bsmsss Posted April 29, 2005 Share Posted April 29, 2005 he drafts a franchise qb in carr then takes dave ragone in round 3 and takes drew hensen in later rounds a yr later he thinks the way gibbs does--stock piling qbs is a good way of doing things--they may prove to be great,they have great trade value if they become good etc casserly said on espn radio today that gibbs loves to stock pile qbs--thats how he wins--he mentioned theisman,jay s,williams,humpries,rypien,etc etc--hmm didnt we trade jay s for lachey--not a bad trade for us so tell all media types to look into gibbs past--he always hid qbs on his roster i guess 3 super bowl titles just might show us he knows what he is doing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panthro Posted April 29, 2005 Share Posted April 29, 2005 was watching casserly on nfl total access yesterday (i think it was yesterday). he's a super intelligent guy with all kinds of class. i wish we still had him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AzSkinsFan63 Posted April 29, 2005 Share Posted April 29, 2005 In no way do I hate our draft. I'm just hoping we don't wish we had taken williams..and not because Rogers won't be doing well becasue I think he will be fine. Bit because of how MW performs (the one that got away). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsHokieFan Posted April 29, 2005 Share Posted April 29, 2005 Originally posted by panthro was watching casserly on nfl total access yesterday (i think it was yesterday). he's a super intelligent guy with all kinds of class. i wish we still had him. Whats interesting is Snyder apologized a few years later to Casserly for firing him. Said he fired the wrong guy when he got in there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herb mul-key Posted April 29, 2005 Share Posted April 29, 2005 Originally posted by panthro was watching casserly on nfl total access yesterday (i think it was yesterday). he's a super intelligent guy with all kinds of class. i wish we still had him. Now there is an idea! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mooney Posted April 29, 2005 Share Posted April 29, 2005 Please. Casserly is a bum and more to blame for the last 12 years of 'Skins futility than anybody. His horrible drafts left the cupboard bare and doomed the franchise to mediocrity. And Snyder has been trying every short-cut to win ever since. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarhog Posted April 29, 2005 Share Posted April 29, 2005 Originally posted by Mooney Please. Casserly is a bum and more to blame for the last 12 years of 'Skins futility than anybody. His horrible drafts left the cupboard bare and doomed the franchise to mediocrity. And Snyder has been trying every short-cut to win ever since. Think that might be mildly overstating the case? Even assuming your assertions have some merit, its never quite that simple, is it? I've yet to hear ANY NFL owner proclaim 'Lets take the long, drawn-out, protracted route to winning!' I understand what you're implying, but both men had to operate within the confines of the conditions/restrictions/opportunities available to them. It wasn't just about the decisions the two of them made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney B Posted April 29, 2005 Share Posted April 29, 2005 Originally posted by Mooney Please. Casserly is a bum Bobby Beathard gave Casserly quite a bit of credit for Beathard's success, and the list of players who were discovered by Casserly, starting with Joe Jacoby, is impressive indeed. That said, it would seem that Casserly, brilliant though he may be, has had more success as a "super-scout" (he assembled the entire strike-year replacement team, which went undefeated) than as a GM. I liken Casserly to Richie Petitbon - a great assistant who, for whatever reason, is not cut out to be the head man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhead36 Posted April 29, 2005 Share Posted April 29, 2005 He seems to be doing pretty well down in Houston. His drafts have been great. David Carr, Andre Johnson, Domanick Davis, Dunta Robinson, and this year Travis Johnson. Not too shabby...