What is the function of the government?

This question has been on my mind a lot lately.

I believe a lot of the tension between liberals and conservatives stems from differing opinions on what the role of the government actually is. I'm also finding myself at a crossroads regarding this subject and I want to see what you guys have to say on the matter.

Also, what are the differing responsibilities of state and federal governments, if any?

1. To promote equality of opportunity, among both citizens and businesses. But especially citizens.

2. To provide an effective infrastructure for the country (including national defense). Essentially creating an environment where people and business can thrive.

3. To provide a humanitarian safety net for citizens that cannot currently care for themselves.

I think most everything can fit into one of those categories.

Edit- I don't see any difference between state and federal responsibilities in the nature of govt, but I do in implementation. I find that the state level government is antiquated at this point in history. I feel that state responsibilities have been gradually eroded over the past century+, and I think it will continue to happen (justifiably).

Well many believe the constitution was to be the definition of what "our" government was. Again many will contest that it's supposed to be a living breathing document. However it's authors feared big government and making it "living and breathing" would allow the government the power to live and breath the constitution right into oblivion which in my opinion, it has. I know what my constitution says my government should be. But I don't know what the hell we have now is. Not trying to hate on Obama or liberals or republicans. I fear our government stepped on a slippery slope a decade ago and has been out of control ever since.

Fundamentally, to protect the little guy from the bully.

Whether that bully be a foreign nation, a criminal, or an entity with greater power (like a polluting corporation or a company hiring children and putting them in unsafe conditions)

The reason we have a government is to keep the pack healthy and strong.

Well the original purpose of government going waayyy back was probably simply to create and enforce laws and act as a 3rd party in disputes to cut down on vigilante justice in society. But obviously we've come a long way from there.......

1. To promote equality of opportunity, among both citizens and businesses. But especially citizens.

2. To provide an effective infrastructure for the country (including national defense). Essentially creating an environment where people and business can thrive.

3. To provide a humanitarian safety net for citizens that cannot currently care for themselves.

I think most everything can fit into one of those categories.

#3 was not in the constitution or bill of rights. Our government was never meant to be as big as it is. Government was to be impersonal, not to be involved with the day to day of its citizenry. It protected it's borders, created and enforced laws.. We didn't even have an income tax until 1913(16th Amendment I believe). Up until then the country was run on tariffs. At one point it was ruled unconstitutional by the Supreme Court. If our government was meant to be big enough to support its (and other country's) citizenry we'd of had to of had an income tax at the very beginning.

Point being, the government was never meant to take financial care of it's citizens

In a nutshell, the intent with the signing of the Constitution was to protect private property rights. Of course, the Constitution isn't even a legally binding contract (See Lysander Spooner on this), so it failed to do so almost immediately.

#3 was not in the constitution or bill of rights. Our government was never meant to be as big as it is. Government was to be impersonal, not to be involved with the day to day of its citizenry. It protected it's borders, created and enforced laws.. We didn't even have an income tax until 1913(16th Amendment I believe). Up until then the country was run on tariffs. At one point it was ruled unconstitutional by the Supreme Court. If our government was meant to be big enough to support its (

Point being, the government was never meant to take financial care of it's citizens

What worked for 1776 does not necessarily work for 2012. We now have the means, and we absolutely have the justification.

Edit- I don't see any difference between state and federal responsibilities in the nature of govt, but I do in implementation. I find that the state level government is antiquated at this point in history. I feel that state responsibilities have been gradually eroded over the past century+, and I think it will continue to happen (justifiably).

The Republic allows for differences that a single govt does not, there is value in individuality and local control

The Republic allows for differences that a single govt does not, there is value in individuality and local control

If our federal govt worked properly, and effectively, the differences would be represented at the federal level.

1. To promote equality of opportunity, among both citizens and businesses. But especially citizens.

2. To provide an effective infrastructure for the country (including national defense). Essentially creating an environment where people and business can thrive.

3. To provide a humanitarian safety net for citizens that cannot currently care for themselves.

I think most everything can fit into one of those categories.

Edit- I don't see any difference between state and federal responsibilities in the nature of govt, but I do in implementation. I find that the state level government is antiquated at this point in history. I feel that state responsibilities have been gradually eroded over the past century+, and I think it will continue to happen (justifiably).

Everything but the last one in my opinion.

Federal should focus on defense and overall continental infrastructure. States should focus on the smaller individual type rules that govern their specific people: gambling, marriage, etc.

