SnyderShrugged Posted November 4, 2004 Share Posted November 4, 2004 Wow, getting snippy in here. I still want to know what the reason that they don't have health care is. Seriously! I don't understand! The people have jobs, I think that was established. Is their employer not offerring health care? It was mentioned that the plan was too expensive too. So that must mean that the uninsured must be the working poor. What about medicare? Lastly, No one can be refused helath care in an emergency. If the people have a major fever, can't they just go to a clinic or emergency room? I'm confused, I guess. I have a portion of my pay go towards my family's plan and I also save an addittional $25 a week for deductable and other uncovered health care expenses. I am very far from rich and we are a one income family. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMat184 Posted November 4, 2004 Share Posted November 4, 2004 Originally posted by TheDane :doh: A statement like that professes plain ignorance on the topic of malpractice. not as ignorant as some of the right wing garbage I've read concerning healthcare from well privileged persons to whom it does not concern..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnyderShrugged Posted November 4, 2004 Share Posted November 4, 2004 Originally posted by TMat184 not as ignorant as some of the right wing garbage I've read concerning healthcare from well privileged persons to whom it does not concern..... Do you have health care? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnyderShrugged Posted November 4, 2004 Share Posted November 4, 2004 Oh! Now I get it!! TM is a troll who can't say anything to add to a reasonable debate. He is only good for spewing vitriolic rhetoric with no true evidence of fact. Got it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG Posted November 4, 2004 Share Posted November 4, 2004 Originally posted by TMat184 not as ignorant as some of the right wing garbage I've read concerning healthcare from well privileged persons to whom it does not concern..... Asssuming anyone is over-priviledged in this thread does nothing to argue your case. Neither does name-calling. You aren't doing your point justice. Yes health care is expensive. I personally don't have it because I cannot afford it right now. I am one of those people you should be arguing about. I have gone to school, have established myslef out side of the cushion of my parents and had a job for several years that provided me with health insurance. Now that I am sef-employed and freelance for a living, I choose to cut healthcare from my expenses. That alone can go to paying my electricity every month. The last few tiems I have gotten sick, I have gone to an ambulatory clinic. Got cheap meds, got a good diagnosis and am fine with that. God forbid I have a serious accident, but I will go on this way until I make more money. However, if a portion of the money that I have to pay towards social security goes towards some sort of coverage, I think that is about as affordable and logical as you can get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Montilar Posted November 4, 2004 Share Posted November 4, 2004 I'm 20 years old living out on my own. Many of you at this point in your lives can't relate to the struggle young people face today I'm calling BULL on this. I remember what it was like being 18, 20, 24. And essentually living paycheck to paycheck after graduating and getting a job. As has been said, it's a matter of priorities. You don't NEED a brand new, fancy, hopped up hot rod or sports car. But tell that to someone your age..... (my niece just turned 18, graduated high school and has a part time job, repeat PART TIME job..... first thing she does is buy a brand spanking new honda. ) gotta look cool..... Who ends up paying for it? And she absolutely has to go out partying all the time. Got to see those movies and clubs...... got to have new cloths; "can't wear that one anymore, I've worn it twice; it's old and worn out now....." You don't need to be hitting the clubs and partying day in and day out. that's a luxury as well. You don't need a fancy stereo system; that's a luxury. You don't need that plasma screen tv..... And so on. Priorities.... Sacrifices as well. Living within your means and budgeting your salary. but that's incomprehensible to most young folks. Determining the "need" vs. the "luxeries". