webnarc Posted May 31, 2004 Share Posted May 31, 2004 Hey Christians, take note, you need to start increasing hate towards fellow American's. Don't waste it all on terrorists, save some for those who are tolerant. [line] http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/Midwest/05/31/gays.communion.ap/index.html Gay supporters denied communion at Chicago Mass Minnesota Catholics blocked at altar Monday, May 31, 2004 Posted: 8:03 AM EDT (1203 GMT) CHICAGO, Illinois (AP) -- Parishioners who wore rainbow-colored sashes to Mass in support of gays and lesbians were denied communion in Chicago, while laymen in Minnesota tried to prevent gay Roman Catholics from getting the sacrament. Priests at Holy Name Cathedral in Chicago refused to give the Eucharist to about 10 people wearing the sashes at Sunday Mass. One priest shook each person's hand; another made the sign of the cross on their foreheads. "The priest told me you cannot receive communion if you're wearing a sash, as per the Cardinal's direction," said James Luxton, a Chicago member of the Rainbow Sash Movement, an organization of Catholic gay-rights supporters with chapters around the country. An internal memo from Chicago Cardinal Francis George that became public last week instructed priests not to give communion to people wearing the sashes, which the group's members wear every year for Pentecost. The memo says the sashes are a symbol of opposition to the church's doctrine on homosexuality and exploit the communion ritual. "The Rainbow Sash movement wants its members to be fully accepted by the Church not on the same conditions as any Catholic but precisely as gay," George wrote. "With this comes the requirement that the Church change her moral teaching." Rainbow Sash Movement spokesman Joe Murray was among those denied communion in Chicago. He said members wearing the sashes should be seen no differently than a uniformed police officer or Boy Scout seeking communion. "What we saw today in the cathedral is discrimination at the Eucharistic table, and that shouldn't be happening," Murray said. Those denied communion returned to their pews, but stood while the rest of the congregation knelt. The movement, which started about five years ago in England, also has members in Dallas, Texas; New Orleans, Louisiana; New York and Rochester, New York. In St. Paul, Minnesota, people wearing the rainbow-colored sashes were given communion Sunday despite protests from some parishioners who kneeled in front of the altar blocking their way. The Rev. Michael Skluzacek said in a written statement that both sides were "mistakenly using the Mass and the Eucharist to make their own personal statements." Brian McNeill, organizer of the Rainbow Sash Alliance of the Twin Cities, said the local group has worn the sashes every Pentecost at St. Paul Cathedral since 2001, but the group had never experienced such a confrontation. A Vatican doctrinal decree last year directed at Catholic politicians said a well-formed conscience forbids support for any law that contradicts "fundamental" morality, with abortion listed first among relevant issues. A second Vatican statement said it is "gravely immoral" not to oppose legalization of same-sex unions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted May 31, 2004 Share Posted May 31, 2004 So a church stands up for it's beliefs. What's your point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phanatic Posted May 31, 2004 Share Posted May 31, 2004 Originally posted by Sarge So a church stands up for it's beliefs. What's your point According to liberals, the church shouldn't have that right. Isn't that discriminating against gays? Ridiculous!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cskin Posted May 31, 2004 Share Posted May 31, 2004 Well.. they can force the Cub Scouts to admit homosexuals.... pedophiles and whomever else..... I'm betting the Govt. is well on it's way to starting Legal proceedings against this church. Also... has their been an ACLU sighting yet? I'm quite sure they'll be interested in a homosexual being denied his right to worship his religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinInsite Posted May 31, 2004 Share Posted May 31, 2004 I guess God doesn't love everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted May 31, 2004 Share Posted May 31, 2004 Originally posted by Sarge So a church stands up for it's beliefs. What's your point So because I happen to oppose the discrimination gays encounter in this country I should be denied communion with my God? That's stupidity of the highest order and I find it to be completely against the teachings of Jesus. In fact the Catholic church, of which I am a member, has taken a rigthward trun in the political realm that is going to cost them a great many followers. You see I make up my own damn mind when it comes to politics and take a lot more into account then stances on a handful of issues. If that means I can't take communion, then not only won't I, but the church and it's brigade of large hat weilding hypocrites can kiss my @ss. Organized religion has become a sham, perhaps it always was and I just didn't see it but at least I can thank this latest generation of Cardinals and Bishops for opening my eyes. When I read the letter from that fraud in Arizona telling Catholics that if they support