Offensive questions

Just wondering.... where we are at this point in the season and with our Offensive production on the decline is it safe to say the Offense we have in place has reached its limit. The talking heads have all praised Shanny for "Putting an offense in place that is geared towards RG3's strengths" but it seems that defenses have made the adjustments to really limit us over the past few weeks.

Is it time to focus on a more traditional NFL offensive scheme that allows RG3 to grow as a pocket passer and limit his risk of taking big hits. He has the ability and the talent to be a top elite NFL passer but I think the scheme he is in now is limiting his production as well as possibly stunting his growth as a NFL passer. Knowing this kid and pass the ball 60 yards down the field and put it on a dime its really frustrating seeing so many short yardage routes and screens.

Honestly, I expected offensive production to go up and down this year.

They were doing some new stuff, the rest of the league sees the tapes and adjusts.

Hopefully, they'll adjust back, and production will go back up (some).

It might not even be next week, but if we aren't any better of the course of the year, I'll be worried.

i think we'll start to come out in my pro sets the next 7 weeks, especially if Garcon comes back. the pistol wishbone limits the offense too much. almost every time it's 2 receivers going out, then one of the backs goes out of the backfield after he is beat on his block. also the read option pass is pretty easy to predict. all the LBs have to do is stay at home and cover the inside slant and RG3 won't have any other option besides to throw it away. it's nice to use once in a while, but when it's the main thing in your offense, it will eventually be countered which is has been. I think Garcon being injured changed everything about our offense. I mean, we didn't really see any of this option read, wish bone, etc in the Saints game.

But now it's time to see what RG3 can do under center.

The 1950s Nebraska offense has been figured out. We need to start using RG3 like a real NFL QB and not like Tim Tebow or Pat White.

The 1950s Nebraska offense has been figured out. We need to start using RG3 like a real NFL QB and not like Tim Tebow or Pat White.

I totally agree we need to start dialling back on some of the option packages from tight sets and expand the game plans to include more WCO 3-5-7 drop passing. I think this is important to help develop RGIII for next year. However I am not so sure that opposing defences have figured us out so much as we keep shooting ourselves in the foot with dropped passes, holding calls and procedure penalties.

I am sure we wil spend the next week self scouting ourselves and looking at what we need to do to move the offense forwards.

I don't think this offense has been figured out. Sub-optimal? Sure. Figured out? Nope, not by a longshot.

It just needs to expand...

I hate to keep beating the dead horse but damn, just let the man drop back and pass.

Balance is key IMO.

Oh and our guys have to block (Royster, Polumbus, etc) and the receivers have to make plays.

I just think the offense is going through a rough patch execution wise

I think the biggest problem is the lack of Garcon and Davis on the field. Morris not in rotation with Hightower or Helu. Some will say that's making excuses for the coaching staff, but I don't think it is.

I think it's reality.

I think our offense is creating opportunities and our players aren't capitalizing. We need to add a player that can do something with the option plays and make something happen on screen passes. The short passing element to our offense is completely ineffective and it's putting us in 3rd and long way to often. That absence is killing our drives.

I don't understand why we aren't simply running the Texans' offense? RGIII is more accurate than Schaub and would be a nightmare on bootlegs. We can zone block just as well as them. We don't have the weapons on the outside that they do, but...whatever. I don't understand why we keep running this gimmicky college offense.

PS

I like some of the concepts from college. I like the pistol for example. I think you can add some of those elements and make a pro offense better. I just don't think you can consistently run Baylor's offense in the NLF and not get someone get killed.

I think our offense is creating opportunities and our players aren't capitalizing. We need to add a player that can do something with the option plays and make something happen on screen passes. The short passing element to our offense is completely ineffective and it's putting us in 3rd and long way to often. That absence is killing our drives.

we are still moving the ball pretty well. we just aren't scoring touchdowns like we did at the start of the season.

if anything, we need to rethink are redzone play-calling.

Does your mother have pink nipples or brown?

Oh... i misunderstood "offensive questions".. my mistake.

~Bang

I don't understand why we aren't simply running the Texans' offense? RGIII is more accurate than Schaub and would be a nightmare on bootlegs. We can zone block just as well as them. We don't have the weapons on the outside that they do' date=' but...whatever. I don't understand why we keep running this gimmicky college offense.