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnyderShrugged Posted November 4, 2004 Share Posted November 4, 2004 Originally posted by IAMBG Asssuming anyone is over-priviledged in this thread does nothing to argue your case. Neither does name-calling. You aren't doing your point justice. Yes health care is expensive. I personally don't have it because I cannot afford it right now. I am one of those people you should be arguing about. I have gone to school, have established myslef out side of the cushion of my parents and had a job for several years that provided me with health insurance. Now that I am sef-employed and freelance for a living, I choose to cut healthcare from my expenses. That alone can go to paying my electricity every month. The last few tiems I have gotten sick, I have gone to an ambulatory clinic. Got cheap meds, got a good diagnosis and am fine with that. God forbid I have a serious accident, but I will go on this way until I make more money. However, if a portion of the money that I have to pay towards social security goes towards some sort of coverage, I think that is about as affordable and logical as you can get. Great post and great mentality!!! :notworthy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted November 4, 2004 Share Posted November 4, 2004 Im still waiting for someone to show me where our Constitutin says the Govt is responsibl for providing inexpnsive healthcare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsHokieFan Posted November 4, 2004 Share Posted November 4, 2004 I am 22, own my own business and pay for my own healthcare. Costs me about 130 dollars a month for some real comprehensive coverage. Get specialists as well as prescription drugs. If you have a part time job that is one week worth of pay. If you make 10 dollars an hour full time, that is a day and a half of work. Not too hard to find and afford buddy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaFunky1 Posted November 4, 2004 Share Posted November 4, 2004 Originally posted by TMat184 not as ignorant as some of the right wing garbage I've read concerning healthcare from well privileged persons to whom it does not concern..... I'm right wing, unemployed, disabled under the ADA, and I don't want discounted gov't subsidized insurance. I don't want anything to do with government subsidized health insurance. I'm so well off, my newest vehicle is 10 yrs old and has 280K miles on it. My next newest is 12 years old and has over 180K miles on it. I had to empty my retirement account inpart due to my disability - I had to finish college so I could get a job - got it and couldn't handle the physical nature of the job, so instead of crying ADA - which I could have been accomodated - I chose unemployment. It is amazing the number of jobs available right now for those who want to work. I lived on my own at 23... bought a house and worked my tail off, so much so at 29 I became disabled. I had insurance through work because I went out and got a job that offered insurance. When I landed my newest job... guess what? It had insurance. My next job will have insurance benefits as well. Why? Because I'm looking for a job with that benefit. If your job doesn't offer it... find one that does or get the skills necessary to be able to find that job. Quit crying about what you don't have, be thankful for what you do have, and if you don't like things the way they are, get off your butt and change things for the better. It's time to grow up and take responsibility for yourself. Peace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iheartskins Posted November 4, 2004 Share Posted November 4, 2004 Originally posted by SkinsHokieFan I am 22, own my own business and pay for my own healthcare. Costs me about 130 dollars a month for some real comprehensive coverage. Get specialists as well as prescription drugs. If you have a part time job that is one week worth of pay. If you make 10 dollars an hour full time, that is a day and a half of work. Not too hard to find and afford buddy So because it's true for you, it must be true for everyone else? Well, my sister, who just got married, healthy, employed and is 30, pays $250 a month. Before she was married it was $500 a month. Does that mean that everyone is in her shoes? No, obviously not. Not every one is in the same position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnyderShrugged Posted November 4, 2004 Share Posted November 4, 2004 Somehow I think that TMAT will not be responding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duncan Posted November 4, 2004 Share Posted November 4, 2004 Originally posted by TMat184 Oh thats right, hes a loser so thats ok??? From http://www.bestdiscounthealthcare.com/ Programs Start As Low As $84.95 / Month Sorry, but if you can't afford $85 a month you ARE a loser. I didn't have insurance throughout my 20's and if I got really sick I would pay cash for the doctor visit. I once went to a cardiologist and paid $80, certainly not a crippling expense. I paid cash for the dentist. Pull your pants up, turn your hat around, put down the bong and work harder. You are really embarrassing yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TODD Posted November 4, 2004 Share Posted November 4, 2004 Haha. Both are great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister Happy Posted November 4, 2004 Share Posted November 4, 2004 Originally posted by TMat184 I'm 20 years old living out on my own. Many of you at this point in your lives can't relate to the struggle young people face today. I'm insulted because you all insinuated my friends must not have jobs and thats why they can't afford healthcare. Truth of the matter is, the cost of living is so rediculously high thats its tough to afford it all. I'm a young man going through it, I guess I shouldn't expect you to understand. There are options. You can get another job to pay for your healthcare. You can move to a less expensive city. You can cut out all of your non-essential expenses, such as cable TV, cell phones, car, the internet access and computer you used to type that post. Universities often offer very cheap health insurance for their students. That would be the best option. I'm sure you could even get financial aid to pay for it. My guess is that it's not that you can't afford healthcare. It's that you choose to sacrifice healthcare for other "priorities." