OT - Voter fraud in Florida? Never!

[The Evil Genius]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&ncid=716&e=3&u=/ap/20020521/ap_on_go_ot/2000_election_lawsuits

From the files of the criminally obvious.

[redman]

linky no worky

pasty the story

[DIESEL TROLL]

Just goes to show that the "lefterals" are still desperate as hell and wriggling like a worm on a hook..........:finger: :finger: :finger:

[OrangeSkin]

What a bunch of BS. The damn liberals are trying to toss dirt on Bush for 2004. Well, I have two words for all of 'em. SUCK IT :finger:

[Atlanta Skins Fan]

You guys are missing the real humor in this news story. This has to be the first time in history that the winning team is suing over election results! :laugh:

That's *George Bush's* Justice Department filing the suit, on behalf of mistreated voters who might have voted for Gore.

Like or dislike Bush, that's good sportsmanship!

[MikeB]

...failing to provide bilingual assistance!!!!

C'mon... if you can't speak rudimentary english, you shouldn't be allowed to vote at all, period.

[Atlanta Skins Fan]

Originally posted by MikeB

C'mon... if you can't speak rudimentary english, you shouldn't be allowed to vote at all, period.

Yeah, because people who can't speak English -- they're not people, right?

This country was founded by white men who spoke good English. We need to get back to that. Blacks, Hispanics, Asians, women -- give me a break. How many of them did you see at the Constitutional convention?

I also get ticked off at people whose car is blowing out smoke. Gets in my lungs. Too stupid to fix your car? Too stupid to vote.

Poor people, too. This is the goddamn land of opportunity, and you're still poor? Bzzzzzzz. Sorry. Too stupid to vote.

Don't get me started on the cripples. Listen, cripples, you're lucky we keep you alive. I've had enough of you goobers canceling my vote and looking for handouts. Buh-bye, goober vote.

[Ramblin' Skin]

OS if you're going to post with a picture of JS plus scripture. try to refrain from saying "SUCK IT." It's disturbing to your brothers out here.:doh:

[Montilar]

Sorry Atlanta skins fan.... as a citizen they have the right to vote like you and I. They are humans just like you and I.

BUT......

if you move to Germany, shouldn't you learn THEIR language instead of saying " I speak english, you learn MINE?

Or if you go to Spain, shouldn't you learn spanish? or Russian if moving to Russia? and so on.

If you immigrate to the US you should learn to speak American.

I get tired of going into a fast food joint and having the employees "not speaka anglish". and end up getting the wrong food. or going into a store and getting "NO English" when citing violations. but they understand perfectly well when a customer wants to pay.......... I have a LOT of places I go to that the children speak english but the parents or grand parents do not....

It's just like the statement "ignorance of the law is no excuse". You want to live in another country you can D@mn well learn the language. You shouldn't cater to someone who is too lazy to learn the language by having interpretors at the polling booths. I'm not calling them ignorant or stupid or anything. Lazy, yes.

Yes, the US is a mish mash of cultures from around the globe. But as long as you allow people to not learn a common tongue, your going to get your "chinatowns", "Harlems", "little siagons", ethiopian communities, etc. And IT WILL contribute to stereotyping, racism and so on. If you speak a common tongue, maybe it would help break down a barrier or two.

Do you want to have public schools require students to take not just english, but spanish, vietnamese, korean, etc. have kids spend all their time learing languages instead of sciences or math? i believe some states or school systems with huge hispanic populations do require students to take spanish. Or so I remember hearing. And that's ridiculous.

Like I said, you move to a country, you should learn the native or predominant language.

[Romberjo]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A52089-2002May21.html

From a WP story on the same suit:

Ralph F. Boyd Jr., assistant attorney general for civil rights, told the Senate Judiciary Committee that the cases are likely to be filed in 30 to 60 days. He said he expects the counties and municipalities to admit wrongdoing and agree to take steps to prevent recurrences of problems in the 2002 elections.

Given that the Bush Justice Dept. is bringing the suit, and the counties and municipalities sued are expected to admit wrongdoing and take steps to prevent recurrences of admitted problems, the evidence of desperate, sore-loser liberalism seems scant, indeed.

