Poll: Bigger Idiot Winslow or Taylor

[dfbovey]

I'd rank Taylor as the bigger idiot right now. Taylor went out with the intent of hurting someone else while Winslow really only put himself in danger.

Taylor seems to have far more to list on his resume as well. Missing the rookie symposium... The dropped DUI charges... wanting a new contract after one season and now this.

[e16bball]

Just to clear something up, it would cost us $6M against our cap next year to release/trade Sean Taylor. So, not only would it be completely idiotic to get rid of him from a personnel standpoint, it's also not financially feasible.

[kappaluvacee]

Taylor did a really stupid thing. There’s no doubt about that, but remember people you are only hearing bits and pieces of the story. I’m going to let this thing play out and not accept the media stuff on this. We don’t know the circumstances surrounding the situation. If you steal from me and I catch you with my stuff you are subject to get whatever punishment I can inflict on you at the time. Think about some things not mentioned in the press. How would someone steal 2 ATV’s from you? It would have to be by force so what if he was robbed of these at gunpoint? A lot of you guys are going to say he should have called the cops then, but I’ll tell you this: That would have cost him his PASS in his neighborhood for life. Many of you won’t understand that aspect to growing up in the hood, and honestly it isn’t intended for everyone to understand. I’ll tell you this much, there are plenty of other players on the team that will act similarly in a similar situation so don’t be so quick to condemn this man. My guess about what happened is this: Sean or somebody close to him was violently robbed of the ATV’s. I’m thinking the attackers were recognizable and recognized as persons from a particular area within the city. After getting the info I think they played it cool and tracked down the information before confirming that it was indeed the individuals and the vehicles in question. Once that was established I think he entered the mindset that these people are about to get what’s coming to them for taking my stuff. The rest we can all read from various media outlets. I am not commending Sean for his actions that night, but I’m not condemning him either. If the courts say Sean should get jail time, then so be it. That’s the price you pay for taking the law in your own hands. One of the reasons that people disrespect athletes and their property is because they believe most of them are too soft to do anything about it until they run up on the Sean Taylor’s, Gary Sheffield’s, and Ray Lewis types. They are blatant reminders to the general public that you can’t just run up on these guys. Sean is a man before he is a Washington Redskin and he protected something he holds close to his manhood by doing what he did. I would feel absolutely different if I were reading a story where Sean was high and decided to run in the middle of the freeway waving a pistol at motorist. That’s not what happened and I’m giving him the benefit of the doubt because ultimately he’ll be the one that pays the price for his actions. I will still be a Sean Taylor fan and 80% of the posters stating how stupid he is today will cheer when he puts T.O. out of the game or knocks Bledsoe into retirement. Also let this be a notice to the barroom tough guys around this board. These guys will hurt you of you disrespect them so don’t let your Miller Lite’s get you into deep doo.

[Taylor 36]

Originally posted by e16bball

Just to clear something up, it would cost us $6M against our cap next year to release/trade Sean Taylor. So, not only would it be completely idiotic to get rid of him from a personnel standpoint, it's also not financially feasible.

Ah, but there are clauses in players contracts as well as under NFL rules and regulations that could absorb or take away most if not all of that cap hit. Though I do not know the specifics of Taylor's contract, being as savvy a business man as Snyder is, I would think their would be some language about money due/owed in the case of felony convictions and/or long term incarcerations.

[Excel]

I can't even vote on this.

Much to hard to answer.

