When does a fan of a 3-6 team have a right to be excited?

[Art]

Every year when I mentally calculate the season is largely over -- in terms of being competitive for the playoffs -- I enjoy a few stiff drinks and quietly pack away much of the passion for football in general for the remainder of the year, watching mostly out of curiosity and a simple escape from the demands of wife .

The loss against the Bengals was, in my mind, the game that really ends the season's greater hopes. It is that loss -- one where we were outclassed much of the game by their defense and half the game by their offense -- that would usually cause me to watch for the sake of interest and hope for the future rather than passion and dreams in the present.

Here we stand, 3-6, and I can't help but be enthused.

I don't know if Patrick Ramsey is the answer for the future. Watching his recent performances, I worry he's not. I can not believe he has taken such a dramatic direction toward being a DUMB QB making the DUMB throw which is not something you've seen from him in most of his first two years.

In part, though, I'm enthused because I don't really know what Ramsey allows. He's, supposedly, the future. I don't know if he can handle the duty. Increasingly though, with Brunell, I knew, completely, he could not. Therefore, the simple lack of certainty breeds greater interest and allows hope to persist.

We're a 3-6 team, and the simple possibility that we're FINALLY going to get a shot at witnessing the team we MIGHT be for the next few years caused me to put off the stiff drinks and maintain hold on the passion and dreams for this year.

Not that I view it overly plausible we'll be a playoff contender. I don't. I think that's nearly impossible, even if there IS a possibility we could make it at 9-7 or even 8-8. Mostly, I'm enthused because Ramsey is in. The QB of the future is in. And, we'll know RIGHT AWAY what that means for us.

Two HIGHLY difficult road games against the league's top teams will let you know.

If Ramsey looks great or good or even just legitimately solid, regardless of the outcome in either game, we'll have justification to be jazzed about the coming season and years. Conversely, if Ramsey just blows, there'll be something of a sense of dread heading into the offseason.

It's the best of the most positive world and the worst of the most negative world all wrapped up until a seven-game stretch against either good teams or division rivals (all but San Fran) and it's this stretch that feeds the future.

If Ramsey manages to go 4-3 or 5-2 ot 6-1 or 7-0, each step increasing the present hopes as well as future aspirations, we'll be in a frenzy in January, even if we're sitting at home as a 7-9. If we split with Philly, and pull what will be an upset against Pittsburgh or Minnesota, and we take another division game against the Giants or especially Dallas, with Ramsey, you can see the type of future we've been hoping to see.

Just as you will have the future largely torn apart should we go 3-4, 2-5, 1-6 or 0-7 to close the year.

This is a more interesting time to be a Redskin fan than if we'd snuck out a couple of wins against Dallas and Green Bay earlier, yet, knew we were shackled with a QB who limited the top end performance in Brunell -- at least who Brunell appeared to be.

We're facing the toughest teams we'll face in a difficult stretch with our QB of the future. This defines us in a way the first 9 games could not. These last seven games ARE who we are, where the first 9 games were mostly irrelevant.

Success now, even mild success at 4-3 with this schedule, gives the whole season meaning. Gives the future clarity. Failure now, of course, is equally as potent as a negative focus. Ramsey is now a third-year pro. He's being put into the most difficult situation a young player at his position can be placed in with these two road games.

You can't protect him from showing who he is any longer.

This IS the time to see what he is. If he cracks under the tremendous pressure against clearly superior teams, then at least we know what we do not have and what we need to acquire in this QB driven league. If he flourishes under the pressure, adding a dimension to the offense Brunell couldn't bring, surprising these difficult opponents and turning a horrible offense into something average or better, each game will mean more than it would for a team in a playoff run.

Because each game means something for next year, good or bad.

And that's reason to be excited.

[footballhenry]

well said man....although I think a 3-4 finish would be good considering our schedule...I really do....that shows progress in my eyes seeing as how we started 3-6......but well hafta wait and see....im a big ramsey fan but i dont see us beating phili...but u never know

[afparent]

Personally, no matter what the record, I will tune in and watch and hope the Skins win. Obviously my enthusiasm is dampened by our record, but you never know in the NFL so until we are mathematically eliminated I always have hope

[inmate running the asylum]

I'm not sure if Ramsey is the long term answer at QB or not, because he hasn't started enough games yet for me to make a determination.

But on the positive side, I like his TD-to-INT ratio -- last year it was 14 to 9 -- which indicates to me that as a young QB he can read defenses.

But on the negative side is what I call the Rob Johnson syndrome -- Ramsey's lack of pocket awareness and propensity to take unnecessary sacks when he should throw the ball away. I mentioned this last year and now Ramsey is in his 3rd season and is not a rookie anymore, but is still taking too many sacks. It seems to me that he should at least have broken this bad habit by now, if he's ever going to break it.