[Pete]

There's an on going public argument about the spanish speaking problem in my area. I agree with Montilar, learn to speak english. We have so many illeagles here, I don't see any problem with two forms of ID being required. There constantly yelling that the government should pay for translators at public meetings and other events.

When my grandad came from Italy in 1905, he learned to speak english, and insisted on his family doing the same. He wanted to be American. In this part of the world, Mexican, Islanders, and South Americans come here to have a system to use to their advantage, no to be Americans. It cracks me up that we have illeagles here that have the ba!!s to bit(h they get picked on by the cops and immigration services, and that our government isn't doing enough for them. There's been at least one letter to the editor, or actual story on this junk every day in the local papers for the past two months or so. Gets me sick:puke:

Ya gotta go along to get along sometimes

[Mad Mike]

Does anyone remember that Gore used every trick in the book to block a large number of votes from miltitary personal who were serving overseas, knowing that those who serve tend to lean republican?

There was plenty of questionable behavior from both sides.

[Art]

Quickly here.

The fraud committed against the voters was that thousands upon thousands of voters in the panhandle, which is heavy Republican territory, were literally turned away from voting by erroneous news reports that declared Gore had won Florida.

Second, and importantly, this is America. It's your duty to speak English. It's not our duty to make sure you can survive if you can not. If you want to vote, great. Then learn the language. It seems a pretty simple solution. I FAR prefer that than using tax dollars to provide bilingual assistance for voters who do not speak the language.

Now. To Tailgate we go .

[JimboDaMan]

Now Art.

"thousands upon thousands of voters in the panhandle, which is heavy Republican territory, were literally turned away"

The most charitable thing that can be said is that this is a deliberately misleading statement. No one was 'literally turned away'. Some unknown number chose not to vote, through their own fault.

The widely-cited 'thousands upon thousands' seems ridiculously high when the erroneous announcements came about 15 minutes before polls were to close. I realize this has become accepted lore, especially within the Republican Party. But it defies common sense, and in any event is significantly less than the clearly-intended Gore votes tossed in the butterfly ballot mess.

"this is America. It's your duty to speak English". Really? Here and I thought it was our duty to vote. A duty apparently shirked by thousands of supposed patriots who nearly cost their man the election.

Boy do I hear lots of wild proclamations about how those who are too stupid to vote (can't understand the ballot, can't read English, etc) should not be allowed to. But some Republicans chose not to vote when they thought their man had lost. Stupid, eh?

I could understand if they thought Bush had won and their vote wasn't needed. But especially if I think my man has lost a close race, you can make darn sure I'll make my vote count at least as a symbolic measure. But these same people want to somehow blame the Democrats because their own supporters deserted them out of stupidity? I don't see it.

[gbear]

You know, I have no problems with people siding with a particular party, conservative, or liberal group. However, this reflex action is pretty contemptable. Just so I have it straight, Bush's Justice Department files suit. People (and multiple people at that) say things to the effect of "those darn liberals..." At the point where you find yourself doing this, perhaps it is time to start reading the articles and making your own decisions and having some thoughts of your own outside of knee jerk reactions.

As for speaking Spanish vs. English, count me as somebody who doesn't go back to stores or fast food places where I can't be understood. Still, voting is a right for all citizens, not just the English speaking ones.

Our country is incredibly close minded about other cultures besieds our own. You see it our own reluctance to learn any other languages. We think everything should be done in our language. Travel around the world...well they should speak English too. Heck, I've never had a problem traveling and speaking English. Amazing that elsewhere, people make atleast a passing effort to learn the languages of those people whom they see a lot of. Go to Italy, go to Germany. You can get by speaking English. Funny thing, I bet they see a lot less English speakers than people in FL or CA see of Spanish speakers. Here in the U.S. we're just stuck on "if you're here, do it our way."

From an economic standpoint, take a guess at which TV stations ads reach the most people in FL, TX, and CA. I'll give you a hint, it's not CBS, NBC, ABC or FOX. Maybe, we should be the ones thinking about learning additional languages. For most of the U.S., it would probably only be our second language. For shame.

[Larry]

Re: bilingual voting.

I don't think there should be a language requirement, per se, for voting. But I wouldn't have a problem with a requirement that you have to have a minimal grasp of english to recieve citizenship. (I wouldn't have a problem with a similar requirement before receiving a High School diploma. But that's another subject).

