LaRonDontLikeUgly Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 Just re-watched the play in slo-mo (granted, on twitter- so not great resolution) and here's my take: Doct makes a great adjustment and initial catch... If the defender's hand hadn't punched him directly in the facemask as he was going down, Josh catches it. I also don't see any grabbing of the mask at all. (Lucky play by the DB who was just flailing at the ball in desperation.) I think it was just a jarring-split-second-physical-motion that threw him off as he hit the turf. Disappointing outcome, but I would like to see Doctson starting over Pryor after the bye. Dude is a natural receiver and perhaps the 'shakeup' needed to get #11 on track. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyHolt Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 1 hour ago, LaRonDontLikeUgly said: Just re-watched the play in slo-mo (granted, on twitter- so not great resolution) and here's my take: Doct makes a great adjustment and initial catch... If the defender's hand hadn't punched him directly in the facemask as he was going down, Josh catches it. I also don't see any grabbing of the mask at all. (Lucky play by the DB who was just flailing at the ball in desperation.) I think it was just a jarring-split-second-physical-motion that threw him off as he hit the turf. Disappointing outcome, but I would like to see Doctson starting over Pryor after the bye. Dude is a natural receiver and perhaps the 'shakeup' needed to get #11 on track. Good take. I agree. Initially I too saw it as a club to the head, more than his fingers inside his mask raking his eyes, make old WWWF fans rejoice. Had he been viciously face masked? We may have seen him rubbing his eyes, complaining to the ref etc. Players always complain about a proper face mask. I don't necessarily want him to start per se, but want him game planned around, for a drive. Lets see what he is made of. He may well break but we need to see that too, to ever get past it. Doug needs to decide, can this guy hold up enough to help us make the playoffs. All signs point to us being in the hunt. If he can't hold up from typical starting WR duties, lets find out now so we can make a trade, call up Harris from AAA, snatch back Hazel, start game planning elsewhere, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjfootballer Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 I've been thinking about when they changed the rule that says you have to maintain the catch all the way through. Dumb rule. Here's why: 1) Say a RB is carrying the ball and his elbow slams the turf causing a fumble. They "review" whether or not the ball carrier maintained control before his elbow hits the turf. Why can't they "review" that the receiver had control of the ball when the his arm/ball hits the ground? It's pretty much the same thing. 2) They still have the rule that the ground can't cause a fumble. Isn't that what happened here? He had control and then when his arm "hit the ground" he lost it. 3) Technically in these situations, he "broke the plane" of the endzone. I've seen guys reach out (with control), break the plane and then slam down to the turf and fumble the ball. To me Doctson (and other receivers I've seen) had control, broke the plane and the ground caused the ball to jar loose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaRonDontLikeUgly Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 32 minutes ago, RandyHolt said: Good take. I agree. Initially I too saw it as a club to the head, more than his fingers inside his mask raking his eyes, make old WWWF fans rejoice. Had he been viciously face masked? We may have seen him rubbing his eyes, complaining to the ref etc. Players always complain about a proper face mask. I don't necessarily want him to start per se, but want him game planned around, for a drive. Lets see what he is made of. He may well break but we need to see that too, to ever get past it. Doug needs to decide, can this guy hold up enough to help us make the playoffs. All signs point to us being in the hunt. If he can't hold up from typical starting WR duties, lets find out now so we can make a trade, call up Harris from AAA, snatch back Hazel, start game planning elsewhere, etc. The WWF eye-rake is why I never lost a schoolyard fight from '90-'97... Eventually, I just started carrying around a bottle of Windex in my backpack. Qssssssppptttttt!! BOOOOM!! Gimme those Pogs! Here's the thing about Pryor vs. Docston for me: I was the biggest Pryor fanboy over the summer... Watched all his workout vids, training camp catches, etc and told the ANYONE who would listen how he would be a Top 5 WR this year. I didn't expect the poor routes, drops, and Todd Pinkston-like body control over the middle. The great thing about Pryor though is that he wants to be great. And I think he will be. But- we handed him the WR1 job based on one decent season with a horrible team that threw him the ball A LOT. Docston has been playing the position longer and was basically one acrobatic catch away from being the one all the pundants talked about this week. I also believe that if Pryor got replaced--- he's the type of man that would work even harder to that spot back and step his game up. Would love to #18 early and often against the Niners! