radagast5 Posted November 19, 2004 Share Posted November 19, 2004 Tough question. Downright heretical of me to even ask it. But this 3-6 record is all on the offense. Michael Wilbon had an interesting stat in a piece the other day, stating that if the Redskins could figure out a way to have scored one measely field goal per game more than they have, their record would be 6-3. One FG. Thus far, we've been quick to dole out the accolades (richly deserved) to Gregg Williams, who has taken an apparently undertalented defense, and turned them into a legitimate Top 5 squad. He's managed to do it with a spate of injuries to some pretty key players, as well. And we've shelled out a fair amount of criticism (often over-simplified) at Joe Gibbs for his inability to get anything out of the offense. But why Gibbs? He's not the coordinator, Don Breaux is. He's not even Gregg Williams' offensive counterpart. That title is held by Joe Bugel. So, I'm wondering, why has there been so comparatively little criticism levied at Bugel? —He's the Assistant Head Coach: Offense. An odd title, yes, but if we're to assume that he has quite a bit of say as far as the design and execution of the offense goes, then he's culpable. —He's the Offensive Line coach, too. And, yes, losing Jansen was a big blow. However, throughout Brunell's struggles, the offensive line has been guilty of some very lackluster play. Bugel's "Dirtbags" commit far too many penalties, and they allow far too much pressure down-to-down and consequently way too many sacks. (This figures to get worse with Ramsey who doesn't have the pocket sense Brunell has, or maybe I should say, has too much pocket courage. <g>) Most worrisome is the fact that they allow all this pressure while being in max-protect a sizable portion of each game. I guess the question here is: is Bugel the issue here. And if he is, do you think Joe Gibbs would fire him? Perhaps Jack Burns is guilty here, too, and Stan Hixon's absence (for certainly worthwhile reasons) may have contributed to the WRs' spotty play. Can these heads roll in the offseason? As an aside, I'm curious to see if our receivers' case of the droppsies goes away with Ramsey in there. This is not an excuse, but I'm wondering if they simply didn't adjust well to the reverse-spin of a Lefty QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbooma Posted November 19, 2004 Share Posted November 19, 2004 he doesn't have his #1 OT and our over priced gaurd is just that way over priced :doh: how is this his fault, he has not RT on the team and his backups are rookies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isifhan Posted November 19, 2004 Share Posted November 19, 2004 Should he be fired...after less than one season? Honestly some of the people on this board have their expectations set so high I wonder if you'll ever be happy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smashmowf Posted November 19, 2004 Share Posted November 19, 2004 Originally posted by radagast5 Tough question. Downright heretical of me to even ask it. But this 3-6 record is all on the offense. Michael Wilbon had an interesting stat in a piece the other day, stating that if the Redskins could figure out a way to have scored one measely field goal per game more than they have, their record would be 6-3. One FG. Thus far, we've been quick to dole out the accolades (richly deserved) to Gregg Williams, who has taken an apparently undertalented defense, and turned them into a legitimate Top 5 squad. He's managed to do it with a spate of injuries to some pretty key players, as well. And we've shelled out a fair amount of criticism (often over-simplified) at Joe Gibbs for his inability to get anything out of the offense. But why Gibbs? He's not the coordinator, Don Breaux is. He's not even Gregg Williams' offensive counterpart. That title is held by Joe Bugel. So, I'm wondering, why has there been so comparatively little criticism levied at Bugel? —He's the Assistant Head Coach: Offense. An odd title, yes, but if we're to assume that he has quite a bit of say as far as the design and execution of the offense goes, then he's culpable. —He's the Offensive Line coach, too. And, yes, losing Jansen was a big blow. However, throughout Brunell's struggles, the offensive line has been guilty of some very lackluster play. Bugel's "Dirtbags" commit far too many penalties, and they allow far too much pressure down-to-down and consequently way too many sacks. (This figures to get worse with Ramsey who doesn't have the pocket sense Brunell has, or maybe I should say, has too much pocket courage. <g>) Most worrisome is the fact that they allow all this pressure while being in max-protect a sizable portion of each game. I guess the question here is: is Bugel the issue here. And if he is, do you think Joe Gibbs would fire him? Perhaps Jack Burns is guilty here, too, and Stan Hixon's absence (for certainly worthwhile reasons) may have contributed to the WRs' spotty play. Can these heads roll in the offseason? As an aside, I'm curious to see if our receivers' case of the droppsies goes away with Ramsey in there. This is not an excuse, but I'm wondering if they simply didn't adjust well to the reverse-spin of a Lefty QB. Excellent point....but I'm willing to bet that you will get ATTACKED on this thread for bringing this up.