Elton John comments about American censorship.

[phanatic]

This is unbelievable. What the hell is he talking about? If I actually have to explain this you're lost!!!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/3902833.stm

Elton attacks 'censorship' in US

Sir Elton John is currently performing in New York

Elton John has said stars are scared to speak out against war in Iraq because of "bullying tactics" used by the US government to hinder free speech.

"There's an atmosphere of fear in America right now that is deadly. Everyone is too career-conscious," he told New York magazine, Interview.

Sir Elton said performers could be "frightened by the current administration's bullying tactics",

The singer likened the current "fear factor" to McCarthyism in the 1950s.

"There was a moment about a year ago when you couldn't say a word about anything in this country for fear of your career being shot down by people saying you are un-American," he told the magazine.

The singer said things were different in the 1960s.

"People like Bob Dylan, Nina Simone, The Beatles and Pete Seeger were constantly writing and talking about what was going on.

Backlash

"That's not happening now. As of this spring, there have been virtually no anti-war concerts - or anti-war songs that catch on, for that matter," he said.

He voiced concern that it appeared acceptable to speak out if you were pro-Bush, using the example of country singer Toby Keith, but not if you were critical of the President, as in the case of country rock band, the Dixie Chicks.

"On the one hand, you have someone like Toby Keith, who has come out and been very supportive of the Bush administration and the war in Iraq - which is OK because America is a democracy and Toby Keith is entitled to say what he thinks and feels.

"But, on the other hand, the Dixie Chicks got shot down in flames last year for criticising the president. They were treated like they were being un-American, when in fact they have every right to say whatever they want about him because he's freely elected, and therefore accountable."

Sir Elton is currently in New York playing a series of concerts.

:doh: :doh: :doh:

He doesn't have a clue, does he? As if dissention isn't alive, well and thriving in this nation. He's complaining about those who are against Bush, stating that they are being censored? What? ARE YOU EFFING KIDDING ME? I love this mans music but his political mind is definitely "one-sided". STFU moron! Here's another classic case of "don't you dare question my statements". Make them and be prepared to be held accountable for them. TWO-WAY STREET, JACKASS!!! Dissention doesn't provide you with the protection to NOT be called to task. Somebody shoot him with the rubber bullets.

[Ghost of]

These cats think that if they get criticized it's somehow equivalent to censorship.

MORONS. If there was such an atmosphere of fear, why the hell did I have to hear from Jessica Lange, Mike Moore and dozens of other morons. Not to mention the thousands of Marchers for Saddam that clogged the streets before and even, at times, during the war.

[luckydevil]

speaking out about their inability to speak out

Hollywood leftists, got to love them

[Mister Happy]

Perhaps, but that is longer true anymore, as evidenced by the success of Fahrenheit 9/11.

It seems to me, from what I have seen, that it is now cool for celebrities to speak out against Bush and the war.

[aREDSKIN]

Elton just dosen't know what Elton dosen't know.

[Thiebear]

Pssst.

Speaking out makes you big money.. It's proved over and over.

So speaking out about speaking out may get people to talk about you too...

[Burgold]

Take that crap back to England, Elton.

Somebody shoot him with the rubber bullets.

ARE YOU EFFING KIDDING ME? I love this mans music but his political mind is definitely "one-sided". STFU moron!

yup, definately an atmosphere of healthy discussion and non censorship around here.

[DSF]

Originally posted by Burgold

yup, definately an atmosphere of healthy discussion and non censorship around here.

My first thoughts too when reading the thread... :doh:

[Larry]

Originally posted by DSF

My first thoughts too when reading the thread... :doh:

And, frankly, my second and third thoughts, too.

[fmorris]

Originally posted by phanatic

ARE YOU EFFING KIDDING ME?

STFU moron! Here's another classic case of "don't you dare question my statements".

Somebody shoot him with the rubber bullets.

Just, brilliant!

[Tarhog]

Originally posted by Burgold

yup, definately an atmosphere of healthy discussion and non censorship around here.

