TK Posted April 29, 2005 Share Posted April 29, 2005 Ted - You keep pointing to a SEASON stat chart. You're aware Ramsey didn't play the entire season last year, right? If you want to make a comparison, that's fine. Just make sure you're comparing apples to apples, not apples to oranges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCS Posted April 29, 2005 Share Posted April 29, 2005 Originally posted by Ghost of Nibbs McPimpin Ah, statistics, the final refuge of the undiscerning football eye. Sorry, you forget that the Giants and Bengals game gets included in Patrick's final rating. That the 4 yard pass offense when he first came in also affects that rating. So you CANT IGNORE the last 5 games and his rating and performance. You cannot ignore what he did in his rookie season, especially with such a system being incorporated that took out support from under him. And his second year? You mean the year he broke his foot but before that played well and had a winnning record? The same season that Spurrier's system was fully exposed and he didn't even add hot reads and the like until Tim H had to play? Do me favor would ya? simply from one poster to another, knock that "idiotic"type crap and/or questioning another posters football knowledge off type crap just because they something about Patrick that may not be in agreement with your own point of view. It's getting damned old. No. I don't care if that's the way you see it. Brings down the debate at hand to something more personal and we have enough of that going on these days. Thanks. Ted, going to have to do better than that. For obvious reasons. * For the record, as a PR fan, I see no reason, barring a flat out miserable performance, for there being a change at QB. Patrick has Coach's confidence and will have a full offseason as the #1 to prepare. He has a new QB coach to help him along, ( so be patient if he does make a few mistakes. It will be his 3rd). He played well enough late last season to show that he deserves coach's confidence. And that means he has mine too, ( not that he already didn't, just needed the reaffirmation). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsHokieFan Posted April 29, 2005 Share Posted April 29, 2005 Ramsey Campbell will have a fine NFL career, either here or in some other city. It took him 3 years in college to fully turn it on and be the playmaker that he was his final season. I expect it will take him that same amount of time in the pros. As I have been saying, I am pretty optimistic Ramsey will be our starter for the next 5 years while Campbell is a very capable backup. Once Campbell's first contract is up then we will make some sort of decision. I have no doubt both these guys will succeed. For now this is Patrick Ramsey's team and if he is not injured he will start the whole year. I will be absolutley STUNNED if Jason Campbell starts a game this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Posted April 29, 2005 Share Posted April 29, 2005 PCS I appreciate your thoughts, but I don't think it's as simple as me calling someone 'idiotic' because they disagree with me on this issue. One could be a critic of Sean Taylor and maintain a modicum of objectivity and sanity when posting such critiques. Merely saying, "Taylor has been a disaster, he didn't start the year and he got beat on that TD in Dallas" is as much flamebait, semi-trollish behavior as calling someone on that behavior. Now, I would agree with you that perhaps we just need to ignore or dismiss briefly, such analyses when they are offered rather than react. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tedskins334 Posted April 29, 2005 Author Share Posted April 29, 2005 Touche', I do look at the season. The main thing, and I know it is not just the quarterback, is the record, though. And from all of my conversations with loyal 'Skins fans, it seems that everybody backs Ramsey and won't give JC a chance. When it comes to it, I don't think any of us can definitively say that one or the other would be best. However, I believe that the skills and talents of these two speak for themselves. Ramsey has not been a winner on the 'Skins. Nuff. Jason Campbell played in the most difficult conference in the NCAA and scored 20+ at every game except LSU (4th quarter comeback) and VT (conservative offensive style). Give him a chance or people will be calling out like when Donna Martin was bout nots to graduate. Thank you for your feedback, it is excellent food for thought. Ted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarhog Posted April 29, 2005 Share Posted April 29, 2005 Anyone who's looking fairly and objectively is going to come to a couple conclusions: a) Ramsey has a Pro-bowl caliber arm, one of the strongest in the NFL currently. Ramsey has shown some need for improvement in getting rid of the ball when theres no play to be made, and in making touch passes. c) Ramsey needs to work on better selling play-action passes. d) Ramsey has played remarkably well, considering his youth, inexperience, and a major injury and working under 2 radically different offenses and coaching staffs. Theres a reason why Gibb's didn't trade Ramsey away before last season or this one - the guy's got a LOT of potential. Whether he takes the next step this year, I don't know. I hope so. But if you think Gibbs drafted Campbell to dethrone Ramsey as starter anytime soon, I think you're barking up the wrong tree. As to why Ramsey has our loyalty (most of us anyway), he's been nothing but tough, generally classy, and a team guy the whole way through here. He's done everything that was asked for him. His supremely professional handling of being benched in favor of Brunell last year (and refusing to utter an unkind word) showed what kind of a guy he is. In other words - he deserves loyalty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsHokieFan Posted April 29, 2005 Share Posted April 29, 2005 Originally posted by tedskins334 Touche', I do look at the season. The main thing, and I know it is not just the quarterback, is the record, though. And from all of my conversations with loyal 'Skins fans, it seems that everybody backs Ramsey and won't give JC a chance. When it comes to it, I don't think any of us can definitively say that one or the other would be