abortion, gay rights, etc etc listing liberal issues AND LEAVING OUT THE DEATH PENALTY which is a long time CATHOLIC issue I knew the church had sold itself like a cheap whore to political partisanship. When a church leader leaves out a central issue to the church in order to align himself with a poltical party he loses all influence in my eyes. So to answer Sarge's post, if the church stood up for it's issues then this would be a no brainer. Sadly they aren't, they are ignoring their own issues in order to favor a political party. How pathetic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted May 31, 2004 Share Posted May 31, 2004 Originally posted by phanatic According to liberals, the church shouldn't have that right. Isn't that discriminating against gays? Ridiculous!!! According to what liberals? Give examples or spare me your mindless drivel based more on stereotypes then any actual knowledge on the issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted May 31, 2004 Share Posted May 31, 2004 Narc, Thanks for a very enlightening post here that explains just how disgusting the liberal mindset is. You equate church doctrine against your homosexual agenda -- no one seriously disputes the view of the church on homosexuality -- with acts of terrorism that kill innocent civilians by asking us to withhold our anger at those who would murder our citizens and save some for those who believe God views homosexuality as a sin. It is the expression of such things as this that make me wonder how anyone can respect the view of a liberal as I'm certain you posted this thinking it just felt right. Obviously the homosexual agenda adopted by liberals is clearly an injustice on par with acts of terrorism, beheadings, and murder of innocent people the world over. If this is the view someone would come to value and respect, I'm certainly glad I've not been so corrupted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted May 31, 2004 Share Posted May 31, 2004 Originally posted by Destino According to what liberals? Give examples or spare me your mindless drivel based more on stereotypes then any actual knowledge on the issue. Well, WebNarc above seems to believe the church shouldn't have the right to deny the Holy Sacrament to sinners. Or, more specifically, to homosexuals who are just like everyone else afterall. Since a liberal started this thread, it's not mindless drivel to comment that liberals don't tend to see the church as having rights to administer God's teachings when it comes to gays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted May 31, 2004 Share Posted May 31, 2004 I'm usually all too happy to kibbitz (as noted by my number of posts) but this requires a comment. Tolerant? Where is the tolerance from the "sash-wearers" toward those of us who want to practice our religion peacefully? I am continually puzzled by groups like this along with "ACT UP" that decide desecrating the Eucharist, something that Catholics regard as a true miracle on earth and actual presence of Christ is a viable means of protest. Tolerant? The Catholic church is by all accounts the greatest contributor both monetary and by actions to those suffering from the AIDS (many of which I believe are homosexual). Sounds tolerant to me. Tolerant? If these individuals where "tolerant" as you suggest, then they would live and let live as they profess. They are more than welcome to come to my church anytime...but I believe for most the Eucharist would be off limits. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "A great many of those who 'debunk' traditional...values have in the background values of their own which they believe to be immune from the debunking process." -C.S. Lewis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted May 31, 2004 Share Posted May 31, 2004 Originally posted by Art Well, WebNarc above seems to believe the church shouldn't have the right to deny the Holy Sacrament to sinners. Or, more specifically, to homosexuals who are just like everyone else afterall. Since a liberal started this thread, it's not mindless drivel to comment that liberals don't tend to see the church as having rights to administer God's teachings when it comes to gays. 1 -- this article isn't about sinners, it's about supporters of political issues. In other you don't have to be gay to be denied communion, you just have to be a person that thinks treating gays different then everyone else is a bad idea. 2 -- where has anyone said the church has no "right" to preach this trash? It seems to me people disagree with it, but no one is trying to force them to do otherwise. Big difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted May 31, 2004 Share Posted May 31, 2004 Originally posted by Destino Organized religion has become a sham, perhaps it always was and I just didn't see it but at least I can thank this latest generation of Cardinals and Bishops for opening my eyes. When I read the letter from that fraud in Arizona telling Catholics that if they support abortion, gay rights, etc etc listing liberal issues AND LEAVING OUT THE DEATH PENALTY which is a long time CATHOLIC issue I knew the church had sold itself like a cheap whore to political partisanship. When a church leader leaves out a central issue to the church in order to align himself with a poltical party he loses all