Thats the downside of letting people speak their mind isn't it?

You have to hear commentary that you DON'T want to hear.

What is 'healthy' conversation anyway? The staff here has spent countless hours trying to define it and haven't been able to. So I doubt any of you can quantify that term.

I have no problem with old Elton. He's got about as much insight into America as I do regarding Canada. His only experiences here occured in hotels and 5 star restaurants. Let him state his opinions. The 'McCarthyism' stuff is pretty ridiculous though. You have to hear EVERYBODY's opinion in America, whether you like it or not. Anyone who can't see that isn't looking very hard.

[Woofer]

Originally posted by phanatic

This is unbelievable. What the hell is he talking about? If I actually have to explain this you're lost!!!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/3902833.stm

He doesn't have a clue, does he? ... ARE YOU EFFING KIDDING ME? I love this mans music but his political mind is definitely "one-sided". STFU moron! Here's another classic case of "don't you dare question my statements". Make them and be prepared to be held accountable for them. TWO-WAY STREET, JACKASS!!! Dissention doesn't provide you with the protection to NOT be called to task. Somebody shoot him with the rubber bullets.

Uhm, I think you are proving his point. Name-calling? Telling him to STFU? More name-calling? What, are you 6 years old?

Whaddaya gonna do now, call me a name and tell me to shut up? That, my moronic JACKASS friend with the rubber bullet brain, IS censorship. Idiot. Somebody hit the ban button on this jerk, I don't wanna hear from him anymore.

:banhim:

Originally posted by Ghost of Bilbo Stabbins

These cats think that if they get criticized it's somehow equivalent to censorship.

MORONS. If there was such an atmosphere of fear, why the hell did I have to hear from Jessica Lange, Mike Moore and dozens of other morons. Not to mention the thousands of Marchers for Saddam that clogged the streets before and even, at times, during the war.

"Morons"? Takes one to know one. Nanny-nanny-boo-boo. Now go :shutup: ayouface and go :censored:.

Originally posted by Zero Cool

Take that crap back to England, Elton.

So you want to censor him by shipping him out of the country? Go join the other two.

God, what a load of

:bsflag:

Originally posted by aREDSKIN

Elton just dosen't know what Elton dosen't know.

He's smarter than you.

Originally posted by Thiebear

Pssst.

Speaking out makes you big money.. It's proved over and over.

So speaking out about speaking out may get people to talk about you too...

You are accusing Sir Elton John, the same man who donates most of his profits to AIDS Charity organizations, of being greedy?

And don't come back and say "He's trying to get more money for chis charity" cause that just won't fly.

To all of my friends here on extremeskins:

I apologize for the above responses - I know they do not conform to my normal style. But when dealing with immature, ignorant, name-calling child brains such as these people have shown themselves to be, sometimes you have to lower yourself to their level. Otherwise, they don't understand. To present them with logical, calm, and reasonable responses is like reading Shakespear to a dog.

I feel bad about it. Again, I apologize.

[Stu]

Censor

Function: transitive verb

Inflected Form(s): cen·sored; cen·sor·ing /'sen(t)-s&-ri[ng], 'sen(t)s-ri[ng]/

: to examine in order to suppress or delete anything considered objectionable.

To Sir Elton or any other: Please demonstrate how this has been done either by the government or some other entity.

Free speech doesn't mean "free" from ramifications.

[Woofer]

Originally posted by Tarhog

Thats the downside of letting people speak their mind isn't it?

You have to hear commentary that you DON'T want to hear.

What is 'healthy' conversation anyway? The staff here has spent countless hours trying to define it and haven't been able to. So I doubt any of you can quantify that term.

I have no problem with old Elton. He's got about as much insight into America as I do regarding Canada. His only experiences here occured in hotels and 5 star restaurants. Let him state his opinions. The 'McCarthyism' stuff is pretty ridiculous though. You have to hear EVERYBODY's opinion in America, whether you like it or not. Anyone who can't see that isn't looking very hard.