Rob Johnson of course played a decade and NEVER did overcome this and consequently was a failure most of his career.

So I guess only time will tell with Ramsey.

P.S. I might also add that Ramsey has already taken 7 sacks in his limited amount of play. And along with too many sacks, its inevitable but there will be too many fumbles. They kind of go hand-in-hand. Remember Tony Banks?

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Art, that's a good post.

The other thing that is really making me excited is the extremely likely scenario where we go into this offseason with a lot of our roster and our entire coaching staff intact.

That hasn't happened since the 1997-1998 offseason I don't think.

From that season on, we either changed key personnel or changed some part of our coaching staff in the offseason.

[Art]

Originally posted by TD_washingtonredskins

Art, that's a good post.

The other thing that is really making me excited is the extremely likely scenario where we go into this offseason with a lot of our roster and our entire coaching staff intact.

That hasn't happened since the 1997-1998 offseason I don't think.

From that season on, we either changed key personnel or changed some part of our coaching staff in the offseason.

I like the bulk of our roster. I like the strength we've shown on defense and we will only get stronger with another year in the system, and greater health. I like the receivers we have. I like Cooley. I like the offensive line WITH Jansen. I generally think this team is largely good enough to be a very good team.

But, this is a QB driven league right now. And, no matter how much continuity we have, if we can't complete better than 50 percent of our passes, it won't matter. The hole at QB becomes too big an obstacle to overcome. This is why the excitement of seeing Ramsey get a TRUE test creates as much anticipation for me as it does.

The excitement can lead to a pleasurable outcome or one filled with dread. I don't know which. I just know we'll know in a couple of weeks .

[sonsofwashington]

Even if we lose our our future could still be bright. I mean, afterall, we tend to lose some games that we certainly have a chance to win. If we lose those, but put up a gutsy performance then hope is still there even though our record does not proclaim that. Anyway, even if Ramsey loses most of his games if he hangs tuff he deserves another year as the starter. Let him KNOW he is the starter, build a starter mentality. Lord knows his problems are all upstairs because he has the physical abilities.

[jrfriedm]

:doh: I'm just disgusted by this team (again) I can't believe that we are 3-6, that is just horriable.

[Chris 44]

I think the key to the rest of this season rides not only on Ramsey but on the O line. Every other position can be viewed as good, or at least solid enough that we can win games with. Ramsey is a question right now, but I fear that with the way the line has pass blocked thus far we may not get a good/fair gage of where he stands. I hope that if given reasonable time to look down field and make decisions Ramsey will shine. Hopefully by establishing the run early and not falling behind we can do just that. Pass protection in my opinion is our week link on what could otherwise be a good team.

[Aharter]

Art,

I agree.

I often take myself back to the second game last season. No Vick. But there was Ramsey. There was Coles. And the pair put on a show that Keion Carpenter has probably drank out of his system.

Ramsey was impeccable that day, perhaps giving us the only glimpse of how Spurrier's offense would work in the pros (not including preseason).

I can't remember his stats. I don't want to look them up. But I do recall a pretty little fade pass to L. Coles that clinched the victory for my beloved team. I jumped out of my seat. I danced in a circle. I told Ramsey, "that's what I'm talking about right there." And at that moment, he was my quarterback. The Redskins quarterback.

Fast forward to the Eagles game. (Do you remember who we beat the previous week to set up the showdown?) We trailed by 11 with three minutes to go. Ramsey rallied us. At no moment did I think he wouldn't. A missed two-point conversion with little or no time remaining sealed the defeat. However, I was there with my team, believing on every yard.

But time has a way of changing things.

Soon the protection fell apart. The kid broke his foot. We started to lose. Ramsey's body broke down. More time passed by. Joe Gibbs was hired. The cherry blossoms bloomed. Pat Tillman was killed in action. Mark Brunell was signed.

Somewhere along the way, the left and right turns that led us to today, we forgot about Ramsey and his abilities. We were told he made rookie mistakes. We heard he didn't practice well. We believed that he wasn't experienced enough to lead a Gibbs offense.

Suddenly, he wasn't good enough.

Then the chants came.

Maybe some fans just wanted Brunell out and Ramsey was the only other option. Maybe they had forgotten the strong arm and the heart that pulled him up after so many brutal hits.

But I remembered--that pretty little 19-yard pass to L. Coles over the secondary for a clinching touchdown. The spiral. The raised arms. The trot downfield to hug his receiver.

He's our quarterback again. Just as he was last season. Just as he was the year before.

You said Ramsey is the reason to be excited. Good or bad.

What a perfect statement.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

It IS quite disappointing that these types of threads seem to pop up every November.

Hopefully we have a year where we're still in contention at this point in the season.

[Chris 44]

I'm not saying that Ramsey has to have an immovable wall in front of him in order for him to perfom, but especially in his first few starts he needs to become confident in the team and himself.