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrfriedm Posted November 19, 2004 Share Posted November 19, 2004 No Bugel should not be fired. But you should be clowned for asking such a stu*** question (IMO) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubba9497 Posted November 19, 2004 Share Posted November 19, 2004 :doh: after 9 games? OMG I can't believe anyone even considered asking this. The OL has improved over last season. The Run blocking is very good. Pass Blocking is still having break downs. But it takes time. It takes players, your starting RT is a 41 year old guard. Your starting center is a retread. Building a winning team takes time people. wholesale changes, and knee jerk impatient reactions just makes the hole deeper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manichispanic Posted November 19, 2004 Share Posted November 19, 2004 i dont want to turn this into a brunell bashing, but i think im going to have to. Ramsey could've gotten us, at the very least those 3 points. That doesnt mean just by putting Ramsey in wouldve made us on par w/Colts offense. I want to see us go way from max protect a little bit, not necessarily the 11 wr sets spurrier sent out, just a little less conservative on offense. can't really pin this on Bugel,as you could easily find other targets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TXREDSKINS44 Posted November 19, 2004 Share Posted November 19, 2004 I think that would be jumping the gun a bit!!! At least let him get his best linemen back!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang Posted November 19, 2004 Share Posted November 19, 2004 No, this team needs one thing above all else.. continuity. The same coach from one year to the next for a few years... try to build some cohesion. (When Gregg Williams said basically the same thing in saying he'd be back next year, I practically fell out of my chair from happiness) Bugel's unit has struggled, but we know he's capable, not some incompetent boob. He's working with what was given to him. We also know that the line we have can be capable. I know Thomas has struggled, but he's not struggled in the past, and it stands to reason he will regain his form. I have to wonder how much of Thomas' problems have come due to having the guys to his immediate left and right not playing very well. Dockery is young, and needs obvious work.. especially on his footwork,, when he pulls it's about as graceful as a hippo. . We absolutely need a center right now.. it should be way up near the top of any offseason priorities. You could say it's the weakest position on the entire team. Jansen's been out, and the backups have not played up to his level. (A tall order for any RT) Bugel has earned his tenure. He's also earned our patience. ~Bang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skins0128 Posted November 19, 2004 Share Posted November 19, 2004 Yeah, he and Joe Gibbs should get canned. They are too old and out of touch with football. What this team needs right now is some turnover in the coaching staff. We have not had NEARLY enough of that of late. /sarcasm :doh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah Posted November 19, 2004 Share Posted November 19, 2004 Bang pretty much said it all. BTW Bang, I watched your latest cartoon. Classic. Of course, it was just as funny having you describe it to me at Hogfest too. Had me laughing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfbovey Posted November 19, 2004 Share Posted November 19, 2004 Bugel is not the offensive coordinator and he's not to blame for the offenses lack of production. Gibbs calls the plays and Gibbs is the one that picked up Brunell and decided to play him for so long, even though he was struggling big time. Gibbs has made the right adjustements though even though it came way too late. The players have to take some responsibility around here for once as well. Dropped passes don't help the cause, stupid penalties... missed blocks. All those have contributed and all are boneheaded acts by players, not the coaches. It's a new system, and I agree with Bang, keep it around and let it develop for once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ntotoro Posted November 19, 2004 Share Posted November 19, 2004 I agree with the above posts. The last thing we need is more turnover. We have basically 2/5ths of an OL playing well at any given time (Thomas & Samuels). Samuels is still getting back to form, we have no center and Dockery needs more work than anyone originally thought. Nevermind the fact that our starting RT is out. Buges is doing what he can with what he has. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC_Skins Posted November 19, 2004 Share Posted November 19, 2004 :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulldog Posted November 19, 2004 Share Posted November 19, 2004 The Redskins offensive line has disappointed everyone. Some decisions that were made in the offseason were indeed questionable. The decision to keep Kenyatta Jones at RT hurt the offense the first half of the season. Once we knew he couldn't play we were stuck without other options. Ray Brown at 42 was supposed to be insurance inside at OG where he can still be effective. Putting him out at RT is a move based on emergency rather than any sound planning. And we got to this point because Bugel decided we didn't need to find a veteran backup during the offseason, this despite Jones' checkered past both on and off the field. Then you can look at what has happened at TE. Walter Rasby was signed and given a decent sized bonus and then unceremoniously released as well halfway through the season. Evidently this was another miscalculation on the personnel side. You add in the Fred Baxter saga where Baxter claims he told the Redskins his knee was not yet 100% when he was signed (and was subsequently cut when it flaired up again) as a move to replace Rasby and overall the management of the OL hasn't looked pretty. The other disappointing factor on the OL is the failure of Derrick Dockery to show much improvement as a pass protector. He was a liability vs. the pass last year and is again this season. You would have thought Bugel and Co. could help Dock to improve his technique and ability to hold up in the passing game a bit better than in 2003. It will be interesting to see what happens with the OL in the offseason. Will we keep Samuels? What are we going to do at center? Do we need to look to replace Dockery at OG? Is either Molinaro or Wilson in our future plans? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clubisyohankovic Posted November 19, 2004 Share Posted November 19, 2004 No. I think that we are so used to coaches getting fired after one down season. We're conditioned to expect it. I would love to see the entire staff back next year. Continuity.