I think Elton is just reacting to, as he said, what he saw in relation to the Dixie Chicks. They spoke their minds, and were ostracized.

Elton's experience in America is, umh, what's the word, limited I guess, but he does read the paper and watch TV. (He admitted to being a fan of American Idol.)

As for me, I rarely listen to or want to hear of celebrities opinions or political leanings.

Just put in the record, or play the movie, that is all I want from my celebrities.

[Thinking Skins]

Originally posted by Stu

Censor

Function: transitive verb

Inflected Form(s): cen·sored; cen·sor·ing /'sen(t)-s&-ri[ng], 'sen(t)s-ri[ng]/

: to examine in order to suppress or delete anything considered objectionable.

To Sir Elton or any other: Please demonstrate how this has been done either by the government or some other entity.

Free speech doesn't mean "free" from ramifications.

What Elton is talking about is the fear factor associated with speasking one's mind in America.

I remember in the mid 90's, Jordan said he didnt want to become political because he didnt want it to hurt the selling of his shoes. This is a choice that entertainers face today. Many put their careers on the line when they make a comment against the status quo.

They get comments just like the people on this board that they're not smart enough to think like that or make that comment. THey're told to concentrate on what they do best and leave the politics to the politicians, stuff like that. Even People like O'Rielly say to boycott buying their albums or watching their movies because its unamerican.

Somebody mentioned Mike Moore as an example to say that celebs are doing this, but what kind of a celebrity do you think that Mike Moore was? His fame is from documentaries. Why do you think that other people, other celebrities haven't said much about the things that they're against?

Its cause the media has a field day with this kind of commentary. They will go into the celebrity's past and find incidents that they can use to discredit them, they'll make comments to lower their sales and marketing, and they'll bring on like 4 or 5 guys to their show to attack the statements to make the celebs look stupid.

Thats called using free press to control free speech.

[Thinking Skins]

Originally posted by Woofer Magoo

Uhm, I think you are proving his point. Name-calling? Telling him to STFU? More name-calling? What, are you 6 years old?

Whaddaya gonna do now, call me a name and tell me to shut up? That, my moronic JACKASS friend with the rubber bullet brain, IS censorship. Idiot. Somebody hit the ban button on this jerk, I don't wanna hear from him anymore.

:banhim:

"Morons"? Takes one to know one. Nanny-nanny-boo-boo. Now go :shutup: ayouface and go :censored:.

So you want to censor him by shipping him out of the country? Go join the other two.

God, what a load of

:bsflag:

He's smarter than you.

You are accusing Sir Elton John, the same man who donates most of his profits to AIDS Charity organizations, of being greedy?

And don't come back and say "He's trying to get more money for chis charity" cause that just won't fly.

To all of my friends here on extremeskins:

I apologize for the above responses - I know they do not conform to my normal style. But when dealing with immature, ignorant, name-calling child brains such as these people have shown themselves to be, sometimes you have to lower yourself to their level. Otherwise, they don't understand. To present them with logical, calm, and reasonable responses is like reading Shakespear to a dog.

I feel bad about it. Again, I apologize.

I appreciate you making these comments, cause I really agree with all your rebuttals.

[phanatic]

To all of my friends here on extremeskins:

I apologize for the above responses - I know they do not conform to my normal style. But when dealing with immature, ignorant, name-calling child brains such as these people have shown themselves to be, sometimes you have to lower yourself to their level. Otherwise, they don't understand. To present them with logical, calm, and reasonable responses is like reading Shakespear to a dog.

I feel bad about it. Again, I apologize.

Once again your condescending liberal elitist attitude does not afford you the ability to understand the statements.

If Elton "believes" that America is attacking those that "spoke out" against Bush, then why the hell did Kerry endorse that ridiculous political rally involving those statements from the likes of Whoopi? Now Kerry chooses to distance himself from that nights theme of Bush bashing.