best. However, I believe that the skills and talents of these two speak for themselves. Ramsey has not been a winner on the 'Skins. Nuff. Jason Campbell played in the most difficult conference in the NCAA and scored 20+ at every game except LSU (4th quarter comeback) and VT (conservative offensive style). Give him a chance or people will be calling out like when Donna Martin was bout nots to graduate. Thank you for your feedback, it is excellent food for thought. Ted It really is not that nobody is giving him a chance. He is a rookie, there is someone here who has a full year head start on him in the offense Hey if JC shows me he is better then Ramsey then sure put him in. But he won't this year because he has to not only understand a complex offense but also NFL defenses. You can say he had a conservative O in that Sugar Bowl, but he was going up against the 6th best D in the nation last year. Hence being shut down 3 times within the 5 and having to settle for FG"s. However JC made big plays in that game which set up scores and helped lead Aurburn to victory. He'll get his chance. Just not this year. And next year isn't lookin too good either Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryerye05 Posted April 29, 2005 Share Posted April 29, 2005 i really hope ramsey can just play out the whole year, changing qb's just disrupts offenses way to much from the passing game all the way to the running game. We dont need ramsey to be a super star if our defense is as good as it was last year. if we can get him to complete 62 percent of his passes for about 225 yards a game i think we'll be playoff bound. With a healthy offensive line portis should break 1500 yards this year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarhog Posted April 29, 2005 Share Posted April 29, 2005 Originally posted by tedskins334 Touche', I do look at the season. The main thing, and I know it is not just the quarterback, is the record, though. And from all of my conversations with loyal 'Skins fans, it seems that everybody backs Ramsey and won't give JC a chance. No offense, but what are you talking about here? I'm trying to understand you, not provoke a pissing contest. Campbell is an unproven rookie. Period. I love what I see in him - thats called 'potential'. Until you do it on an NFL field under real pressure in a real game, thats all it'll ever be. The NFL roadside is littered with the corpses of former great college QBs, including some Heisman winners. Don't mean a thing, thats the harsh reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryerye05 Posted April 29, 2005 Share Posted April 29, 2005 i think ramsey knows most of the redskins fans like him. i mean ive been to about 3 games now where 90,000 fans have shouted his name to come into a game over a different qb.....this is his year to shine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK Posted April 29, 2005 Share Posted April 29, 2005 Hey Ted Pat says "Hi" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adarsh1 Posted April 29, 2005 Share Posted April 29, 2005 Jason Campbell will start and lead us to the playoffs(go auburn!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Posted April 29, 2005 Share Posted April 29, 2005 I don't think anyone is hating on Jason the person. Only a few think he has no potential or high bust quotient. It's the sacrifice and the turncoat mentality displayed by SOME Skins fans that is troubling. As soon as someone is drafted, we get the "Lavar/Pat/Rock is finished" threads. At least with Lavar he recently made a very stupid mistake. What did Pat do to not merely earn 'criticism' but sometimes venomous attacks on a board that he is involved with? Does no one think that maybe these players are human and that they may/do read this board? Maybe, even in criticism, we should not be so harsh in our language and not be so prone to exaggerated statements. I also noted how when Brunell came on, we had an influx of anti-ramsey posters(lots of new ones too) and now with Campbell, we're seeing a few strays come in. It's cool if you love Campbell or don't think Ramsey is 'the answer.' But, seriously, these patterns of posting behavior make me skeptical. Especially when such overstatement is employed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCS Posted April 29, 2005 Share Posted April 29, 2005 Originally posted by adarsh1 Jason Campbell will start and lead us to the playoffs(go auburn!) Ghost, remember what I said ealier in the thread? Nevermind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Posted April 29, 2005 Share Posted April 29, 2005 Well, I at least know that adarsh has been a Skins fan(from KFFL, I believe) But yes, the post speaks for itself. I can't be the only one who noticed tedskins chosen colors for his name? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK Posted April 29, 2005 Share Posted April 29, 2005 Originally posted by Ghost of Nibbs McPimpin I can't be the only one who noticed tedskins chosen colors for his name? Nope. There's a very specific reason I asked him how long he'd been a Skins fan, & wasn't just his colors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Posted April 29, 2005 Share Posted April 29, 2005 LOL I didn't even look at his location! Man, talk about overlooking the obvious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK Posted April 29, 2005 Share Posted April 29, 2005 Oh, there's more to it then that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarhog Posted April 29, 2005 Share Posted April 29, 2005 Originally posted by Ghost of Nibbs McPimpin Does no one think that maybe these players are human and that they may/do read this board? Maybe, even in criticism, we should not be so harsh in our language and not be so prone to exaggerated statements.. Just friendly curiousity here - does that mean you regret publically gutting Brunell at every turn during his stint last season? Because its quite possible he read some of your comments. Not picking a fight, you'll have to take my word for it here. I just wonder if you believe what you're saying here, or is it Ramsey-specific Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Posted April 29, 2005 Share Posted April 29, 2005 Tarhog Ah, but my friend, I considered my Brunell position before I posted it. The