influence in my eyes. . Small point for my fellow Catholic. While the Church does not encourage the Death Penalty, it does not forbid it. Check your Catechism. The argument made by the Pope is that it is not needed in this day and age. That being said, it is not an issue on "Faith and Morals" in which all Catholics must agree. Therefore its inclusion in this argument is not germane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted May 31, 2004 Share Posted May 31, 2004 Originally posted by Destino 1 -- this article isn't about sinners, it's about supporters of political issues. In other you don't have to be gay to be denied communion, you just have to be a person that thinks treating gays different then everyone else is a bad idea. 2 -- where has anyone said the church has no "right" to preach this trash? It seems to me people disagree with it, but no one is trying to force them to do otherwise. Big difference. It is about sinners, because, as you point out, the church is coming down on those who support those who sin as, themselves, unworthy of God's approval. Such as the commentary we saw on Kerry's views on abortion and how some church members felt he should not be granted communion because he supports something that is against God. Remember, Destino, I'm an agnostic, so, I have little sympathy with the religious view of many things. It just seems to be substantially hard for a reasonable person to suggest thousands of years of "God's" words is "trash" when it comes to not granting those who support sin in the form of homosexuality. Such language tends to show your own bias in this regard, and limits your comments if this is how you view church teaching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted May 31, 2004 Share Posted May 31, 2004 Originally posted by Art Thanks for a very enlightening post here that explains just how disgusting the liberal mindset is. You equate church doctrine against your homosexual agenda -- no one seriously disputes the view of the church on homosexuality -- with acts of terrorism that kill innocent civilians by asking us to withhold our anger at those who would murder our citizens and save some for those who believe God views homosexuality as a sin. 1 -- What is the "homosexual agenda" other then demanding equal treatment. 2 -- He did not equate church doctrine with terror, he is saying that hatred delivered through religion is not reserved to one religion or only terrorists. It is his opinion and if you wish to debate it try doing so without the use of typical dishonest attacks. Originally posted by Art It is the expression of such things as this that make me wonder how anyone can respect the view of a liberal as I'm certain you posted this thinking it just felt right. Obviously the homosexual agenda adopted by liberals is clearly an injustice on par with acts of terrorism, beheadings, and murder of innocent people the world over. If this is the view someone would come to value and respect, I'm certainly glad I've not been so corrupted. The fact that anyone can use the term "homosexual agenda" and then show wonder at how the other guys views are respected is funny to me. Also once again your dishonesty is striking. No one equated the church's latest misdeed with terrorism, it is compared but not at any point stated as equal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted May 31, 2004 Share Posted May 31, 2004 Originally posted by Art It is about sinners, because, as you point out, the church is coming down on those who support those who sin as, themselves, unworthy of God's approval. Such as the commentary we saw on Kerry's views on abortion and how some church members felt he should not be granted communion because he supports something that is against God. Remember, Destino, I'm an agnostic, so, I have little sympathy with the religious view of many things. It just seems to be substantially hard for a reasonable person to suggest thousands of years of "God's" words is "trash" when it comes to not granting those who support sin in the form of homosexuality. Such language tends to show your own bias in this regard, and limits your comments if this is how you view church teaching. Such language blah blah blah. I already explained why this latest idiocy is considered by me to be trash. Also I don't support the "sin" of homosexuality, I support equal treatment. yet another important aspect of this issue you are ignoring when claiming "those who support sin" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted May 31, 2004 Share Posted May 31, 2004 Originally posted by Destino 1 -- What is the "homosexual agenda" other then demanding equal treatment. Homosexuals have every single right in the world that hetrosexuals have. You're not asking for equal treatment. Your asking for special dispensation granted to this particular sexual deviancy. The law doesn't forbid homosexuals from getting married. The law simply defines marriage as that between a man and a woman. This is the social order. A gay person can freely marry the opposite sex. They are, therefore, equally treated. However, that's not what you mean, though there is no doubt you will use the phrase "equal rights" to disguise your motives. Your motives, as with that of liberals the country over, is to normalize homsexuality. You've adopted this sexual deviancy as ok and you want all people to recognize it as ok or you will make this your new civil rights movement, which, itself, insults blacks by associating sexual behavior with the plight of a race of people. The agenda is you want to make people view homosexuality as normal. As natural. As born to people. Essentially, you want to turn homosexuals into a distinct species of humans, different in some way than other humans. In the end, such an effort is more damaging than you probably realize. 