If in fact The ditzy twits suffered ridicule and financial hardships from their statements, then they must have pissed on the majorities cornflakes. And when isn't it okay for those to speak out against those who speak out, against their beliefs?

Democratic Underground

I hear they're looking for more socialists over there. They too believe it's incredible that people would actually speak out against their stance. Just don't rock the boat over there and make sure to fall in line or you're gone!

[Zuck]

He does have a point about people overeacting when people express their opinions. I imagine if the girl in the Dixie Chicks called Bush a dope right now not as many people would care. What a difference a year makes.

Collin Powell's son is the head of the FCC. When Howard Stern starting talking bad about Bush all of a sudden he was fined an enormous amount and Clear Channel dumped him. Maybe it's just a coincidence but maybe it's not. Disney forced Miramax to stop distribution of Farenheitt 9/11. Disney also get big tax breaks from Florida.

That the administration is the force behind the crackdown on dissent is debatable but I don't think you're crazy for bringing it up. There are some valid arguments for it like I just mentioned.

[Woofer]

Originally posted by phanatic

Once again your condescending liberal elitist attitude does not afford you the ability to understand the statements.

If Elton "believes" that America is attacking those that "spoke out" against Bush, then why the hell did Kerry endorse that ridiculous political rally involving those statements from the likes of Whoopi? Now Kerry chooses to distance himself from that nights theme of Bush bashing.

If in fact The ditzy twits suffered ridicule and financial hardships from their statements, then they must have pissed on the majorities cornflakes. And when isn't it okay for those to speak out against those who speak out, against their beliefs?

Democratic Underground

I hear they're looking for more socialists over there. They too believe it's incredible that people would actually speak out against their stance. Just don't rock the boat over there and make sure to fall in line or you're gone!

Understand the statements? What part of STFU do you think I did not understand? I will not STFU. You STFU. What now, threaten me with physical violence, because I will not "toe the line". That is socialism. You people are something, then accuse someone else of being what you are to take the light off of you. It won't work with me.

And as for the Dixie Chicks - there you go again, name calling and trying to reduce their statements to "pissing on cornflakes". YOu are the only pisser here. Pissant.

To be perfectly honest, I don't care what Elton believes politically.

I don't care that William Shatner was/is egotistical to the point of delusions of grandeur.

There is something that bothers me though, and that is calling people names and telling them to shut up and/or get out just because they expressed their opinion. They have that right. So do you. But when someone's "opinion" is to tell someone else to "STFU" that is not an opinion.

"Just don't rock the boat or you're gone!" - Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but someone else earlier in this thread told Elton to go back to England.

Was he rocking the boat? Not conforming? Speaking out?

Or is this another logical, reasonable, and well thought out argument in favor of Democracy?

[fmorris]

Originally posted by phanatic

Once again your condescending liberal elitist attitude does not afford you the ability to understand the statements.

Ok, all wise rubber bullet guru. Atleast he didnt suggest shooting you, for stating yours. Great logic, you represent well.

[phanatic]

Originally posted by fmorris

Ok, all wise rubber bullet guru. Atleast he didnt suggest shooting you, for stating yours. Great logic, you represent well.

Look at my statement, again. Look at EJ's statement. If what he says is so damn true, then why isn't his face swollen from being shot with the rubber bullets? He complains about censorhip in America and yet he is free to speak his mind on whatever he chooses whenever he so desires. So, I say again, where are the bruises and finacial hardships he's experiencing form "American Censorship"? If they're not happening then whats the beef? Stop playing the role of the innocent when you are calling me and everyone else who opposes your view, a fascist.

Therein lies the problem. You are allowed to speak your mind but when you state that you are being censored by those on the other side...eat some rubber bullets!

I guess he's right when he stated that the American Idol competition was racist because, lord forbid, millions of American adolescents voted for a younger, more "peer like" competitor over the one with obviously more talent. Thank MTV for that. Last I checked, Elton loved MTV!