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iheartskins Posted November 4, 2004 Share Posted November 4, 2004 Originally posted by Montilar [...]Priorities.... Sacrifices as well. Living within your means and budgeting your salary. but that's incomprehensible to most young folks. Determining the "need" vs. the "luxuries". I totally agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted November 4, 2004 Share Posted November 4, 2004 Yep. How many people without healthcare have phones? Cars? Cable? Bill Maher had a great comment once. "Poor people in America are fat" Im not trying to equate poor=no healthcare or anything else. Just an example of how we tend to prioritize the wrong things in life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Tater Posted November 4, 2004 Share Posted November 4, 2004 Originally posted by TC4 The reason that health care in the US is so damn high can be summed up in two words: TORT LAWYERS!!!! They drive up the costs because of the tens of millions that get paid out for lawsuits with huge settlements that trot lawyers win and thus, drive up insurance rates so high that force both doctors and hospitals to raise their rates to pay for high insurance premiums to stay in business. And if Jonh Kerry had won, you would see a lot more of that kinda thing thanks to his choice for VP, John Edwards, who is also a trot lawyer Tort Lawyers are the third or fourth reason that health care in the US cost so much. The main reason is that health care is so costly IS that its an expensive use of resources. 50 or so years ago, doctors could little or nothing in many cases for which they now have resource-intensive procedures that compete against other goods/services for scarce resources and the mechanism used here is price. In other countries resources are distributed via arbitrary decisions made by some elite and thus are subject to mis-allocation often requiring some form of coercion. Another significant reason that was touched upon here is that much of our health care needs are met using a third-party payer system. A third-party payer system causes those who have such access to overuse health care (consumers are not price sensitive) thus causing health care to compete for a greater share of the available resources. At least our current third-party systems have some access to a non-arbitrary, non-coercive ordering method (although government intrusion here does create some rent-seeking opportunities), any proposal creating a monopoly-based third party (for instance, national health insurance), must be rejected because arbitrary decisions will be made along with the need for coercion which would lead to mis-allocation of resources (at least, the allocation of resources in a way that society wants them allocated). Adding to this problem with our current third-party payer system is that it was a kludge used by companies to circumvent wage controls and then institutionalized by our government in the 50s which creates those enormous rent-seeking opportunites which add even further to the cost of health care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Tater Posted November 4, 2004 Share Posted November 4, 2004 Originally posted by Golgo-13 Do you not understand that when you PAY for something that it is not FREE? The "free" healthcare that they have in Denmark, Canada, etc is not at all FREE. They are paying for it just like we do here in America except that they are forced into paying it with much higher tax rates. Furthermore, their systems have serious flaws. I lived in Denmark for two years and trying to see a doctor there was next to impossible. But hey...at least it was free. You also need to remember the opportunity costs that occurs due to mis-allocation or resources in a system that provides 'free' health-care. Other things people need may be relatively more scarce because those items can't get access to the resources over-used by the healthcare system (which, in many cases, just wastes those resources anyway). An example of this is that I may have to dedicate more of my time to accessing the particulars of the system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor 36 Posted November 4, 2004 Share Posted November 4, 2004 Originally posted by TMat184 I'm 20 years old living out on my own. Many of you at this