2 -- He did not equate church doctrine with terror, he is saying that hatred delivered through religion is not reserved to one religion or only terrorists. It is his opinion and if you wish to debate it try doing so without the use of typical dishonest attacks. Absolutely he is equating church doctrine against homosexuals with the sort of hate we see delivered the world over by those using Islam as their basis. That's a direct correlation he used in his opening sentence by marrying the two as somehow equally worthy of scorn. The fact that anyone can use the term "homosexual agenda" and then show wonder at how the other guys views are respected is funny to me. Also once again your dishonesty is striking. No one equated the church's latest misdeed with terrorism, it is compared but not at any point stated as equal. Destino, Narc called for us to save some of our hate for those who practice what he perceives as intolerance towards gays. As part of the homosexual agenda you and he forward, you brand teaching God views homosexuality as a sin as trash and here that it is a misdeed for the church to require those sharing in the most holy of practices -- the taking of God into you, opening yourself to him -- actually PRACTICE what God is telling them. Again, I find religious people a bit wacky. I just think it shows the desperation of those on your side who attempt to hide your agenda by essentially discrediting God. If that works for you that's great. I believe in God as little as you obviously do. There, at least, we obviously see eye to eye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted May 31, 2004 Share Posted May 31, 2004 Originally posted by Destino Such language blah blah blah. I already explained why this latest idiocy is considered by me to be trash. Also I don't support the "sin" of homosexuality, I support equal treatment. yet another important aspect of this issue you are ignoring when claiming "those who support sin" You are not supporting equal treatment, Destino, though you do like to pretend that's what it is so the guilty white liberal in you can feel better about it. You are supporting unequal treatment. You are supporting special rights reserved for those special people in the gay community. You are supporting this sexual deviancy over all others. As gay people are not denied any rights straight people have, they have very equal rights. What they do not have -- yet -- are the special rights you want to give your adopted deviancy. That of normalcy. In a generation or two, though, have no fear. The indoctrination you've begun will teach the youth that God and his word is meaningless when held up against an individual's desire to be gay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cskin Posted May 31, 2004 Share Posted May 31, 2004 In fact the Catholic church, of which I am a member, has taken a rigthward trun in the political realm that is going to cost them a great many followers. You see I make up my own damn mind when it comes to politics and take a lot more into account then stances on a handful of issues. If that means I can't take communion, then not only won't I, but the church and it's brigade of large hat weilding hypocrites can kiss my @ss. Isn't this the same Catholic Church playing hide and seek with their pedophile priests in an attempt, not to end the horrible actions of their cloth, but to minimize the damage of the church should these allegations and truths come to light? Frankly, I find their actions hypocritical. They want to refuse to give communion to those either homesexual or who support homesexuals while their priests and bishops are playing grab a$$ with juveniles in the back rooms. I'm with Art... eff these wayward religions... I'll explain myself to the maker when I see him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted May 31, 2004 Share Posted May 31, 2004 Originally posted by Cskin Isn't this the same Catholic Church playing hide and seek with their pedophile priests in an attempt, not to end the horrible actions of their cloth, but to minimize the damage of the church should these allegations and truths come to light? Frankly, I find their actions hypocritical. They want to refuse to give communion to those either homesexual or who support homesexuals while their priests and bishops are playing grab a$$ with juveniles in the back rooms. I'm with Art... eff these wayward religions... I'll explain myself to the maker when I see him. Maybe they have seen the light. Afterall, they have allowed homo's to be priest for years, and look where that got them. Why should they want anyone else with the same "values" in their membership, unless they want to change their ways. That doesn't seem to be the case with the sash wearers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cskin Posted May 31, 2004 Share Posted May 31, 