PS

I like some of the concepts from college. I like the pistol for example. I think you can add some of those elements and make a pro offense better. I just don't think you can consistently run Baylor's offense in the NLF and not get someone get killed.[/quote']Imo the key differences between Houston and us are: (a) the quality of their RBs Foster and Tate are both better then Morris ( their OL is better across the board (

And kinda use the Houston running game except we do it from Pistol

I wish we were actually running the Baylor offense. They're offense actually spread it out and attacks downfield and passed to the perimeter and they didn't run triple option, they didn't use much Pistol formation. Baylor offense was a shotgun Spread formation 'Air Raid' offense with zone read option.

In short if we're running Baylor's offense we better take a closer look.

I think the biggest problem is the lack of Garcon and Davis on the field. Morris not in rotation with Hightower or Helu. Some will say that's making excuses for the coaching staff, but I don't think it is.

I think it's reality.

BINGO! The offense is missing its top two receivers, two guys who most thought would battle for the RB spot (granted Morris has been a phenom, but he's not the home run threat or 3rd down back Helu is,) and a guy (Brown) many in the organization thought would be their starting RT. No wonder they're struggling.

That said, I too would like to see them mix their sets up more, kept griping to the wife yesterday that you can't use the "loaded pistol" as your base formation. Just not enough diversity from that set. Would love to see some power running early out of more pro sets, then play action into 5 and 7 step drops, and look to attack downfield. hopefully we'll see more diversity following the bye. Especially if the #1 WR gets back on the field.

I don't understand why we aren't simply running the Texans' offense? .

Just to builld on this.. Kubiak started much in the same position Shanny did when taking over here.

Little talent, bad past moves.. no QB.. a team that needed everything.

and it's taken them a while to get to the point where they are now, and arguably, they've had better talent along the way.

Now if the people in Houston had the same patience level as we display here, where would they be?

Things take time.

~Bang

"figured out" is a bit of a misnomer to me. Rather its irrelevant. Look at some of the great offenses in the league, Houston, New Orleans, New England, they've been "figured out", the difference is that they have 1. continuity and 2. talent to beat opposing defenses as they make plays.

"figured out" is a bit of a misnomer to me. Rather its irrelevant. Look at some of the great offenses in the league, Houston, New Orleans, New England, they've been "figured out", the difference is that they have 1. continuity and 2. talent to beat opposing defenses as they make plays.

This is a HUGE key.

And it can only be accomplished with patience.

People want to know how some teams manage to draft so well and consistently pull in players who contribute immediately,, and it's because their continuity allows them to scout better. The Texans now have that continuity, they can scout guys for what they KNOW they can do in their system, because they know the system will be intact.

the importance of this cannot be understated.

~Bang

Just to builld on this.. Kubiak started much in the same position Shanny did when taking over here.

Little talent, bad past moves.. no QB.. a team that needed everything.

and it's taken them a while to get to the point where they are now, and arguably, they've had better talent along the way.

Now if the people in Houston had the same patience level as we display here, where would they be?

Things take time.

~Bang

People here were staggered when Kubiak got a sixth year. And to be honest, at this point, the conquering hero in Houston is Wade Phillips. Kubiak seemed to have no idea what to do on defense for years. Bum's son came in and suddenly, they are dominant on that side of the ball and JJ Watt is going to make the Hall of Fame. Like next week. Seriously, he is playing the better on defense than anyone has ever played on defense.

Houston has made some brilliant organizational moves over the last few years and Kubiak has just been a part of that bigger wave. Rick Smith knows what the hell he is doing.

They let Mario Williams walk for nothing and actually got better on defense and then used that money to extend a bunch of good players. Mario was not a superstar, but he was quite good and then never even blinked. Now, Buffalo is regretting the money they paid him.

By the way, Bum Phillips has a weekly radio segment on one of the Houston talk shows. It's as good as you would think. I listen every week and have never understood a word the man has said. I think most of the discussion is about brisket.

This is a HUGE key.

And it can only be accomplished with patience.

People want to know how some teams manage to draft so well and consistently pull in players who contribute immediately,, and it's because their continuity allows them to scout better. The Texans now have that continuity, they can scout guys for what they KNOW they can do in their system, because they know the system will be intact.

the importance of this cannot be understated.

~Bang

right, this is why i'm not on the "Fire Shanny and clean house" bandwagon. All i would suggest is that they make some minor organizational adjustments. Take some things off of Shanny's plate.

Kubiak is in his seventh year with a team that has been to one playoff game and lost it. Is that really the best model we can find?