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mooney Posted April 29, 2005 Share Posted April 29, 2005 Originally posted by Tarhog I understand what you're implying, but both men had to operate within the confines of the conditions/restrictions/opportunities available to them. It wasn't just about the decisions the two of them made. What conditions or restrictions caused Casserly to consistently have horrible drafts? He was GM. He made bad personnel decisions, every year. He should be held more accountable by what I thought was a more knowledgeable fan base. Of course, its easier to blame Snyder. Casserly had anecdotal success stories, Stephen Davis the most obvious. But he blew every 1st round pick he made. And that includes Champ, who he gave up too much to move up for with Chris McAllister on the board. Bottom line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mooney Posted April 29, 2005 Share Posted April 29, 2005 Originally posted by The Chief I liken Casserly to Richie Petitbon - a great assistant who, for whatever reason, is not cut out to be the head man. Your right. I should have been more specific. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryerye05 Posted April 29, 2005 Share Posted April 29, 2005 lets set things straight, GIBBS made casserly who he is, casserly didnt make gibbs who he is.....without Gibbs casserly would be a nobody Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted April 29, 2005 Share Posted April 29, 2005 Not sure Casserly has ever been set up to win. When he was here, he had an owner (john cooke) that wouldn't spend money. Then he goes to Houston, starting a franchise from scratch. That is a tough one, too... but I think he's done a decent job when it's all said and done. I think it would be interesting to see Casserly go to a team that had a good owner and a solid core of players. He would probably surprise a lot of people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mooney Posted April 29, 2005 Share Posted April 29, 2005 Originally posted by Warhead36 He seems to be doing pretty well down in Houston. His drafts have been great. David Carr, Andre Johnson, Domanick Davis, Dunta Robinson, and this year Travis Johnson. Not too shabby...... Top 5 and extra draft picks due to being an expansion team almost assures good picks. Dom Capers helps too. I will give him credit for the Drew Henson deal though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarhog Posted April 29, 2005 Share Posted April 29, 2005 Originally posted by Mooney What conditions or restrictions caused Casserly to consistently have horrible drafts? He was GM. He made bad personnel decisions, every year. He should be held more accountable by what I thought was a more knowledgeable fan base. Of course, its easier to blame Snyder. Casserly had anecdotal success stories, Stephen Davis the most obvious. But he blew every 1st round pick he made. And that includes Champ, who he gave up too much to move up for with Chris McAllister on the board. Bottom line. Well, he was FIRED. How much more accountable did you want him to be:laugh: I don't blame either of them. What a lot of NFL fans don't want to recognize is that success is cyclical. Ask the 49ers, the Cowboys, the Packers, the Rams, any number of NFL front offices about that. I'm not arguing that Casserly, Snyder, or anyone else out there hasn't contributed to our inability to consistently field a winning team over the past decade. Take the draft. Its 50% genius, and 50% luck. And I may be overestimating the genius portion. No one knows for sure how a draft class is going to pan out. You have a couple mediocre drafts, all of a sudden you're a mickey-mouse organization with 'idiots' running the show. A couple nice ones, you're a God and infallible. No one really wants to admit that its a crapshoot. I think you're being a little tough on Casserly and company, thats all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GSF Posted April 29, 2005 Share Posted April 29, 2005 Casserly may not be a bum, but he sure drafted a lot of bums for the Skins. Shuler, Bobby Wilson, Andre Johnson, and Westbroken to name a few. His records with and without Gibbs are like night and day. I strongly agree w/ the original poster's point though that Gibbs believes in stocking up on QBs. Gibbs has said that the second most important position after QB is the second QB. After Pat we've got nothing. Nada. Zilch... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mooney Posted April 29, 2005 Share Posted April 29, 2005 Originally posted by Tarhog Take the draft. Its 50% genius, and 50% luck. And I may be overestimating the genius portion. No one knows for sure how a draft class is going to pan out. You have a couple mediocre drafts, all of a sudden you're a mickey-mouse organization with 'idiots' running the show. A couple nice ones, you're a God and infallible. No one really wants to admit that its a crapshoot. Sorry, don't buy it. Too many personnel men in the NFL, past and current, have consistently demonstrated at least competence. He didn't. I hold him accountable. We will just have to disagree. HTTR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inmate running the asylum Posted April 