[Burgold]

I am of two minds. I hoped for 9-7, but thought this would be a rough year. You can accumulate some rust after 12 years. The fan in me wants to win every bloody game. I still don't think we're out... I'm not sure that we can make much noise, but we can still turn a few heads. More important to me, I see symptoms of us becoming a good team again. Realistically, this year was probably always about next year. If we can hold together and grow... I believe we are well on our way to being a dangerous team next season. We have a special teams for the first time in about seven years. Our defense is dangerous. Offensively, it's a wait and see, but we have the running game and most of the pieces. The passing game... if we can elevate it to average... we will scare a lot of teams.

[ktball74]

JR, honeslty, what did you expect from this team. There is no way anyone could've thought playoffs. If you did, then I think that was an unfair assesment. I mean it shouldn't have been this bad, but our QB was horrible. 7-9 would be a great finish to the season!

[Art]

Originally posted by TD_washingtonredskins

It IS quite disappointing that these types of threads seem to pop up every November.

Hopefully we have a year where we're still in contention at this point in the season.

I don't know about that TD.

Last year the feeling of dread that many of us felt with Brunell still playing was generally felt just by having Spurrier coaching. The obvious nature of how teams were able to force his offense into running plays they could cover and how helpless we seemed as the book on Spurrier's offense developed.

I don't recall a great deal of optimism last year as things got away from us. In fact, this thread doesn't really express much optimism for THIS year. The excitement is that we get to see our future against the current best, on the road, and based a great deal on that, we'll know what we have going forward.

We haven't really known that for some time. In two weeks we could know we are in a world of hurt. Or, we could be drooling with anticipation for next year. It depends on how Ramsey looks against the toughest competition on the road. Whether he can rise to the most extreme challenge he could be given or whether he'll fail completely.

This situation means more to us than even having won a few games despite a lack of QB play.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

I don't know about that TD.

I was very vague.

I guess I was referring to the "looking forward" threads that inevitably pop up in November lately. It's not the threads themselves that bother me (personally I enjoy reading them) but just the fact that, with a couple exceptions, we've been down and out of the playoff hunt by week 8, 9, or 10.

I am just waiting for the year where we go into a mid or late November game at 5-4 or 6-3 or even 4-5 with a realistic shot at a post-season berth.

[denverdan]

I'm excited every single time the Redskins pop off a big run or get the deep ball (Ok no excitement yet on the deep ball) I'm excited every time they get a sack or an INT, everytime they get a good run back on the kick off or the punt, every time they punt or kick off and get a good hit on the runner. I get really really exited when the Redskins throw an INT or fumble or just plain get stuffed. I don't think my excitement ever really stops. I have to watch standing up.

[jrfriedm]

Originally posted by ktball74

JR, honeslty, what did you expect from this team. There is no way anyone could've thought playoffs. If you did, then I think that was an unfair assesment. I mean it shouldn't have been this bad, but our QB was horrible. 7-9 would be a great finish to the season!

I never said that we were going to go to the playoffs, I thought there was a chance of that happening, but I never said that we were going to make it. I just can't believe the poor choices that seem to keep coming up not only this season, but for the past 12. I really thought that this coaching staff and these players could start to turn this ship around, and I still think that they can, but we should have lost five of the games that we did lose and I'm just dissgusted with the whole thing.

[SkinsHokieFan]

Screw it lets just run the table and sneak in

[illone]

I'm excited because McCants will be getting more playing time and he's our only receiver who doesn't drop it all the time.

[radagast5]

Originally posted by Art

Every year when I mentally calculate the season is largely over -- in terms of being competitive for the playoffs -- I enjoy a few stiff drinks and quietly pack away much of the passion for football in general for the remainder of the year, watching mostly out of curiosity and a simple escape from the demands of wife .

The loss against the Bengals was, in my mind, the game that really ends the season's greater hopes. It is that loss -- one where we were outclassed much of the game by their defense and half the game by their offense -- that would usually cause me to watch for the sake of interest and hope for the future rather than passion and dreams in the present.

Here we stand, 3-6, and I can't help but be enthused.

This is a rite of passage for 'Skins fans and it happens, almost like clockwork, every November.

We take the facts, and the stats, and we process them. We kick them around, knead them like a big lump of unbaked bread, and then try to parse them in a way that makes the future look bright.

I'm sick of it. I'm sick of "hope."

Yes, this defense is good. Yes, we have a running game. Yes, this is the NFL where 4-12 teams can win the Super Bowl (and very often do) the following year. And, yes, this will be the first season where almost everything, coaching, offensive/defensive systems, and the roster, will remain the same.

But I'm done with that line of thinking, because the converse is just as easy, and more often valid. This team could be 8-0, every game was winnable. They could be 0-8, too, because every game was equally losable.