[Clutch03]

Originally posted by kappaluvacee

Taylor did a really stupid thing. There’s no doubt about that, but remember people you are only hearing bits and pieces of the story. I’m going to let this thing play out and not accept the media stuff on this. We don’t know the circumstances surrounding the situation. If you steal from me and I catch you with my stuff you are subject to get whatever punishment I can inflict on you at the time. Think about some things not mentioned in the press. How would someone steal 2 ATV’s from you? It would have to be by force so what if he was robbed of these at gunpoint? A lot of you guys are going to say he should have called the cops then, but I’ll tell you this: That would have cost him his PASS in his neighborhood for life. Many of you won’t understand that aspect to growing up in the hood, and honestly it isn’t intended for everyone to understand. I’ll tell you this much, there are plenty of other players on the team that will act similarly in a similar situation so don’t be so quick to condemn this man. My guess about what happened is this: Sean or somebody close to him was violently robbed of the ATV’s. I’m thinking the attackers were recognizable and recognized as persons from a particular area within the city. After getting the info I think they played it cool and tracked down the information before confirming that it was indeed the individuals and the vehicles in question. Once that was established I think he entered the mindset that these people are about to get what’s coming to them for taking my stuff. The rest we can all read from various media outlets. I am not commending Sean for his actions that night, but I’m not condemning him either. If the courts say Sean should get jail time, then so be it. That’s the price you pay for taking the law in your own hands. One of the reasons that people disrespect athletes and their property is because they believe most of them are too soft to do anything about it until they run up on the Sean Taylor’s, Gary Sheffield’s, and Ray Lewis types. They are blatant reminders to the general public that you can’t just run up on these guys. Sean is a man before he is a Washington Redskin and he protected something he holds close to his manhood by doing what he did. I would feel absolutely different if I were reading a story where Sean was high and decided to run in the middle of the freeway waving a pistol at motorist. That’s not what happened and I’m giving him the benefit of the doubt because ultimately he’ll be the one that pays the price for his actions. I will still be a Sean Taylor fan and 80% of the posters stating how stupid he is today will cheer when he puts T.O. out of the game or knocks Bledsoe into retirement. Also let this be a notice to the barroom tough guys around this board. These guys will hurt you of you disrespect them so don’t let your Miller Lite’s get you into deep doo.

Wow ... exactly what I was thinking. We are so quick to judge those in situations we know nothing about. Its funny how we call the media idiots when they talk bad about the Redskins as an organization. However we choose to believe every word of the small tidbits concerning Taylor. Like kappaluvacee said I'm not condemning Taylor of what he did, but there could be a very good explanation hiding behind all of this. With that said it still was not a smart move anyway you look at it. But it is a decision that Taylor will have to live with.

[dannyboy70]

Taylor's cumulative f/u's far exceed Winslow's.

[kmast000]

taylor all the way

[e16bball]

Originally posted by Taylor 36

Ah, but there are clauses in players contracts as well as under NFL rules and regulations that could absorb or take away most if not all of that cap hit. Though I do not know the specifics of Taylor's contract, being as savvy a business man as Snyder is, I would think their would be some language about money due/owed in the case of felony convictions and/or long term incarcerations.

Well I'm sure that if he gets convicted and is incarcerated for a long period, we will recoup his money. However, since most people who understand how this will play out in court agree that he will not be incarcerated, that is a moot point. I think there are some here who would cut him based solely on his "poor character" which is naive and not in the best interest of the team. Yes, he's an *******. No, we should not cut him. Ray Lewis, if anyone remembers, was involved in a murder. He didn't commit it, but he was involved in some way or another with it. Did the Ravens jump the gun and cut him? Of course not. He is far too talented, and it would have been incredibly detrimental to their team. Same thing applies here. Sean Taylor will be on the field next year, wearing burgundy and gold with whatever the hell number he pleases, and I for one will be cheering him all the way. I cheer for the team before any individuals, and I know that Sean Taylor will make the team better.

[Omega4ce]

As far as the vote, Taylor wins by a mile.

Yet, like others said i would like to wait for more details before judging him for whatever he did.

[red zone]

Shooting incident? What'd I miss? Did Sean shoot someone?

[jbooma]

we should have drafted Roy Williams :doh:

[The Sisko]

I have said before that it seems that Taylor and KWII are in some bizarre race to be named the NFL's biggest headcase. Taylor has one upped KWII in a big way on this one. I think the only way KWII can regain the crown would be to pull a Ray Lewis.

