mcsluggo Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 I am a bit surprised that there has been no chatter here about this issue, at all. It is a big deal to to the Obama-bots, and was immediately pilloried by Congressional GOP-bots. http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/13/world/asia/climate-change-china-xi-jinping-obama-apec.html?_r=0 New York Times ASIA PACIFIC China’s Climate Change Plan Raises Questions By EDWARD WONG NOV. 12, 2014 BEIJING — When the presidents of China and the United States pledged on Wednesday to reduce or limit carbon dioxide emissions, analysts and policy advisers said, the two leaders sent an important signal: that the world’s largest economies were willing to work together on climate change. “This is a very serious international commitment between the two heavy hitters,” said Li Shuo, who researches climate and coal policy for Greenpeace East Asia. Still, many questions surround China’s plans, which President Xi Jinpingannounced in Beijing alongside President Obama after months of negotiations. In essence, experts asked, do the pledges go far enough, and how will China achieve them? <<more at link>> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 The one thing that just jumped off the page, to me was that the deal seems to say:1) The US will have achieved it's goal of cutting carbon emissions, by 2025.2) China promises that it will start cutting emissions in 2030. In short, we must deliver our promise before they will start working on theirs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 big on promises and money to the Chinese, short on results If I'm China I'm happy with it add reminds me of what Google has done with alt energy, turn from research funding to implementing govt subsidized power generation and profiting from mandates and grants/loans while not having a significant impact on the supposed problem ....Go Green Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hersh Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 The one thing that just jumped off the page, to me was that the deal seems to say: 1) The US will have achieved it's goal of cutting carbon emissions, by 2025. 2) China promises that it will start cutting emissions in 2030. In short, we must deliver our promise before they will start working on theirs. I don't mind this too much cause I'm a big believer that we need to take care of our backyard before telling others to do as we do or want them to do. Plus, with China, you have to start somewhere. The fact that they are acknowledging it publically is a big deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 So what do we get out of the deal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 China is investing an absolute boatload of money into cleaner energy. The Chinese leadership understand the hole that they have dug for themselves, but at the same time, they are terrified of slowing their economic growth because that is what protects them from social unrest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Excuses Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 I don't understand how Chinese citizens are not revolting at the absolute dump that is their breathing air. My girlfriend visited China in 2012. The stories she tells me of the air quality and what it did to her respiratory system were hard to believe. The Chinese government is very secretive about this stuff but I wonder if there is a massive nation wide health crisis on the way. But yeah lets shut down the EPA. /RickPerry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 So what do we get out of the deal? Maybe less global climate change? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 So what do we get out of the deal? a cheaper research bill since we are outsourcing it. a higher power bill wanna guess which one is higher? maybe the Chinese are smarter anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 I don't understand how Chinese citizens are not revolting at the absolute dump that is their breathing air. Because about half a billion of them have been pulled out of abject poverty in the past 25 years, and millions have become middle class or even wealthy, and that was much more important to them at the time than the environmental consequences. Now they are starting to think about it because of how bad it has gotten. That's the way people are - they react rather than plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 I don't understand how Chinese citizens are not revolting at the absolute dump that is their breathing air. My girlfriend visited China in 2012. The stories she tells me of the air quality and what it did to her respiratory system were hard to believe. The Chinese government is very secretive about this stuff but I wonder if there is a massive nation wide health crisis on the way. But yeah lets shut down the EPA. /RickPerry if ya think the air is bad ya should try the water our air and water are cleaner without the EPA uncompromisable regs ....and making money Flex permitting works....as does our AG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABQCOWBOY Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 The one thing that just jumped off the page, to me was that the deal seems to say: 1) The US will have achieved it's goal of cutting carbon emissions, by 2025. 2) China promises that it will start cutting emissions in 2030. In short, we must deliver our promise before they will start working on theirs. If they ever start, which we all know is unlikely if it does not represent a significant advantage to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 Maybe less global climate change? Haha good one. No seriously, what do we get? