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Who Will Start QB Come Week 8???

tedskins334

By tedskins334
in 2005 Archives Forum

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tedskins334

tedskins334

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My Colors?

I go to Auburn but am from Falls Church. I have been a Redskin fan longer than an Auburn fan. I believe that my arguements stand on their own merit- Ramsey has been unsuccesful as a Redskins' quarterback- JC has led Auburn to a 13-0 season with incredible numbers. I will not look at your information to try to make an adhominem argument- to do so would be the wasting of my time and yours. I joined "extremeskins.com" as I was excited about the picks AND I had heard a lot of negativity about the Auburn players picked (both were with contrversy from 'Skins' fans, agreed).

I have seen every Redskin game this past season (on t.v., sadly).

I have also seen every Auburn game.

Can we all agree on one thing: Patrick Ramsey's performance (so far, record mainly) has not been unacceptable for the Washington Redskins. I don't care whether it is Ramsey or Campbell or Mayor McCheese, I just want a victory.

However, discussion is encouraged, so long as we all rally behind whomever Dr. Gibbs chooses to lead the team.

Thanks,

Ted

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CHUBAKAH

CHUBAKAH

Posted
Posted
Originally posted by tedskins334

My Colors?

I go to Auburn but am from Falls Church. I have been a Redskin fan longer than an Auburn fan. I believe that my arguements stand on their own merit- Ramsey has been unsuccesful as a Redskins' quarterback- JC has led Auburn to a 13-0 season with incredible numbers. I will not look at your information to try to make an adhominem argument- to do so would be the wasting of my time and yours. I joined "extremeskins.com" as I was excited about the picks AND I had heard a lot of negativity about the Auburn players picked (both were with contrversy from 'Skins' fans, agreed).

I have seen every Redskin game this past season (on t.v., sadly).

I have also seen every Auburn game.

Can we all agree on one thing: Patrick Ramsey's performance (so far, record mainly) has not been unacceptable for the Washington Redskins. I don't care whether it is Ramsey or Campbell or Mayor McCheese, I just want a victory.

However, discussion is encouraged, so long as we all rally behind whomever Dr. Gibbs chooses to lead the team.

Thanks,

Ted

You are my missing son aren't you?

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dfitzo53

dfitzo53

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This post may end up being rather long, so bear with me.

Originally posted by tedskins334

You can call my opinions idiotic, but the numbers speak for themselves: http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/statistics?stat=pass&sort=rat&pos=off&league=nfl&order=true&season=2&year=2004

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?statsId=5918

This is probably a better page for reviewing Ramsey's play. Note three games with 100+ passer ratings in the last five. In the NFL second-string quarterbacks tend to receive only 10-20% of the snaps with the first-team offense. For the first half of the season Ramsey had little time in practice with his receivers, his line or his runningbacks. Also, he came into the Giants and Bengals games trailing in the second half. He was forcing throws because he had to try to make a comeback. Statistics should never be disregarded, I agree with you. Equally true that they should never be taken alone. They must be interpreted and read in context.

Originally posted by tedskins334

When it comes to it, I don't think any of us can definitively say that one or the other would be best.

Definitively? No, of course not. But as I've said before, rookies generally don't do well their first year.

For some teams it makes sense to put the rookies in early. Jon Kitna is decent, but he's not the future, and since they likely weren't headed to the playoffs it made sense to put Palmer in. There is a similar situation with Vick in Atlanta and it was much the same when Peyton Manning came to Indianapolis.

For other teams throwing a young quarterback into the fray too early can ruin a season. The Giants were sitting in good position to go to the playoffs before Kurt Warner was pulled and they promptly nosedived. (Whether or not they would actually have gone to the postseason with Warner is a matter of conjecture, but it was certainly possible.) The Cardinals pulled the arm of a quarterback slot machine midway through the season with the same result.

The Chargers brought in a high profile rookie quarterback last year, but Marty Schottenheimer told Brees the job was still his. Brees at the time was an unproven quarterback who, to paraphrase, had never been a winner in San Diego. I'm sure you know how that turned out. That, my friend, is the situation we're in.