[The Sisko]

Originally posted by kappaluvacee

Taylor did a really stupid thing. There�s no doubt about that, but remember people you are only hearing bits and pieces of the story. I�m going to let this thing play out and not accept the media stuff on this. We don�t know the circumstances surrounding the situation. If you steal from me and I catch you with my stuff you are subject to get whatever punishment I can inflict on you at the time. Think about some things not mentioned in the press. How would someone steal 2 ATV�s from you? It would have to be by force so what if he was robbed of these at gunpoint? A lot of you guys are going to say he should have called the cops then, but I�ll tell you this: That would have cost him his PASS in his neighborhood for life. Many of you won�t understand that aspect to growing up in the hood, and honestly it isn�t intended for everyone to understand. I�ll tell you this much, there are plenty of other players on the team that will act similarly in a similar situation so don�t be so quick to condemn this man. My guess about what happened is this: Sean or somebody close to him was violently robbed of the ATV�s. I�m thinking the attackers were recognizable and recognized as persons from a particular area within the city. After getting the info I think they played it cool and tracked down the information before confirming that it was indeed the individuals and the vehicles in question. Once that was established I think he entered the mindset that these people are about to get what�s coming to them for taking my stuff. The rest we can all read from various media outlets. I am not commending Sean for his actions that night, but I�m not condemning him either. If the courts say Sean should get jail time, then so be it. That�s the price you pay for taking the law in your own hands. One of the reasons that people disrespect athletes and their property is because they believe most of them are too soft to do anything about it until they run up on the Sean Taylor�s, Gary Sheffield�s, and Ray Lewis types. They are blatant reminders to the general public that you can�t just run up on these guys. Sean is a man before he is a Washington Redskin and he protected something he holds close to his manhood by doing what he did. I would feel absolutely different if I were reading a story where Sean was high and decided to run in the middle of the freeway waving a pistol at motorist. That�s not what happened and I�m giving him the benefit of the doubt because ultimately he�ll be the one that pays the price for his actions. I will still be a Sean Taylor fan and 80% of the posters stating how stupid he is today will cheer when he puts T.O. out of the game or knocks Bledsoe into retirement. Also let this be a notice to the barroom tough guys around this board. These guys will hurt you of you disrespect them so don�t let your Miller Lite�s get you into deep doo.

Definitely the dumbest post of the year. Your comments are indicative of why you sir were relegated to pledging kappa.

The whole point of excelling at something to get out of the "Hood" is to not have to put up with all of the things that come with being there. Therefore once one does manage to escape, the need for "Street Cred" goes out the window.

Certainly there's a mindset that comes with growing up in such a neighborhood. However the ability to change that mindset is a large part of adjusting to life in the non-Hood world. Those that are unwilling or unable to make the adjustment often find themselves incarcerated or worse.

If he can't figure out that he's in a different world now, Taylor is doomed to make the same types of mistakes down the road until he either kills someone else, is killed himself, or gets put away for good. For our (the fans) sakes and his own, I'm hoping Taylor proves to be smarter than you are.

[tizzod]

As far as I am concerned, they can both jump off Lover's Leap hand in hand.

[jrockster21]

Originally posted by red zone

Shooting incident? What'd I miss? Did Sean shoot someone?

Hope you're kidding....and if not, I hope your caught up by now....

[75004]

Even in the off season Boonel is causing problems.

[thaBIGRED]

Taylor... but don't wanna judge him too much before knowing so little.

[kappaluvacee]

Originally posted by Yusuf06

Definitely the dumbest post of the year. Your comments are indicative of why you sir were relegated to pledging kappa.

The whole point of excelling at something to get out of the "Hood" is to not have to put up with all of the things that come with being there. Therefore once one does manage to escape, the need for "Street Cred" goes out the window.