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcsluggo Posted November 20, 2014 Author Share Posted November 20, 2014 What do the Chinese get? THis was a bilateral agreement by the two largest carbon producers to jointly demonstrate a leadership position on the issue. It puts lots of pressure on Brazil and India (primarily, but other emerging markets as well) who had previously marched shoulder to shoulder with Chinese leadership on the message that current rich world economies got rich by churning out greenhouse gasses and now that they are already industrialized (or even arguably post-industrial) they can AFFORD to make climate change a focus. The BRICs had argued that they should be exempt from having to make ANY targets for reductions, until they succeeded at economically catching up with the west. China (and the US) just abruptly changed that dialogue. the fact that China has set a target for the future is huge (and it HAS to be a future target, you can not turn this sort of thing around quickly, short of economic collapse--- the US has already started making progress in this area, so its targets from this announcement were only incremental tightening on a nearer-term horizon) IN order to reach these targets, China has committed to roughly 40% of its power from carbon neutral sources by the year 2035. That involves them adding more carbon neutral power generation than the entire US grid. This is huge. Previously they had been adding africa's total energy grid capacity EVERY YEAR in new coal powered plants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 our air and water are cleaner without the EPA uncompromisable regs ....and making money Boy, now there's a terrific slogan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 Boy, now there's a terrific slogan more than a slogan.....letting the perfect be the enemy of the good is a poor path and one that simply outsources and exacerbates the problems. on the plus side they can institute new tech faster there since they don't deal with EPA and other govt idiots.....maybe they can even get clean coal going Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 What do the Chinese get? THis was a bilateral agreement by the two largest carbon producers to jointly demonstrate a leadership position on the issue. It puts lots of pressure on Brazil and India (primarily, but other emerging markets as well) who had previously marched shoulder to shoulder with Chinese leadership on the message that current rich world economies got rich by churning out greenhouse gasses and now that they are already industrialized (or even arguably post-industrial) they can AFFORD to make climate change a focus. The BRICs had argued that they should be exempt from having to make ANY targets for reductions, until they succeeded at economically catching up with the west. China (and the US) just abruptly changed that dialogue. the fact that China has set a target for the future is huge (and it HAS to be a future target, you can not turn this sort of thing around quickly, short of economic collapse--- the US has already started making progress in this area, so its targets from this announcement were only incremental tightening on a nearer-term horizon) IN order to reach these targets, China has committed to roughly 40% of its power from carbon neutral sources by the year 2035. That involves them adding more carbon neutral power generation than the entire US grid. This is huge. Previously they had been adding africa's total energy grid capacity EVERY YEAR in new coal powered plants. What real pressure does this put on India Russia and Brazil? Serious question Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nonniey Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 The one thing that just jumped off the page, to me was that the deal seems to say: 1) The US will have achieved it's goal of cutting carbon emissions, by 2025. 2) China promises that it will start cutting emissions in 2030. In short, we must deliver our promise before they will start working on theirs. Larry is that you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcsluggo Posted November 21, 2014 Author Share Posted November 21, 2014 What real pressure does this put on India Russia and Brazil? Serious question China and South Africa have now both committed to implementing huge green energy, carbon reducing policies. It leaves India and Brazil with less and less of a fig leaf to hide behind as they loudly moan that they can't be part of any global reduction plan without western economies directly compensating them for their reductions (which obviously ain't gonna happen). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 China and South Africa have now both committed to implementing huge green energy, carbon reducing policies. It leaves India and Brazil with less and less of a fig leaf to hide behind as they loudly moan that they can't be part of any global reduction plan without western economies directly compensating them for their reductions (which obviously ain't gonna happen).So if I'm India, I just keep going. What will they do? I have 1 billion people who will work for $1 per day (half of whom have degrees in engineering), a hard line fiber optic cable between us and North America, low taxes, an environmental Wild West, and deep water portsI think if I'm India, I'm good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcsluggo Posted November 21, 2014 Author Share Posted November 21, 2014 that actually seems to pretty well describes the internal picture i carry in my head of you... cranky and holed up in a unabomber shack with uneven infrastructure but an awesome internet connection as you cackle and thumb your nose at polite/diplomatic society ... so i guess your right... diplomatic pressure ain't moving any grumpy old men out of their una-shack, as long as they have free access to the country-level equivalent to internet porn (seriously... it has proven pretty difficult to pressure the Indians through diplomacy on any number of issues.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.