Gov't should not be the people's safety net.

Then what should? There are a lot of people that legitimately need some sort of help.

Families, charities, private companies, and personal accountability.

Everything but the last one in my opinion.

Gov't should not be the people's safety net.

Then what should? There are a lot of people that legitimately need some sort of help.

Then what should? There are a lot of people that legitimately need some sort of help.

Families, charities, private companies, and personal accountability.

Families, charities, private companies, and personal accountability.

Got it. So people who can't help themselves should either:

Grow a pair and make it work somehow

Ask their families for help (since they obviously have families that CAN help)

Ask private companies to give them food, medicine, etc (since said companies have a huge incentive to do so)

Hope there are enough charitable donations that year to let them eat (works great in a recession)

If our federal govt worked properly, and effectively, the differences would be represented at the federal level.

No govt works properly...and the further removed from the populace,the worse they do

No govt works properly...and the further removed from the populace,the worse they do

I can't say I disagree with this. Just wanted to point out that if the federal level were less about partisanship and more about compromises to get stuff done, the result would be more accurate representation of the populace as a whole.

I can't say I disagree with this. Just wanted to point out that if the federal level were less about partisanship and more about compromises to get stuff done, the result would be more accurate representation of the populace as a whole.

Right now, the purpose of government is the accumulation of power. Not what most of us want or believe in, I hope, but that's functionally what it was about. During Bush's last two years, the Dems sat on their hands watching things go wrong hoping it would buy them the Presidency. They really only acted when it was obvious that things were much much worse than anyone thought.

Similarly, the Republicans nearly perfected the art of poisonous obstructionism over the past four years.

I think somebody wrote that down somewhere........

http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html

It has been thus for ages Bur....I blame Lincoln

power corrupts

It has been thus for ages Bur....I blame Lincoln

power corrupts

I cynically think it's worse today... we used to be rancorous in public, but roll up our sleeves and get deals done. These days, they don't care how badly they harm the nation if they think it benefits the party.... especially, on the R side. The Dems would be just as bad, but they don't have quite the guts or spine and cave more often.

One reason I think it is worse is that this go around for the first time in our history our bond rating was lowered not because of the economy, but because according to Moody's they distrusted the government's ability to work together to come up with a resolution.

I think it all began to fall apart with the witch hunt that began with White Water and somehow ended with a blue dress. The Dems took it over and tried their best to be rotten. The Republicans then tried to one up the Dems rotteness. Ultimately though, I think government is in a worse frame of mind than it has been through most of its history.

you .....cynical?

To help with dating.

I could delve into this really deep, and I had like 3 paragraphs before I decided to erase that stuff and bottom line it.

Function of any government (dictatorship, democracy, theocracy, whathaveyouocracy):

- Take us out of the state of nature (nasty, brutish, short, and all that stuff)

Further basic function of representative government (it's important to make that distinction):

- Implement will of the majority (majority of course defines rights and the like)

Nowadays we can add "protect the rights of minorities," but for a long time we couldn't.

I think the vast majority of the debates about function of government today ultimately end up becoming a battle of personal preference between the majority and minority. If the majority wants something badly enough, sooner or later it's going to get it, that's the nature of representative governments.

Now, things like indirect election, court systems, gerrymandering, special interests, executive powers outside of public control, etc. etc. gum things up, sometimes for the better, sometimes for the worse, but even so, the natural momentum of policy is almost always towards the majority view in the long run. Of course, the majority can change its mind too.

Anyways, for the purposes of this thread, the function of government is to do what the majority wants while protecting the rights of the minority.

---------- Post added November-19th-2012 at 01:52 AM ----------

To help with dating.

So...is there like a sign up sheet? And please don't tell me it was on some page on my tax return.

Got it. So people who can't help themselves should either:

Grow a pair and make it work somehow

Ask their families for help (since they obviously have families that CAN help)

Ask private companies to give them food, medicine, etc (since said companies have a huge incentive to do so)

Hope there are enough charitable donations that year to let them eat (works great in a recession)

i would prefer the way you outlined it. i think it would spark a culture change of more accountability knowing that the gov't is not responsible for you. we would be left with the people who need help the most actually getting help. i would be inclined to donate more money in that scenario as well instead of it being demanded by the gov't.

also, some churches have and continue to play a role in helping those who cant help themselves.