Certainly there's a mindset that comes with growing up in such a neighborhood. However the ability to change that mindset is a large part of adjusting to life in the non-Hood world. Those that are unwilling or unable to make the adjustment often find themselves incarcerated or worse.

If he can't figure out that he's in a different world now, Taylor is doomed to make the same types of mistakes down the road until he either kills someone else, is killed himself, or gets put away for good. For our (the fans) sakes and his own, I'm hoping Taylor proves to be smarter than you are.

Actually this topic has nothing to do with my mindset or my choice to pledge Kappa over the over the stooges of A-phi. Now to the crux of your comments. Anyone that has truly grown up in the hood knows that you can leave the hood, but the hood never leaves you. You are correct that everyone should grow with age and maturity, but your accretion that it should happen because he makes millions of dollars and plays professional football is incorrect. Sean should mature because he should be protecting his assets; but he is currently choosing to remain in a place of comfort (his old neighborhood). He can’t be knocked for that, he just has to realize that the same things that threatened to rob him of an athletic career before he became a professional athlete is 3X fold now that he is. You talk about escaping the hood; most people that leave the hood do not reference it as an escape. It’s more of an elevation. Additionally, to be honest, Sean currently and always will care more about what his childhood friends and acquaintances think of him than you. After all, who pays to see who play on Sundays?

[skinsarethebest]

Originally posted by PlayAction

In that draft year, fans were split almost 50:50 between Winslow and Taylor for the Skins. Looks like we would have lost either way.

actually, when you think about it, Taylor is more likely to have committed the crime he did whether as a Skin or as a Brown, since he chose to do his offseason work in Miami -- he made a conscious choice to assault someone -- in his case, there is no element of "chance" or "accident" at work -- it was all his doing

not to raise all those what ifs, but if K2 was a Skin, living in DC, maybe he doesn't go that motorcycle shop in Ohio, have that accident in that parking lot... heck, maybe he doesn't even injure himself in his 2nd pro game

i agree both guys have failed to live up to their potential and the teams' respective expectations, but actually, all that's transpired in the past 2 weeks has certainly NOT made me feel like we necessarily made the right choice by drafting Taylor over Winslow

[SamSneed36]

Not that complex. Winslows out for a year due to stupidity, Taylor looks like he will be out for atleast 3 years. He may have just shot his way out of the NFL. Pile on all the other stupid stuff hes done up to now and its Taylor by a landslide

[The Sisko]

Originally posted by kappaluvacee

Actually this topic has nothing to do with my mindset...

I think your comments supporting the behavior Taylor is accused of have done an excellent job of showing your thug wannabe "mindset".

Originally posted by kappaluvacee

...my choice to pledge Kappa over the over the stooges of A-phi.

I suppose you'd feel the same way even if the Alphas had taken the time to return your phone calls at pledge time.

Originally posted by kappaluvacee

Anyone that has truly grown up in the hood knows that you can leave the hood, but the hood never leaves you. You are correct that everyone should grow with age and maturity, but your accretion that it should happen because he makes millions of dollars and plays professional football is incorrect.

That's just nonsense. I suppose people just can't overcome their upbringing no matter how hard they try? Fact is, it sounds like Taylor did a good job of staying out of trouble before he was drafted so he should be able to do the same afterwards.

BTW, unless you meant something else the word is "assertion" not "accretion".

Originally posted by kappaluvacee

Sean should mature because he should be protecting his assets; but he is currently choosing to remain in a place of comfort (his old neighborhood).

He can�t be knocked for that, he just has to realize that the same things that threatened to rob him of an athletic career before he became a professional athlete is 3X fold now that he is. You talk about escaping the hood; most people that leave the hood do not reference it as an escape. It�s more of an elevation. Additionally, to be honest, Sean currently and always will care more about what his childhood friends and acquaintances think of him than you. After all, who pays to see who play on Sundays?