difference? Reality. Brunell WAS terrible. I didn't overstep the bounds of reality when posting. If you look at my seminal "Downfall" thread, you'll see that I was pretty measured with my criticism. Ramsey has actually participated on this board, handled the Brunell thing with class(after an initial agent-driven grumbling) and most importantly for my point, he HAS SHOWN ABILITY AND PRODUCED. Can he do better? Certainly. But should we turn our backs on the good guys AND on reality because we drafted a new player at that spot? Should we tolerate interlopers(whether or not they establish themselves later) who do nothing but spew venom even when the facts are so evident to the discerning eye? So what I'm really saying is heavy criticism of someone who is turning in TERRIBLE performances and seems reluctant to take blame(as Ramsey does) is not at all like the vitriol and complete blindness to facts or nuanced observation that I see with Ramsey. It's not so much Ramsey-specific as it is truth-specific. Brunell was so bad and so gutless he lost that protection. I am against venom against almost all the other players, as well, because most of them produced and/or took the blame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walking Deadman Posted April 29, 2005 Share Posted April 29, 2005 Pat's the guy....period (again barring injury--which for him I say is few and far btw.....despite the pounding he's taken over the years). Why our loyalty to Patrick Ramsey..... Ted, I'm not sure if you saw his 2nd year (Spurrier's last year as Redskins HC) in 2003 but PR was basically a punching bag all year. Spurrier gave Patrick no hot routes or any decent blocking schemes thus PR basically got hit on every play......it was so bad that the announcers and opposing teams were calling for Spurrier to "throw in the towel" for Ramsey. Ramsey has been a tough, strong armed fighter ever since he came in and won against the Titans a couple of years ago. When Brunell floundered.....it was most of extremskins that called for Ramsey (I'll admit I was on the Brunell side of the "Bench Brunell" arguement for longer than most b/c I was worried that Ramsey wasn't ready based on his struggles during the preseason) to come in. Patrick did ask to be traded last year b/c he thought he was going to be shafted with Brunell's arrival, yet he talked with Gibbs (who was straight with PR) and since he's worked hard and not complained until he got his shot again. He's come in and played well....he deserves to be the starter in 2005 and have the opportunity to have a make or break 2005. Campbell is the future and we'll probably see him sooner than later. Don't worry ted, you'll get to see Campbell.....just probably longer than you hoped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarhog Posted April 29, 2005 Share Posted April 29, 2005 Originally posted by Ghost of Nibbs McPimpin Tarhog Ah, but my friend, I considered my Brunell position before I posted it. The difference? Reality. Brunell WAS terrible. I didn't overstep the bounds of reality when posting. If you look at my seminal "Downfall" thread, you'll see that I was pretty measured with my criticism. Ramsey has actually participated on this board, handled the Brunell thing with class(after an initial agent-driven grumbling) and most importantly for my point, he HAS SHOWN ABILITY AND PRODUCED. Can he do better? Certainly. But should we turn our backs on the good guys AND on reality because we drafted a new player at that spot? Should we tolerate interlopers(whether or not they establish themselves later) who do nothing but spew venom even when the facts are so evident to the discerning eye? So what I'm really saying is heavy criticism of someone who is turning in TERRIBLE performances and seems reluctant to take blame(as Ramsey does) is not at all like the vitriol and complete blindness to facts or nuanced observation that I see with Ramsey. Don't misunderstand, I don't disagree with a word you've said in this thread My question was sincerely related to last year and your crusade - although ultimately you clearly were on the right side of that argument. I think your self-defense here is a stretch though, and I say that with good-humor and camaraderie, not as a slam. If you're going to go with the whole 'that player may read those harsh and unkind words' thing, you're not on thin ice, you're on the bottom strapped to a piano. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Posted April 29, 2005 Share Posted April 29, 2005 Well, maybe I went well past my intended boundary. Certainly, if a player is arrested for murder, rape, or other serious crime and the evidence looks much against him--rail away. If a player is doing OK and isn't a criminal, we should be a bit nicer. Meaning, I feel the SAME WAY about the Bowen and Lavar haters(until Lavar opened his mouth to utter the 'mistake'.) It's not the unkind words alone that I'm speaking of, but the package of vitriol and lack of eye for talent/production. It's why I don't get on people who like to 'butter' Jimoh with 'toast' appellations. Raise your game, Ade, and people will be less harsh. I think it's why people laughed at but also disliked the "Retardo Wynn" thread. The guy isn't a total bum and it was just out of line. You getting more of what I meant now? (and yes, I know you're not slamming me at all. I'm just explaining for the future, because it's not JUST about Ramsey.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK Posted April 29, 2005 Share Posted April 29, 2005 Originally posted by goskins Ted, I'm not sure if you saw his 2nd year (Spurrier's last year as Redskins HC) in 2003 Of course he's had to have seen it. Originally posted by tedskins334 No, I don't have an agenda other than to see the Redskins win. I have been a Redskins fan since birth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarhog Posted April 29, 2005 Share Posted April 29, 2005 I'm just giving you a little rhetorical workout in the likely event that Brunell actually sees the field at some point in the coming season. Brace yourself - its bound to happen. Its what friends do. Now give up the car keys and any sharp objects you have on you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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