29, 2005 Share Posted April 29, 2005 Originally posted by Mooney Sorry, don't buy it. Too many personnel men in the NFL, past and current, have consistently demonstrated at least competence. He didn't. I hold him accountable. We will just have to disagree. HTTR. I did some research on Casserly awhile back (see link) and have to agree with Mooney about Casserly. http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=1016891#post1016891 Casserly was not a very good GM and still has not produced a winner in 4 seasons in Houston. He was a good scout and put together the Redskins strike team, for which he was given credit by Beathard. My research mainly pertained to his draft picks, but he also had a number of bum free agent signings which didn't pan out -- Stubblefield, etc. :doh: Casserly falls into the category of being at best a mediocre GM -- which most of the NFL teams have -- which we don't need. The key to long-term success is not in hiring a mediocre GM, but in finding and hiring an excellent personnel man like Scott Pioli in New England. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsFTW Posted April 29, 2005 Share Posted April 29, 2005 Originally posted by inmate running the asylum My research mainly pertained to his draft picks, but he also had a number of bum free agent signings which didn't pan out -- Stubblefield, etc. :doh: Casserly falls into the category of being at best a mediocre GM -- which most of the NFL teams have -- which we don't need. The key to long-term success is not in hiring a mediocre GM, but in finding and hiring an excellent personnel man like Scott Pioli in New England. Well a lot of those picks and free agent signings would have probably been better on a team with good coaching. I mean, Stubblefield was the Defensive MVP the year we got him and he was an instant scrub here. I think a lot of those low round draft picks would have been good players if Gibbs had been here still also. I was wishing from about 1996-2000 that Norv would be fired but somehow he stuck around for most of a decade stinking it up with a pretty good roster most of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scruffylookin Posted April 29, 2005 Share Posted April 29, 2005 Originally posted by Warhead36 He seems to be doing pretty well down in Houston. His drafts have been great. David Carr, Andre Johnson, Domanick Davis, Dunta Robinson, and this year Travis Johnson. Not too shabby...... David Carr has not been any better than our own Patrick Ramsey. 2002 Houston Texans 16 16 444 233 52.5 2592 5.84 81 9 15 76/411 31 5 62.8 2003 Houston Texans 12 11 295 167 56.6 2013 6.82 78 9 13 15/90 22 5 69.5 2004 Houston Texans 16 16 466 285 61.2 3531 7.58 69 16 14 49/301 47 6 83.5 TOTAL 44 43 1205 685 56.8 8136 6.75 81 34 42 140/802 100 16 72.5 Patrick 2002 Washington Redskins 9 5 227 117 51.5 1539 6.78 62 9 8 18/132 19 5 71.8 2003 Washington Redskins 11 11 337 179 53.1 2166 6.43 64 14 9 30/206 34 3 75.8 2004 Washington Redskins 9 7 272 169 62.1 1665 6.12 51 10 11 23/137 17 2 74.8 TOTAL 29 23 836 465 55.6 5370 6.42 64 33 28 71/475 70 10 74.4 Carr has been in the same system while Patrick's had to learn a new offense in year three so Carr's 3rd year was better but overall Patrick's put up the better QB rating. When Houston fails to make the playoffs this year, they'll be the least successful expansion team since Seattle. If/when they fail to post a winning record this year, they'll be the least successful expansion team since New Orleans and Atlanta in the late 60's. Houston Texans 2002: 4-12 2003: 5-11 2004: 7- 9 2005: ? Cleveland Browns 1999: 2-14 2000: 3-13 2001: 7-9 2002: 9-7 (winning season and playoffs) Jacksonville Jaguars 1995: 4-12 1996: 9-7 (winning season and playoffs) Carolina Panthers 1995: 7-9 1996: 12-4 (winning season and playoffs) Tampa Bay Buccaneers 1976: 0-14 1977: 2-12 1978: 5-11 1979: 10-6 (winning season and playoffs) Seattle Seahawks 1976: 2-12 1977: 5-9 1978: 9-7 (winning season-did not make playoffs unitl 83) Atlanta came in the league in 1966 and it took them 6 years to have a winning record while New Orleans sets the standard for ineptitude by posting their first non losing record 12 years after coming into the league and 20 until they had a winning season. All this while building from scratch is alot easier now than it was before with extra early picks and free agency. Couple this with his atrocious draft record in Washington, and I'd say he's a seemingly nice guy who hasn't done "pretty well " as the man in charge, though he may have had his moments as a scout/assistant GM for Beathard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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