Taylor clearly has a choice. He can continue to act like a punk headed for jail/death or he can grow up and start trying to act like a man. Part of that will include the realization that getting a fat contract doesn't give you a "get out of jail free" card (pun fully intended). It may also mean that he'll have to give up hanging with his old friends. The same forces from his old neighborhood that you spoke of are still there and are an even greater threat to him now that he's got a few nickels to rub together. Dude would be wise to wake up and smell the joe before it's too late....if it isn't too late already.

[Reaganaut]

Next time Sean:

CALL THE FRIGGIN POLICE

CALL THE POLICE

YOUR DAD IS A POLICEMAN

CALL THE POLICE

[Jethrodsp]

At least Sean will be in a Skins uni this season making plays.

Quote me on that.

[kappaluvacee]

Originally posted by Yusuf06

I think your comments supporting the behavior Taylor is accused of have done an excellent job of showing your thug wannabe "mindset".

I suppose you'd feel the same way even if the Alphas had taken the time to return your phone calls at pledge time.

That's just nonsense. I suppose people just can't overcome their upbringing no matter how hard they try? Fact is, it sounds like Taylor did a good job of staying out of trouble before he was drafted so he should be able to do the same afterwards.

BTW, unless you meant something else the word is "assertion" not "accretion".

Taylor clearly has a choice. He can continue to act like a punk headed for jail/death or he can grow up and start trying to act like a man. Part of that will include the realization that getting a fat contract doesn't give you a "get out of jail free" card (pun fully intended). It may also mean that he'll have to give up hanging with his old friends. The same forces from his old neighborhood that you spoke of are still there and are an even greater threat to him now that he's got a few nickels to rub together. Dude would be wise to wake up and smell the joe before it's too late....if it isn't too late already.

Actually, if you read my post very carefully, I state, "I don't commend Taylor's actions, nor am I condemning them either." - That doesn't sound like a ringing endorsement to me. Just the same, I understand what he might be thinking and where he might be coming from. Some people didn’t get their lunch-money taken and cried about it. Some people are cut from a different cloth, when they got their lunch-money taken they met the bully after school to get it back plus interest. As to your comments about not being able to abandon your upbringing, no one should want to abandon it no matter how bad it may have been. There may be things you would not like to further, but you still don't abandon it because those are the things that helped you become the person you are today. As I stated earlier, some things about the 'hood aren't intended for everyone to understand, just accept that you may be one of those persons. That's not a knock; consider it similar to the menu of the "last Supper." Sean will be fine once he embraces the fact that the hood isn't the only place in the world to exist. When he realizes that, he will have to learn the various different codes that go along with existing in other places. Currently he does not accept the codes of existing in other environments. When this situation is all said and done, Sean won't serve jail time and will probably serve a 4 game suspension for conduct detrimental to the team. When he realizes he just pissed away the contract he's been trying to get and 4 games worth of salary to boot, he'll have additional time to "mature" in the professional capacity.

You call him a punk from your desk chair; you wouldn't call him that face to face or beyond your chair so stop frontin'. As to Sean's clean history before being drafted, Sean had a history of minor incidents at U of M that have been categorized as “maturity issues” that the Redskins stated were not substantial enough to prevent his drafting. As to the back and forth Kappa vs. Alpha barbs, most of the people on this board don't understand where you're coming from with that. We can continue those exchanges via PM so we can really get some stuff said....:laugh: - Before I abandon it though, we all know Alpha doesn't have enough clout on any yard to turn anyone down. Matter a fact, they call on potentials like patrons to the Jerry Lewis Telethon. Kappa doesn't need to recruit, we turn the heat up and the cream always rises to the top. Our waiting list speaks for itself. The NUPES have no problem sustaining membership.

I appreciate the proofreading of my post, I suggest you spend equal time reading the full post and not taking excerpts out of context. I also suggest you respect other's opinion, that's why we all post. I don't post with the hopes of gaining your agreement of my position. I post my opinion just as the next man/woman posts theirs.