EDIT* And Fantasia Bareno(sp.) is Asian.

[Larry]

Originally posted by Stu

Censor

Function: transitive verb

Inflected Form(s): cen·sored; cen·sor·ing /'sen(t)-s&-ri[ng], 'sen(t)s-ri[ng]/

: to examine in order to suppress or delete anything considered objectionable.

To Sir Elton or any other: Please demonstrate how this has been done either by the government or some other entity.

Free speech doesn't mean "free" from ramifications.

No, but it does usually mean "free" from censorship.

And, just to pick an example, what was done to the Dixie Chicks was censorship, according to the definition you just cited.

What it is that defines censorship isn't an action, it's an intent. (The intent to silence sonething.)

If I chose not to go see Michael Moore's latest pile of dung because I've got better things to do with my time than pay money for somebody (that I can't even talk back to), to beat me over the head with some political viewpoint, supported by some "facts" that I can't trust, then I'm making a choice. (And, in this case, I'm voting with my wallet, as well as my theatre-seat-not-filling behind.)

If, OTOH, I write Disney and threatten to cancel my vacation if some company-that's owned-by-some-other-company-that's-owned-by-Disney allows the movie to be shown, then I'm no longer chosing what to do with my time and money, I'm trying to chose what chromerics does with his time.

It becomes censorship when you try to limit somebody else's choices.

[Woofer]

Originally posted by Larry

No, but it does usually mean "free" from censorship.

And, just to pick an example, what was done to the Dixie Chicks was censorship, according to the definition you just cited.

What it is that defines censorship isn't an action, it's an intent. (The intent to silence sonething.)

If I chose not to go see Michael Moore's latest pile of dung because I've got better things to do with my time than pay money for somebody (that I can't even talk back to), to beat me over the head with some political viewpoint, supported by some "facts" that I can't trust, then I'm making a choice. (And, in this case, I'm voting with my wallet, as well as my theatre-seat-not-filling behind.)

If, OTOH, I write Disney and threatten to cancel my vacation if some company-that's owned-by-some-other-company-that's-owned-by-Disney allows the movie to be shown, then I'm no longer chosing what to do with my time and money, I'm trying to chose what chromerics does with his time.

It becomes censorship when you try to limit somebody else's choices.

You get my nomination for the best post on this thread yet.

:respect:

[Ghost of]

Hmm, let's see how some of the oh-so-enlightened on this thread would react if a celebrity slandered their mothers or said they were members of neo-Nazi groups.

Wonder if the calls for boycott would be called "another form of censorship" then.

[Stu]

Originally posted by Larry

No, but it does usually mean "free" from censorship.

And, just to pick an example, what was done to the Dixie Chicks was censorship, according to the definition you just cited.

What it is that defines censorship isn't an action, it's an intent. (The intent to silence sonething.)

If I chose not to go see Michael Moore's latest pile of dung because I've got better things to do with my time than pay money for somebody (that I can't even talk back to), to beat me over the head with some political viewpoint, supported by some "facts" that I can't trust, then I'm making a choice. (And, in this case, I'm voting with my wallet, as well as my theatre-seat-not-filling behind.)

If, OTOH, I write Disney and threatten to cancel my vacation if some company-that's owned-by-some-other-company-that's-owned-by-Disney allows the movie to be shown, then I'm no longer chosing what to do with my time and money, I'm trying to chose what chromerics does with his time.

It becomes censorship when you try to limit somebody else's choices.

Negative. If you try to influence others into not seeing the movie, then that is exercising your right to free speech. The movie company, Disney in this case, is free to make the business decision on what is the most appropriate course of action for their bottom line; support the original statements or act on your free speech.

To everyone, I say speak your mind. But words and actions have ramifications.

Has anything the Dixies Chick or any other celebrity said been "surpressed" or "deleted"? I think not as I continue to hear foolish thing come from their mouths. Perhaps people have just chosen not to listen. That would be the ramifications to their "free speech"