fish Posted May 27, 2004 Share Posted May 27, 2004 Sorry Tom, but this is good news for us! His hardcore tactics might work out in the end, but it will disrupt at least the first half of the season! COUGHLIN CONFRONTS O'HARA A league source tells us that Giants coach Tom Coughlin has fingered newcomer Shaun O'Hara as one of the players who complained to the NFL Players Association regarding Coughlin's violation of offseason workout rules. Following an investigation, the Giants lost two days of voluntary workouts. Per the source, Coughlin tore into O'Hara so aggressively that it prompted other players in the vicinity to walk away. We hear that O'Hara, who is expected to play center for the G-men, used to be a player rep with the Browns. Coincidentally, the Browns were accused last year of breaking the offseason workout rules. No violations ultimately were found. Word also is that morale is low in Giants camp. As one source said, "If this is what it's like in minicamps, what the f--k is the season going to be like?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ntotoro Posted May 27, 2004 Share Posted May 27, 2004 Wow... this sounds ugly. This sounds even worse than Camp Marty if any of this holds true. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highway66 Posted May 27, 2004 Share Posted May 27, 2004 The G-men are in for a long season no matter what happens in coughlins torture chambers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McMetal Posted May 27, 2004 Share Posted May 27, 2004 And people are actually wondering if he'll find success before Gibbs?!?! Sheesh, what a mess. This guy sounds like a real pr*ck. Should give Brunell some added incentive when we face them next year. (or, er...Ramsey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaRock Posted May 27, 2004 Share Posted May 27, 2004 Geez, Eli was screwed no matter where he went.. :gaintsuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dallsux Posted May 27, 2004 Share Posted May 27, 2004 Originally posted by fish Sorry Tom, but this is good news for us! His hardcore tactics might work out in the end, but it will disrupt at least the first half of the season! COUGHLIN CONFRONTS O'HARA A league source tells us that Giants coach Tom Coughlin has fingered newcomer Shaun O'Hara as one of the players who complained to the NFL Players Association regarding Coughlin's violation of offseason workout rules. Following an investigation, the Giants lost two days of voluntary workouts. Per the source, Coughlin tore into O'Hara so aggressively that it prompted other players in the vicinity to walk away. We hear that O'Hara, who is expected to play center for the G-men, used to be a player rep with the Browns. Coincidentally, the Browns were accused last year of breaking the offseason workout rules. No violations ultimately were found. Word also is that morale is low in Giants camp. As one source said, "If this is what it's like in minicamps, what the f--k is the season going to be like?" How could morale NOT be low. Ever since Coughlin has been there, there have been nothing but complaints & bad press! Things will probably work out for them in the end, but it's not a very promising beginning for Tom! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wicked Wop Posted May 27, 2004 Share Posted May 27, 2004 This is why I was completely against him coming here, when some posters and news agencies listed him as a potential candidate. He will (if he already hasn't) wear out his welcome very quickly. I know the who discipline thing comes up, but million dollare athletes don't (and in some cases stand for) want boot camp style coaches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonny Joe Hog Posted May 27, 2004 Share Posted May 27, 2004 From Day One I believed that hiring Coughlin was a disaster and everything he has done since then seems to me to confirm my belief. Jim Fassell should have been retained. The G-Men had an injury problem - not a discipline problem - last year. Players will accept discipline and play hard for a Head Coach they respect and admire. But if they just plain hate their Head Coach, they will become distracted, lose focus and be unable to develop team spirit and the will to win. I still believe that the Giants are going to pay a steep price in losses for hiring Coughlin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fish Posted May 27, 2004 Author Share Posted May 27, 2004 On the other hand............. it's possible that this is EXACTLY what they need, a short, sharp, shock as Pink Floyd would say! Once people got over the shock, Marty's techniques started to pay dividends. Tom, thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonard Washington Posted May 27, 2004 Share Posted May 27, 2004 no one mentions couglin's last years where he was runnig his team ragged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted May 27, 2004 Share Posted May 27, 2004 Originally posted by fish