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyHolt Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 Good stuff @pjfootballer I often wondered about those same things and simply gave up a while back. There is no consistency. I like the old 2 feet down - keep it simple. A knee = 2 feet. He has to make a football move... isn't every move we see out there, a football move? We see receivers now take 3 or more steps and fumble, yet they call it incomplete. Mind boggling. It's like turnovers are frowned upon. One of my favs is a player can catch the ball with clear possession - two feet, run out of bounds and fall down, lose the ball as they get tripped by the head coach, and they call it an incomplete. He didn't complete the catch or whatever stupid illogical terminology they use. Pinky Pinkston! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyHolt Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 About Pryor alligator short arming pinking it up... I for one don't think he pulled up, until he had already dropped it. If true, at that point, why not pull up. We need him. Yeah the fear was likely there, it's likely there for any newish WR being led too much on a slant at Mike. Yes Kirk led him too much. That is not the optimal spot for the ball on a slant. I would like to see Kirk run that route and be led that much. Actually, no I wouldn't. But you get my point. Pryor was a QB not too long ago. Part of football is staying healthy. In general, guys on 1 year contracts are playing for their next contract. While we may love the 1 year contract because we are not tied to a specific player, know that players are playing for their next contract as well and to do that, need to be healthy. Admittedly, a guy on a fat contract has little reason to risk life or limb as well. So we can't win heh. The timing is just off which contributed to the drop, more than fear. Kirk may be throwing it harder under live fire, than in practice. Pryor too late out of his break. Who knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skins island connection Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 4 hours ago, pjfootballer said: I've been thinking about when they changed the rule that says you have to maintain the catch all the way through. Dumb rule. Here's why: 1) Say a RB is carrying the ball and his elbow slams the turf causing a fumble. They "review" whether or not the ball carrier maintained control before his elbow hits the turf. Why can't they "review" that the receiver had control of the ball when the his arm/ball hits the ground? It's pretty much the same thing. 2) They still have the rule that the ground can't cause a fumble. Isn't that what happened here? He had control and then when his arm "hit the ground" he lost it. 3) Technically in these situations, he "broke the plane" of the endzone. I've seen guys reach out (with control), break the plane and then slam down to the turf and fumble the ball. To me Doctson (and other receivers I've seen) had control, broke the plane and the ground caused the ball to jar loose. Thats the NFL for ya. I don't care for the 'force out' rule that was trashed. If a player is close to the sidelines, jumps and catches the ball, then a defender pushes him out of bounds, in the past it was ruled a catch and force out; now its simply out of bounds. Now, the RB scenario, IMO, no offense, but he gains possession from the QB handing it to him, runs and gets tackled where his elbow hits the ground and its ruled down by contact. I agree with that call. A WR, making a catch in the endzone, comes down, hits the ground and the ball squirts out or touches the ground and moves while in his control doesn't seem like a true catch. If he catches it at the 2, turns and stretches the ball over the goal line, goes down and the ball comes out , that would be a TD, because his possession took place outside of the endzone, and a football move was made to reach over the line. Breaking the plane and acquiring possession in the endzone are 2 different things. Thats why they say when a catch is made in the endzone, a player must maintain possession throughout the catch; absolute control has to be made. I look back at Calvin Johnson's nullified catch that made headlines is a good example of the rule being interpreted wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BatteredFanSyndrome Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 3 hours ago, RandyHolt said: About Pryor alligator short arming pinking it up... I for one don't think he pulled up, until he had already dropped it. If true, at that point, why not pull up. We need him. Yeah the fear was likely there, it's likely there for any newish WR being led too much on a slant at Mike. Yes Kirk led him too much. That is not the optimal spot for the ball on a slant. I would like to see Kirk run that route and be led that much. Actually, no I wouldn't. But you get my point. Pryor was a QB not too long ago. Part of football is staying healthy. In general, guys on 1 year contracts are playing for their next contract. While we may love the 1 year contract because we are not tied to a specific player, know that players are playing for their