Really, how much different is this team, on the bottom line, than Spurrier's? It's heretical to say it, but we're on the fast track to 5-11. This squad is in every game, yes, but does anyone realize that Spurrier v.2003 lost half a dozen games by a touchdown or less?

I want a team that doesn't beat itself with dumb mistakes. (This one, like many that have come before it in D.C., still does that.) I want a team with a coach who comes out with a good game plan. (Don't tell me I was the only one baffled to be throwing vs. the worst run defense in the NFL on Sunday; doesn't that strike a lot of people as remarkably Spurrier-ish?) I want a team whose offense scares people, a team who can come out and get a two touchdown lead at some point. I'm quite tired of an epic struggle to maintain mediocrity.

Art, I don't begrudge you your enthusiasm, or your optimism. But for me, that's an hors d'oeurve. I want meat, red off the bone; no more ****tail shrimp and chilled Riesling.

[Art]

Radagast,

Like you, I want meat, red off the bone. Which is precisely the rationale I outlined for being more enthusiastic about the remaining games this season that I might otherwise be. There is nothing more meaty than the slate of games ahead of us with the QB we have to hope is the answer to the future.

The hope I speak of in this post is a simple hope, and not actually outlined as that great a hope.

The excitement is becasue these next two games, especially, matter in a way they shouldn't for a 3-6 team. They matter for better or for worse in a way that defines this team with extreme clarity.

The enthusiasm isn't born of optimism. It's born of import. That's what these next two games are for us. That's what has delayed the inevitable period of mourning we've had in recent years. Should we look horrible and helpless the next two weeks, the depression will be dark for me. No doubt.

Just as should we look competent and together the next two weeks, the excitement will be meaningful carrying over to next year. An excitement we've had a hard time envisioning from one season to the next in recent years might be impossible not to see in two weeks.

It also might be so ugly in two weeks we fear what is to come.

I don't know which.

I'm excited because with Ramsey we KNOW what we have. This stretch of games will deliver to you a team you seek or a team that delays the meal.

For the record, I do not think it's a great observation from you to express surprise we'd have an early game plan to pass the ball against the Bengals. Cincy is a bad run defense openly vowing to get better. We're a team coming off a pretty good running performance and NOTHING passing performance against the Lions.

It seems very reasonable to me to expect Lewis and the Bengals might ramp up against the run, not expecting an early flurry of passes. It turns out the mistake was more in the execution than in the design against the Bengals as Brunell was no where near the receivers for the most part.

I think it makes perfect sense to anticipate what you expect your opponent to do and create a game plan designed at exploiting that expectation. Then, to adjust as you need. I think it's far to simple to expect a game plan to be designed around current defensive statistical rankings of the opposition.

Easily we could have run six straight times into an 8-man front against the Bengals to start the game and we'd all be saying, "Gosh, Gibbs had to know they'd sell out to stop the run." In fact, almost all of us pointed out we EXPECTED the Bengals to line up to stop our run and force the pass to beat them. So, I think it was pretty smart to open up by seeing if the pass could beat them.

It didn't, and we lost.

Execution more than poor planning.

[bulldog]

8 games is enough time to judge where Ramsey is right now. it is a tough schedule as Gibbs admitted yesterday in naming Patrick the starter, however, on a 3-6 team you HAVE to take this opportunity as it is presented.

hopefully this time next year we WILL be 6-3 and in the hunt for the NFC East.

this team has some holes but a lot fewer than in past seasons.

we have purged ourselves of the Wuerffels and Trung Canidates and David Lovernes, players that were marginal NFLers.

certain holes are due to injury and the return of Daniels, Jansen and Hall will fill a number.

we need to re-evaluate Dockery at OG and Raymer at OC. we need to re-evaluate Gardner at WR and the status of the blocking tight ends.

we need to re-evaluate what we are getting out of the DE position in terms of pure pass rush. Daniels is fine if paired with a good rushman on the other side.

[The Sisko]

I tend to agree with you Art on the feeling of excitement at what our future could portend. However I would have to disagree that should Ramsey not look good down the stretch that I'll be discouraged. As I mentioned before, it took Bress, Hasselbeck, Carr and others 3 seasons before they finally figured things out. After 7 1/2 games this season Ramsey will have roughly 1.5 seasons under his belt. I won't start to feel he can't do it until mid/late next season when he hasn't shown any improvement.

We have the makings of a pretty good team with a few glaring holes. If we fill those holes at LG/C/DE and Ramsey develops as he could, we could be scary good in a year's time. Add to that the fact that the NFC is looking pretty weak these days and we could very well be a "Super" team in a year's time. This is what really has me excited for what the future holds.

[ljer]

The only time I'll start believing in this team is when they actually show me something ON THE FIELD.

Until then, it's the same old, same old.