVER look good in scrimmages or preseason games. That goes back to his first go around here. The Steelers used to routinely beat the hell out of us up in Latrobe in these early "scrimmages," and we would look awful and outmatched and people would fret. And it's why we'd routinely lose and look confused and overmatched in preseason games ... and people would fret more.

But somehow, mysteriously, every year, once the regular season rolled around, the Redskins would suddenly look crisper, more organized and more together than the other guys ... and would find ways to win games, week after week after week.

So until this team---and Ramsey in particular---starts looking tight, disorganized or overmatched in REAL games, when the full force of Gibbs and Williams wizardry are brought to bear, I refuse to read anything meaningful into their performances. I remember my history and have learned from it.

Could Pat have looked better? Of course. Will he, when it counts?

Stay tuned.

Exactly. Bingo.

[fansince62]

frankly...I'm tired of the whole "he can...he can't" PR soap opera. He was a first round pick (ok...late in the round). I don't want to hear any more excuses of any kind. I want a field general who can get the *amn ball to receivers when it counts and can pull magic out of the hopper. I don't want a serviceable QB - you know....the "don't hurt the team" variety. We need a no kidding leader who permeates the whole stadium with "we are always in it when I'm in the game" QB. Anyone feel that way about PR to this point?

no argument on allowing time for him to perform - the obverse of it's too early to tell. in the end, however - you either break out or you don't. PR is nearing the end on that one.

[Mooka]

Originally posted by goldenster95

And are you saying that his 3.8 ypc were bad considering the yards he gained last year?

no

I'm saying that overall 3.8ypc and 5rushing tds is very bad. Like you said in a different thread, stats don't mean much, because if you look at the stats our running game got worse with the addition of Portis.

Clinton was very admirable last year and the 1300yards reflects his toughness, heart and durability. (things people doubted him on)

All this proves is that Clinton needs help from our blocking schemes and O-Line (things we've improved on vastly) and more importantly he needs help from the passing game. (TBD)

And to be honest I was a little annoyed with someone accusing me of a thoughtless post.

[goldenster95]

Originally posted by Mooka

no

I'm saying that overall 3.8ypc and 5rushing tds is very bad. Like you said in a different thread, stats don't mean much, because if you look at the stats our running game got worse with the addition of Portis.

Clinton was very admirable last year and the 1300yards reflects his toughness, heart and durability. (things people doubted him on)

All this proves is that Clinton needs help from our blocking schemes and O-Line (things we've improved on vastly) and more importantly he needs help from the passing game. (TBD)

And to be honest I was a little annoyed with someone accusing me of a thoughtless post.

I'm not so sure about the fact that our running game got worse with Portis in the mix.

As for Portis' numbers, compare them to Tomlinson's:

LT: 15 games, 1335 yards, 3.9 ypc, 17 TDs

CP: 15 games, 1315 yards, 3.8 ypc, 5 TDs

Both RBs had nearly identical numbers but for the TDs. And that's clearly attributable to the offenses, namely the passing game, both played in. Tomlinson had Brees, who had a huge year in racking up a triple digit QB rating. Portis had nothing of the sort. Indeed, if Portis and LT switched spots, Portis would've had much better numbers than LT did.

Despite all that, Tomlinson was deemed a Pro-Bowl back. I'm not so sure why Portis wouldn't merit some of the same accolades as well.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

For those that are very nervous about the upcoming season:

Why would we praise Snyder for bringing in Gibbs to "fix" our problems if we're going to sit here and doubt that these problems can be fixed?

I think we're best served to take everything at face value and enjoy the scrimmages, training camp coverage, and preseason games. We have NO CLUE what to expect once the regular season starts.

I'm expecting the best. I think we'll have a solid offense (based on running and timely passing), a strong defense, and a much-improved special teams.

What I'm not expecting is that I'll understand HOW Joe Gibbs will get us there. If I could do that, I'd be making $5M per year to do it. Trust that our experienced coaching staff can get it right!

[PREDICTOR]

a passing game is predicated upon 3 things. The QB, the offensive line, and the receiver. From what I have been reading and watching, all 3 phases of this game were out of synch this past weekend so it is surprising that Patrick did as well as he did quite honestly.

[budski]

We are desperate for the season to begin.