next contract as well and to do that, need to be healthy. Admittedly, a guy on a fat contract has little reason to risk life or limb as well. So we can't win heh. The timing is just off which contributed to the drop, more than fear. Kirk may be throwing it harder under live fire, than in practice. Pryor too late out of his break. Who knows. I'm not following on this. The one I recall was a third down that he appeared to not even get a hand on because he didn't reach. Perhaps the ball could have been placed better, but it's freaking 3rd down - you catch that ball. Particularly when you are a guy on a prove it deal that hasn't proved anything. I'm sure the GMs viewing his tape already full of drops and rounded routes aren't marking that play down as a positive because he preserved his health. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyHolt Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 17 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said: I'm not following on this. The one I recall was a third down that he appeared to not even get a hand on because he didn't reach. Perhaps the ball could have been placed better, but it's freaking 3rd down - you catch that ball. Particularly when you are a guy on a prove it deal that hasn't proved anything. I'm sure the GMs viewing his tape already full of drops and rounded routes aren't marking that play down as a positive because he preserved his health. The one I remember he got 2 hands on the ball, arms fully outstretched. TRex was not in the building. But its not just the arms, it's pulling up - both affectionately referred to as alligator arms. Someone post a gif so we can micro-analyze it! But we don't know the play call. Was he supposed to be hit in stride at full speed, or stop and Kirk throwing to a spot. I don't recall a guy immediately about to take his head off, but that doesn't really matter in terms of possible fears going over the middle. Even if he had fears, would anyone blame him? He has been doing this 1.5 years now. He is THE greenest 28 year old WR in the league. Maybe ever. If he completely detests physical contact, I think we'd have known before we acquired him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreek1973 Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 Guys I have a major issue here understanding what is a TD catch and what is not. Maybe even the mods will like to make this its own thread because honestly since Monday night I have been thinking about this and I feel we got robbed. TOTALY. So last year GB against us scored a TD after an apparent drop by Jordy Nelson after a great hit by Norman. In fact I have played this video and dare I say Nelson had the ball for less time that Doctson got the ball and the crazy thing is the ground caused him to lose the ball not a player like Jordie's TD and we all know the ground can't cause a fumble. here is the video of that "TD" by Nelson https://youtu.be/iirB0vkmYpk?t=58 Here is a video of Doctson catching this ball, having way more control than Nelson, and the defender having NOTHING to do with dislodging the ball. What is going on with this league. What excatly are we watching? I am pissed either both of this plays are incomplete passes or both are TDs can't be anything else. In otherwords we got robbed. What the hell is it NFL? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dont Taze Me Bro Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 I don't blame Doc for losing the game. If it was an easy catch, right into his hands, and he drops it (think Welker drop in the SB) or showing off running into the end zone not protecting the ball and a defender slaps it out (think DJax with Eagles) then sure, I'd be a lot more ticked off than I was about the outcome of the game. But the catch itself, positioning, face mask that wasn't called (should be more pissed about that than the incomplete pass imo), I can't be mad at Doc or claim he cost us the game. Losing Norman shifted all the momentum to KC, P. Smith penalties, etc. contributed to not holding on and winning a tough ballgame in one of the toughest places to play in the NFL while on the road. I'm willing to bet that if Josh doesn't get hurt, we win the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyHolt Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 Nice work @TheGreek1973It's funny Jordy was mad that he dropped it. If he caught that same pass running out of bounds and then 3 steps later dropped it, it would be incomplete. The league has attempted to redefine what a catch is, yet has made it more confusing than ever. We literally have no idea what is going to be called on any given play. Even conclusive replays are little more than a prayer that it will be called correctly. I guess since Jordy didn't attempt a football move, that it didn't matter that he didn't. If you are flat footed you are good to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sempre_victrix Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 Personally, I’d rather not see shallow crosses out of Pryor. He’ll get killed with his frame. I’d rather see him running routes well beyond the LBs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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