2004 As gay people are not denied any rights straight people have, they have very equal rights. What they do not have -- yet -- are the special rights you want to give your adopted deviancy. That of normalcy. In a generation or two, though, have no fear. The indoctrination you've begun will teach the youth that God and his word is meaningless when held up against an individual's desire to be gay. Amen there! They aren't denied any basic rights as human beings... they're just denied special treatment and they're denied the ability to wreck the sanctity of marriage. Homosexuals are adopting kids now, thanks to Liberalism. They're placing "The Prince and his Prince" in elementary school libraries thanks to Liberalism. The effort to wreck the very meaning of marriage is on the horizon thanks to Liberalism. What's next? Are we going to allow books on Beatiality in elementary schoolsl? We don't want to discriminate against these people do we? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted May 31, 2004 Share Posted May 31, 2004 Originally posted by Cskin Isn't this the same Catholic Church playing hide and seek with their pedophile priests in an attempt, not to end the horrible actions of their cloth, but to minimize the damage of the church should these allegations and truths come to light? Frankly, I find their actions hypocritical. They want to refuse to give communion to those either homesexual or who support homesexuals while their priests and bishops are playing grab a$$ with juveniles in the back rooms. I'm with Art... eff these wayward religions... I'll explain myself to the maker when I see him. It is indeed, but the actions of some nor the mismanagement there of do not condemn the whole institution. (I assume you don't hold the entire US Military accountable for Abu Ghraib). Rest assured...those responsible for the acts against the children will definitely have to "explain themselves to the Maker" for not only those acts but damaging the Church as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted May 31, 2004 Share Posted May 31, 2004 Originally posted by Stu It is indeed, but the actions of some nor the mismanagement there of do not condemn the whole institution. (I assume you don't hold the entire US Military accountable for Abu Ghraib). Rest assured...those responsible for the acts against the children will definitely have to "explain themselves to the Maker" for not only those acts but damaging the Church as well. Stu, Unfortunately what the priests did to the children is FAR worse than what our soldiers did to the prisoners in Iraq. Yet, in the case of the humiliation and abusive photos, the public does perceive that we are prosecuting these people and attempting to let justice take its course. In the case of the Catholic church, the perception -- whether rightly or wrongly -- is that the church is really still protecting those who were responsible and not holding them to the same principle of justice. It limits the moral authority of the church because of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckydevil Posted May 31, 2004 Share Posted May 31, 2004 It's amazing how leftists will attack Christianity lack of tolerance of homosexuality, but will go out of their way to defend Islam. Let me quote Dr Muzammil Siddiqi, director of the Islamic Society of North America "homosexuality is a moral disease, a sin, a corruption… No person is born homosexual, just as nobody is born a thief, a liar or a murderer. People acquire these evil habits due to a lack of proper guidance and education." A mainstream Muslim attacking homosexuality……… Is webnarc ready to call Islam a religion of hate? Somehow, I doubt it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted May 31, 2004 Share Posted May 31, 2004 Originally posted by Art Stu, Unfortunately what the priests did to the children is FAR worse than what our soldiers did to the prisoners in Iraq. Yet, in the case of the humiliation and abusive photos, the public does perceive that we are prosecuting these people and attempting to let justice take its course. In the case of the Catholic church, the perception -- whether rightly or wrongly -- is that the church is really still protecting those who were responsible and not holding them to the same principle of justice. It limits the moral authority of the church because of it. Agree with all. Especially that the pedophiliais FAR worse. Just demonstrating the point that the sins of the few don't necessary reflect the whole. As an active member of the Church, I do believe the leadership is doing much to remedy this problem (after really messing it up) Perhaps it is a question of perception as you state. In the end, I believe it will only make the Church better as this problem is dealt with fully. But I digress into a different post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Jones Posted May 31, 2004 Share Posted May 31, 2004 To call Islam a religion of hate I think is inaccurate. Certain people who practice the religion, whether with conviction or not, bend it to do evil deeds. Any religion can be twisted to corruption. That being said, the next great war will be about religion, specifically with Islam. Might as well start hating them now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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