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BurgundyBomber

BurgundyBomber

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I didn't see an explicit answer for an earlier posted question "Why the undying support for Ramsey" although those of us who've actually watched the 'Skins since forever know the answer:

PR's role as the Human Tackling Dummy during the 2003 campaign.

That's when the Ball Coach's 'Pitch and Catch' gave PR a view of the sky after every other passing attempt. I'm surprised he doesn't have flashbacks or Post-Traumatic Syndrome or something.

Pat's ability to complete passes knowing he was going to creamed made it tempting to extrapolate how Pat would do if protected. Unfortunately, Gibbs' first year brought in the Brunell Experiment and I must say it - a 1992 offense struggling to adapt to 21st century rules and reality. Pat did well once tapped to start, considering our (lack of) line play and a running game that was better understood by opposing defenses (or at least bad enough someone could claim this and you could have a decent discussion about it).

Now let me say this - Campbell will not start this year. Campbell will win the Nobel Prize for Economics first. But let's say somehow all other QBs are injured and he must start (cause anything can happen in the NFL), it'll be (1) take snap (2) pivot left or right (3) hand ball to Portis/RB of your choice. I would read this draft choice more as a sign of how long Gibbs plans to be coach than as a threat to Ramsey. This is no reflection on Campbell - I just don't see a college QB walking in and digesting a Gibbs playbook like the Matrix or something ("ahh yesss, now I know the Playbook - 60 slide X bamm twist charlie swing swing swing").

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Atlanta Skins Fan

Atlanta Skins Fan

Posted
Posted
Originally posted by tedskins334

Is that not far cry from Patrick Ramsey's holdout during his rookie year? Ole' P-Diddy Ramsey holding out because he wants to be "Dollar McBaller", or was he just too busy NOT attending training camp?

...

What has Ramsey done to warrant all of this loyalty?

-Held out on the Redskins, delaying training camp so that he could pull in some more 'big bucks'

-Had an abysmal rookie year, followed by a still subpar sophomore year, only to be followed by an atrocious third year (using QB rating as a basis for comparison) with our team

While people may second guess Dr. Gibbs' selections in the draft, may they be reminded of the excellence exhibited by JC on and off the field and the potential for Him to be best thing to hit D.C. since sliced bread.

...

I believe that the skills and talents of these two speak for themselves. Ramsey has not been a winner on the 'Skins. Nuff.

Jason Campbell played in the most difficult conference in the NCAA and scored 20+ at every game except LSU (4th quarter comeback) and VT (conservative offensive style). Give him a chance or people will be calling out like when Donna Martin was bout nots to graduate.

I'm sure glad tedskins334 isn't actually Jason Campbell, because if he were, it would mean the Skins have mortgaged their future in order to draft a pinhead.

Hey Ted, since you probably saw all this firsthand fairly close to the action, why so much confidence in Jason Campbell? No doubt he helped a great team win, but he hardly drove them to win.

In 2003, Auburn was 1-5 when they asked JC to pass more than 19 times in a game. The winning formula in 2004 turned out to be a run-first offense, combined with a few high-percentage JC passes to keep the defense honest.

Over 26 games from 2003 - 2004, I believe JC threw only three TD passes when Auburn was behind.

So, no, JC cannot be credited with having "scored 20+ at every game" especially on an offense that learned to trust JC with only 20 passes a game.

As for Ramsey, one thing I've come to really like about the guy is his great character and his consistent humility. He gives credit to his teammates when he wins, and he takes the blame when he loses.

I called JC a "great character guy" in a recent writeup here (Anatomy of a Bust). It will be interesting to see if he lives up to that description. For some reason ... although it's hard to say for certain ... I think I spoke prematurely. It would be most unfortunate if he were the type of guy to undermine Ramsey behind his back, in order to promote himself. You know what I mean? :)

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Cool Hand Loki

Cool Hand Loki

Posted
Posted
Originally posted by Ghost of Nibbs McPimpin

Ah, statistics, the final refuge of the undiscerning football eye.