People here were staggered when Kubiak got a sixth year. And to be honest' date=' at this point, the conquering hero in Houston is Wade Phillips. Kubiak seemed to have no idea what to do on defense for years. Bum's son came in and suddenly, they are dominant on that side of the ball and JJ Watt is going to make the Hall of Fame. Like next week. Seriously, he is playing the better on defense than anyone has ever played on defense.

Houston has made some brilliant organizational moves over the last few years and Kubiak has just been a part of that bigger wave. Rick Smith knows what the hell he is doing.

They let Mario Williams walk for nothing and actually got better on defense and then used that money to extend a bunch of good players. Mario was not a superstar, but he was quite good and then never even blinked. Now, Buffalo is regretting the money they paid him.

By the way, Bum Phillips has a weekly radio segment on one of the Houston talk shows. It's as good as you would think. I listen every week and have never understood a word the man has said. I think most of the discussion is about brisket.[/quote']

This post should be stickied.

really,, it is a prime example of how patience can pay off.

That, and grabbing a top flight coordinator when you can.

Oldfan will hive a field day with this, and he'll be 100% right.

I'd love to know what station wade is on.. my podcast will thank you greatly for the comedy we can get from it.

~Bang

---------- Post added November-5th-2012 at 07:34 PM ----------

Kubiak is in his seventh year with a team that has been to one playoff game and lost it. Is that really the best model we can find?

Oh come now.. they're in position to make a serious run, and also look to be built to stay on top.

If it takes 7 years to achieve thatr level of potential, isn't it worth it?

they don't look to me to be a 1 year wonder 'surprise' team.. looks to me like they've built a winner.

Obviously bringing in Phillips has tranformed their defense, but their offense is certainly powerful, and has been.

Sometims, is it not possible that the final pieces like Phillips can be added as they progress, rather than having it all done at the outset?

I know we both don't like Haslett, and i know you're right about Mike's history of DCs.. but it IS possible that a change there can get better results.

Obviously all speculative, but what would the Texans be if they had given up on Kubiak 2 or 3 years ago?

I don't know that they'd be where they are now.

No gimmicks on that team.

~Bang

This post should be stickied.

really,, it is a prime example of how patience can pay off.

That, and grabbing a top flight coordinator when you can.

Oldfan will hive a field day with this, and he'll be 100% right.

I'd love to know what station wade is on.. my podcast will thank you greatly for the comedy we can get from it.

~Bang

---------- Post added November-5th-2012 at 07:34 PM ----------

Oh come now.. they're in position to make a serious run, and also to stay on top.

If it takes 7 years to achieve thatr level of potential, isn't it worth it?

they don't look to me to be a 1 year wonder 'surprise' team.. looks to me like they've built a winner.

Obviously all speculative, but what would the Texans be if they had given up on him 2 or 3 years ago?

I don't know that they'd be where they are now.

No gimmicks on that team.

~Bang

I think the Texans would be fine without Kubiak. He's a pretty good offensive coordinator and for the last two years, that's what he has been. They could replace him. You get the sense that right now, the team has two head coaches - Kubiak and Wade. Normally, this would be a disaster, but both of them seem to have personalities that are perfect for this kind of set up. Neither is an egotist. Both seem obsessed with their side of the ball. I think it's taken a ton of pressure off Kubiak.

And it's not Wade who has the radio segment. It's Bum.

89-year-old Bum Phillips.

I think it's on 610 AM in Houston.

I think the answer to our offensive questions/concerns is an increase in Roberts arm strength and how much he is putting behind his passes. I mean if he were to just throw the ball harder and get it stuck in the receivers faceguard they couldn't drop it. That right there is what they need to work on this next week.

Oh come now.. they're in position to make a serious run, and also look to be built to stay on top.

Eh...they caught a break the last two years with Indy falling apart. If Manning had been healthy last year, Kubiak may have finally been fired.

I also don't love them long-term, at least not on offense. Schaub is a bit of a China Doll. Andre Johnson is already showing a decline. And Foster is going to have close to 400 carries this year. I would not feel very comfortable with those as my "Triplets" heading forward.

On defense, they should be good for a while. I don't think Wade wants to be a head coach again (not that he necessarily has a choice), and he loves being back in Texas. He will probably be here until he or Watt retire.

And I am dead serious about Watt. He should be the MVP for the league for the first half. He's on pace for 20 sacks, 20 deflected passes, and 60some tackles. And he is a freaking defensive end in the 3-4. That's like a gold-glove shortstop hitting 60 Home Runs.