point in your lives can't relate to the struggle young people face today. I'm insulted because you all insinuated my friends must not have jobs and thats why they can't afford healthcare. Truth of the matter is, the cost of living is so rediculously high thats its tough to afford it all. I'm a young man going through it, I guess I shouldn't expect you to understand. Stop the pity party. From the time I was 18 until I was 25, I paid for my own health care out of my own pocket because I CHOSE a job that did not offer it. I was able to pay for it because I got off my a$$ and researched and found good quality health care at a reasonable price (it takes all of 2-3 hours online). Sure, I didn't have a cell phone like some of my friends, sure I didn't have all the cable pay channels or even digital cable at the time, but I was fine because I got my PRIORITIES straight. What your young, naive brain hasn't thought about is how the entire quality of health care and medicine would deteriorate and how all of the working people's taxes would sky rocket if we had Gov't regulated Healthcare. I also find it humorous that this is still an issue after 8 years of Clinton. I remember his and her promises of taking care of the healthcare issue. So, remind me, why are we still talking about it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ancalagon the Black Posted November 5, 2004 Share Posted November 5, 2004 Originally posted by TMat184 Kilmer, your request for free gas is ludacris and shouldn't even be compared to this issue.[...] I'm sad to say that spelling "ludicrous" the way a popular rapper does doesn't add to your case. Hey, Kilmer17--where in the Constitution does it say that the government can recognize marriages for tax purposes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaddogCT Posted November 5, 2004 Share Posted November 5, 2004 Originally posted by riggins44 I'm all in favor of the the tax break for over 6000 lb GVW SUV's and trucks. Helps my business! See that's the point. The tax break was intended to help small business who NEED large trucks/buses. But of coarse people who don't NEED, one are taking advantage of the situation. At first it was only a 25,000 dollar tax credit now its up to 75,000 dollars. Nice to be in the oil business and also have the power to promote and support such GOVERNMENT incentives for vehicles that get between 10 and 15 mpg. Compare: GOVERNMENT incentive for buying a zero emission car?(Average cost:$20,000) $2000. If you were to compare the two and give each the same incentive the SUV should be $10,000(10%) or the zero emission, $15,000 (75%). But zero emission and fuel economy cars don't use as much oil. Bush had the ability to close the loophole and didn't. He could have called for congress to amend the law, but didn't. Gotta keep the loopholes open for upper 10%. In case someone tries to say anyone can afford a $25,000 you have to pony up the 100 grand first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topdog Posted November 5, 2004 Share Posted November 5, 2004 Bush sucking on the big drug companies.I wonder how some of these bush lovers would feel if there parents or grandparents had to make the decision to buy medicine or food Senior citizens don't mean **** to bush.He's already said he won't raise the minimun wage and he's trying to cut out overtime.What kind of morals is that when you **** the middle class and everyone below it?Two or three years from now you wont find hardly anybody say they voted for that SOB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thiebear Posted November 5, 2004 Share Posted November 5, 2004 If you really want all the meds and healthcare in the world: Join the military. They like 20yr olds and they have free everything... You can travel for 10 bucks, You can learn how to read a map and terrain features... You get better uniforms than McDee's... All about choices . If you got digital cable and don't take the bus to work or drive a 600$ POS.. My car is paid for and I dont have a cd player... Matter of fact I only own 6 cd's... Cable and Cell phone charges = the link to the health insurance. I've been to a club 3 times so far this year and don't remember the last movie I went to see... I also quit smoking.. it all adds up. I waste a TON of money on lunches at work and games and my kids... "my choice"... It's all in the details.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duncan Posted November 5, 2004 Share Posted November 5, 2004 Originally posted by topdog I wonder how some of these bush lovers would feel if there parents or grandparents had to make the decision to buy medicine or food In 2000 Al Gore introduced us to Melva, the 85 year old woman who had to eat dog food because her drugs were so expensive, but she looked rather fit and happy. I guess Alpo is both tasty and nutritional. Here is a thought. If your grandparents are starving go spend $1.75 and buy them a happy meal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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