Agreed. Tell Atlanta Skins Fan. I'm willing to bet that dude's never played a single down of football.

"Moneyball" was cool, and it was also about BASEBALL. Jeeezus. Moe-rons.

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dfitzo53

dfitzo53

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Originally posted by BurgundyBomber

But let's say somehow all other QBs are injured and he must start (cause anything can happen in the NFL), it'll be (1) take snap (2) pivot left or right (3) hand ball to Portis/RB of your choice. I would read this draft choice more as a sign of how long Gibbs plans to be coach than as a threat to Ramsey. This is no reflection on Campbell - I just don't see a college QB walking in and digesting a Gibbs playbook like the Matrix or something ("ahh yesss, now I know the Playbook - 60 slide X bamm twist charlie swing swing swing").

I agree with you everywhere but here. Campbell won't be coming in unless there are extenuating circumstances, but if he does he won't just be handing it off. I don't care if you're the Baltimore Ravens, you can't run all 60-70 downs of an NFL game. He'll run a pared-down playbook, probably involving a lot of short, high-percentage passes. Rest assured, however, that he'll be asked to make some plays. There just isn't any other way to run a professional offense.

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wsniper1

wsniper1

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Posted

Just to show you guys what Ramsey's stats would have been*, had he started 16 games.

* denotes that, yes this is a projection, any stupid comment that says, "blah blah blah thats only projections" can offically STFU right now. Also, yes I know halves aren't possible...

Taking into account every start that PR took in the 2004 season and projecting them to a full 16 game schedule.

Att: 496

Comp: 324.5

% 65.4

Yards: 3001

TDs 18.3

Ints: 13.7

Rating: 81.25

Take out the first two games he started(which I think is unfair).

Rating 89.973(90 QB Rating)

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DB44

DB44

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Posted
Originally posted by denverdan

Sorry ted, Campbell is going to be 3rd string, 3rd string he will remain the entire season; if he does get into a game, its just to wet his feet, nothing more.

Ageed. He will be holding the clip board all year unless Ramsey and Brunell go down in the same game. He is here to learn for at least two years.

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DB44

DB44

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Originally posted by denverdan

By the way that rook avatar is SWEEEET and I hope that rook will be starting by game 8

It just popped up today around noon. I'm not crazy about the next avatar up, I think its benchwarmer, so I'll have to stop posting...yea right!:D

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BurgundyBomber

BurgundyBomber

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dfitzo53 - think Brian Mitchell in the 'Body Bag' Philly game. Since Brian was a RB, he simply kept quite a few as draw plays. If I recall correctly he passed a couple times - just enough to keep the defense tame. That's what I would expect from a Campbell showing if he's forced in before say game 12.

But my basic premise still remains and those who are worrying about Campbell with regard to Ramsey's future are worrying about the wrong thing. Worry about Portis and the O-line. Ramsey can be his own best friend or his worse enemy with his quality of play - and that will determine how long he QBs the 'Skins.

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SkinsHokieFan

SkinsHokieFan

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Posted
Originally posted by tedskins334

My Colors?

I go to Auburn but am from Falls Church. I have been a Redskin fan longer than an Auburn fan. I believe that my arguements stand on their own merit- Ramsey has been unsuccesful as a Redskins' quarterback- JC has led Auburn to a 13-0 season with incredible numbers. I will not look at your information to try to make an adhominem argument- to do so would be the wasting of my time and yours. I joined "extremeskins.com" as I was excited about the picks AND I had heard a lot of negativity about the Auburn players picked (both were with contrversy from 'Skins' fans, agreed).

I have seen every Redskin game this past season (on t.v., sadly).

I have also seen every Auburn game.

Can we all agree on one thing: Patrick Ramsey's performance (so far, record mainly) has not been unacceptable for the Washington Redskins. I don't care whether it is Ramsey or Campbell or Mayor McCheese, I just want a victory.

However, discussion is encouraged, so long as we all rally behind whomever Dr. Gibbs chooses to lead the team.

Thanks,

Ted

Teddy Brown??

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