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reaganaut Posted November 19, 2004 Share Posted November 19, 2004 Bugel clearly is not getting it done, but he gets one more season after this. If we still have the woes we have now, he will likely leave on his own. Ramsey, interestingly, has commented that this line is much better than last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skins1972 Posted November 19, 2004 Share Posted November 19, 2004 What is wrong with some people... the first year has not even ended and already you want to fire people.. geezus man the reason we have been sucking in the past 12 years is because of this attitude. You have to chemistry and right now this team is not in sink, they will be next year... This is what I think about this post:puke: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlsbadd Posted November 19, 2004 Share Posted November 19, 2004 Perhaps not having John Hall healthy has a bit more to do with Field goals than Buges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor 36 Posted November 19, 2004 Share Posted November 19, 2004 Honestly, none of the coaching staff is going anywhere, unless they CHOOSE to leave. And, they shouldn't leave. Most of these guys are just starting to get back in to the NFL swing of things. They need time to gel, just like players do. And why is it that we always look at the coaches? Let's take a look at the players as well. Buges has done pretty well for what he has. Those of you who are disappointed must have expected this team to be hoisting the Lambardi Trophy this January. Some people need to set realistic expectations, such as we WILL be in the post season next year. But only if we keep our current coaching staff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHUBAKAH Posted November 19, 2004 Share Posted November 19, 2004 Quite amazing how benching Brunell has opened the eyes of many people here. For that reason, I am glad he is on the bench. It seems to have opened the eyes of many on this board. On topic :doh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denverdan Posted November 19, 2004 Share Posted November 19, 2004 "This figures to get worse with Ramsey who doesn't have the pocket sense Brunell has" Give me a break, I guess you call running out of the pocket on every single play instead of steppin up, pocket sense. Did you watch any games last year? do you remember the line? Lets just fire everyone and start over yet again, its worked great so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cphil006 Posted November 19, 2004 Share Posted November 19, 2004 Originally posted by radagast5 Tough question. Downright heretical of me to even ask it. But this 3-6 record is all on the offense. Michael Wilbon had an interesting stat in a piece the other day, stating that if the Redskins could figure out a way to have scored one measely field goal per game more than they have, their record would be 6-3. One FG. Thus far, we've been quick to dole out the accolades (richly deserved) to Gregg Williams, who has taken an apparently undertalented defense, and turned them into a legitimate Top 5 squad. He's managed to do it with a spate of injuries to some pretty key players, as well. And we've shelled out a fair amount of criticism (often over-simplified) at Joe Gibbs for his inability to get anything out of the offense. But why Gibbs? He's not the coordinator, Don Breaux is. He's not even Gregg Williams' offensive counterpart. That title is held by Joe Bugel. So, I'm wondering, why has there been so comparatively little criticism levied at Bugel? —He's the Assistant Head Coach: Offense. An odd title, yes, but if we're to assume that he has quite a bit of say as far as the design and execution of the offense goes, then he's culpable. —He's the Offensive Line coach, too. And, yes, losing Jansen was a big blow. However, throughout Brunell's struggles, the offensive line has been guilty of some very lackluster play. Bugel's "Dirtbags" commit far too many penalties, and they allow far too much pressure down-to-down and consequently way too many sacks. (This figures to get worse with Ramsey who doesn't have the pocket sense Brunell has, or maybe I should say, has too much pocket courage. <g>) Most worrisome is the fact that they allow all this pressure while being in max-protect a sizable portion of each game. I guess the question here is: is Bugel the issue here. And if he is, do you think Joe Gibbs would fire him? Perhaps Jack Burns is guilty here, too, and Stan Hixon's absence (for certainly worthwhile reasons) may have contributed to the WRs' spotty play. Can these heads roll in the offseason? As an aside, I'm curious to see if our receivers' case of the droppsies goes away with Ramsey in there. This is not an excuse, but I'm wondering if they simply didn't adjust well to the reverse-spin of a Lefty QB. What about Don Breaux? Is his offense out-dated? The last time he was O-Cord. was 1999 Carolina and they went 1-15...I do think this thought is premature. They definely need another season. Look at the Chargers and Marty-ball. Dew Brees is a superstar now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfbovey Posted November 19, 2004 Share Posted November 19, 2004 Originally posted by Reaganaut Bugel clearly is not getting it done, but he gets one more season after this. If we still have the woes we have now, he will likely leave on his own. Ramsey, interestingly, has commented that this line is much better than last year. Isn't this a contradiction then? Bugel not getting the job done, yet the line has improved over last year... which one is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prophet Posted November 19, 2004 Share Posted November 19, 2004 I thought the Offensive line problems was Spurriers doing..... :doh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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