To me, in order to consider yourself worthy of citizenship, a person needs to come here, and express a desire to, so to speak, join our team. Not "take over the team", not "create a second team".

[Kilmer17]

Let me make sure I understand you whining liberal losers.

It was the CHOICE of the voters in the panhandle not to vote, but it wasnt a choice of the morons who couldnt read the ballots correctly?

And what choice did the thousands of military families have when the Gorons systematically removed their LEGAL votes?

Get over it. Gore lost. Not because some people were denied their rights, he lost because Bush received more votes in Florida thus giving him more electoral votes.

If you want to talk about fraud, how about taking a look at Wisconsin, Iowa, New Mexico, Illinoise......

[Johnny Punani2]

Originally posted by Ramblin' Skin

OS if you're going to post with a picture of JS plus scripture. try to refrain from saying "SUCK IT." It's disturbing to your brothers out here.:doh:

Yeah dude....:hammer: Maybe you should try something more religious like Thou Sucketh...:halo:

[Dr. D]

The two-party political system (all the rage this century) is NON-representative and serves only to maintain the status quo. If you can't see this then you are not looking.

[Johnny Punani2]

Originally posted by Dr. D

The two-party political system (all the rage this century) is NON-representative and serves only to maintain the status quo. If you can't see this then you are not looking.

:stupid:

Oh yeah? Why don't you visit Italy or another country with a multi-party system and see how well that works...

[Om]

Well, someone needs to post this right about now:

"Many forms of government have been tried, and will be tried in this world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed, it has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government except all those other forms that have been tried from time to time."

Winston Churchill (House of Commons, 11 Nov. 1947)

[Art]

Well, this ought to be fun .

"The most charitable thing that can be said is that this is a deliberately misleading statement. No one was 'literally turned away'. Some unknown number chose not to vote, through their own fault."

It's not a misleading statement in the slightest. The networks declared Gore the winner of the state of Florida while a sizable portion of the state was still allowed to vote. The announcement, according to those listening, was enough to convince any number of voters not to bother voting, as the decision was already "final" according to all news broadcasts. It wasn't their fault the news reported Gore won the state of Florida while heavy Republican territory was still on the clock in a state that was ultimately decided by the thinest of margins. It was the fault of the news for reporting a final outcome before the outcome was final.

And all news organizations have addressed their error for future elections and will no longer falsely report election outcomes while polls are open as this has the direct impact on voters of making them not want to bother. In a society where too many people already ask how their one vote really matters, what do you think those people are going to generally think when every news organization -- except the AP -- announces Gore has already won the state in which they still have the right to vote.

Thousands of voters were literally turned away from voting because to them, the election was over. And, it happens that a large portion of these voters are traditionally Republican, though, to be fair, any number of Democrats were likewise turned away.

"The widely-cited 'thousands upon thousands' seems ridiculously high when the erroneous announcements came about 15 minutes before polls were to close. I realize this has become accepted lore, especially within the Republican Party. But it defies common sense, and in any event is significantly less than the clearly-intended Gore votes tossed in the butterfly ballot mess."

Interestingly, a state like Michigan, which Gore won, was declared a Gore victory while Bush had more votes actually counted. Ohio, a state Bush won with some comfort, was kept as too close to call all night. Florida, a state actually decided by a razor thin margin, was declared for Gore WHILE polls were still open in heavily Republican country. After the election the media agreed it erred in how it reported the election and any reasonable person will tell you their reporting had a very large impact on the elections in general.

Certainly a far larger number of voters in Florida and the rest of the Central time zone who would have considered voting had the election essentially not been declared over by all major media -- except the AP -- than were "confused" by the butterfly ballots or who were confused by the scanned ballots where they filled in the hole for Bush/Gore and then also wrote the name on the write in box, out of confusion.

People like talking about the undervotes in this election, but NO ONE mentions the overvotes which were more numerous in more affluent, more conservative counties where people were confused by THOSE ballots because they copied one candidate's name in the write in box as well as filling in that candidate's name in the circle for him.

But, the difference between these morons and the morons who were turned away by false media reports is that one group of idiots relied upon factual reports that turned out not to be factual and the other group were just too stupid to be taken all that seriously.

"this is America. It's your duty to speak English". Really? Here and I thought it was our duty to vote. A duty apparently shirked by thousands of supposed patriots who nearly cost their man the election. "

It's your duty to speak English. Absolutely. You're in this country. English is not the second language. If you want to deal with life here, you need to speak the language.

"Boy do I hear lots of wild proclamations about how those who are too stupid to vote (can't understand the ballot, can't read English, etc) should not be allowed to. But some Republicans chose not to vote when they thought their man had lost. Stupid, eh? "

Some Republicans and some Democrats were turned from the polls by false declarations of victory for one candidate in a state large enough to impact the entire central time zone as winning that state essentially sealed Gore's victory. These people weren't stupid because they were born that way. They were stupid because they trusted the media to be fair, objective and factual. I'm sure those folks won't get burned the same way again.

"I could understand if they thought Bush had won and their vote wasn't needed. But especially if I think my man has lost a close race, you can make darn sure I'll make my vote count at least as a symbolic measure. But these same people want to somehow blame the Democrats because their own supporters deserted them out of stupidity? I don't see it."

Jimbo, they were told Gore had won. It wasn't a probable thing. It was every news outlet other than the AP declaring the victor as Gore. How are folks of either party supposed to know their votes still count when the media has already told you who won and, honestly, the media had never been that wrong before, and, had never been so clearly interested in shaping the election as they were that night.

Though a large portion of the news media is liberal leaning, doesn't mean the Democrats are to blame for the media bias that allowed false reporting that may have impacted the votes of Democrats and Republicans alike throughout the Central time zone. This is a media error.

The Democrats were not complicit in this terrible display of biased reporting. So, no one blamed them for this. That the vast majority of the news media lean left just gives a playful association you can wield with some persuasion.

[The Evil Genius]

Speak english to vote in the USA?

Hmmm...think literacy tests were tried before...oh yeah...what was the problem with those?

Oh yeah they kept a certain minority from voting. Literacy tests for voters used to be widespread. They were used in some parts of New York State, for example, until 1970. In the Jim Crow South, however, they were much abused to prevent blacks from voting. Literacy tests were sometimes waived altogether for illiterate whites, while a black voter might be asked to recite and interpret a page of Chaucer. The Voting Rights Act of 1965 put an end to these abuses (well kind of). While it did not explicitly outlaw literacy tests, it only made them subject to federal clearance, the bad publicity generated by all the unfair practices drove literacy tests out of fashion. Is this what we really want to go back to?

C'mon you close mided people here. This is America. I thought we prided ourselves on diversity. Guess not.

I have always contended that not voting is actually a form of voting. By not voting, one is saying that either they don't care, they do care but don't know the issues/candidates well enough to make a choice, or that they simply are fed up with the system. Those who ***** about only having 50% turnout should be glad that we have a system in which voting isnt mandatory or in which the masses arent voting the party line - well at least not any more they arent.

I just posted the article because I thought it was funny. Finally, the government (well the Justice Department at least) publicly recognizes that extreme voter fraud happens. Something that joe schmoe (especially joe schmoe minority) has been talking about

for centuries.

[The Evil Genius]

It's your duty to speak English. Absolutely. You're in this country. English is not the second language. If you want to deal with life here, you need to speak the language.

Tell that to the remaining Native Americans who were here before any english speaking bloke set foot on this land.

Tell that to all the peoples who landed on Ellis Island and migrated to the pockets of America that spoke their langauge in the late 1800's and early 1900's.

Tell that to the people who were brought over on ships as slaves for about 150 years of our history.

Tell that to the people who escape tyranny elsewhere in the world and come to this land which supposedly is a bastion of diversity.

Finally, please show me WHERE in the constitution, the Bill or Rights, or any other State Laws and Regulations where it says its my duty to speak english and only english.

I mean, whats the big deal here? Is it that hard to have any compassion with people who stuggle to learn a second language? Why force them to be ignorant of whats going on in their town/city/state while they learn the langauge? If we school kids for 13 years in English - why should we expect immigrants to learn English overnight?

[Funkyalligator]

I find it really ironic that Republicans(Conservatives_ are ****ing about non-english speaking voters. Recent studies by pollsters have indicated that Hispanic voters tend to vote Republican. This is one reason that Bush was pushing for blanket amnesty for illegal immigrants(spanish speaking ones mainly) before Sept. 11