On the other hand............. it's possible that this is EXACTLY what they need, a short, sharp, shock as Pink Floyd would say! Once people got over the shock, Marty's techniques started to pay dividends. Tom, thoughts? Except this isn't true, Fish. The team never got over the shock with Marty. His techniques never started to pay dividends. Don't you recall the team meeting in which the team essentially emerged with the largely unifying belief that they need to ignore the coach and start playing for themselves? That wasn't paying dividends by or for Marty. That was a mutiny he lost. Once he lost the team in that way he could never have entered the following season with the bulk of that roster. I have no doubt that given time, he could have swept away people against him and replaced them with those that did and grown to be a success. I think Coughlin can do some of the same. This year will drive out those not with his program. Next year will get guys who are with it or at least new to it. In Year 3 the Giants could be very good as the guys who are sick of him won't be there by then. Unfortunately though in D.C., Marty blew it. He was met with a mutiny and he caved. I'm glad he caved because he was misusing the whole team and at least got it used to a point of effectiveness, but, once he caved the players would never have listened to him as a team again. He would have had to cut out a huge number and started over. Again, that would have been fine by me for the most part. I just think it's false to say the team ever took to him or his methods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awesome Posted May 27, 2004 Share Posted May 27, 2004 Just goes to show there's such a fine line between instilling discipline and having it work well or having it blow up in your face. Should be an interesting season in NY. As fans, glad we'll be looking in at the situation rather than looking out from it, ala Marty-ville 2001. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckster714 Posted May 27, 2004 Share Posted May 27, 2004 Yeah he is a horses rear.He would make the Jags work out in 100 degree weather during twice a days in full pads and uni's.Man I'll tell you goys were :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: all over the place.The players complained that by the time the season started they were wore out.Down here he had the say about everything to down to what color the halls were painted.A real dictator attitude:gaintsuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chachie Posted May 27, 2004 Share Posted May 27, 2004 That's the kind of atmosphere Mark Brunell made his career in. He must think the Giants are a bunch of sissies! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rfdc Posted May 27, 2004 Share Posted May 27, 2004 from fish: On the other hand.............it's possible that this is EXACTLY what they need, a short, sharp, shock as Pink Floyd would say!Once people got over the shock, Marty's techniques started to pay dividends. Tom, thoughts? exactly fish! This year, don't believe the hype! Hey, until I see Tom(Giantsfan) panicking, I will not even speculate "why" and what is up with their training camp. I have seen some of the best players ever, either play sports or perform on stage, but in practice, I never saw some suck so bad! Jim Brown was a joke in practice, I saw more out takes from some of the greatest actors (do these folks smoke the best sh88 in town or what?) and I have seen Frank Howard look like those guys in a hardware store,or an over sized accountant, yet when in the box - bam! HR! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom [Giants fan] Posted May 28, 2004 Share Posted May 28, 2004 This is ludicrous speculation several months into Coughlin's tenure. Is he tough? Yes. Has there been trouble? Yup. Did he find out one of the complainers? Sure did. Did he chew his @ss completely out in front of the rest of the team? Oh yeah. Is this all bad for the Giants? In the words of Stone Cold Steve Austin, Oh he!! nooooo!! Whether anyone here believes it or not, Coughlin is what the Giants needed. Fassel lost something along the way. The big reason he didn't get a coaching job was because the interviewers sensed burn out on the part of Fassel. This was according to media info here in New York. Fassel had his team quit on him last year. There were a ton of injuries and the Giants would not have been a 4-12 team had they not suffered all those injuries but that was also part of the FO's fault. They didn't acquire proper depth. They have done that this year. Partly due to Coughlin's expertise at evaluating talent. A lot of guys he got rid of were not tough, football guys. The only move I disagree with is getting rid of Michael Barrow. Everything else I am on board with what the Giants have done. But there is no panic at all on my part. There is going to be a ton of competition for the first time in a long time at a Giants training camp and preseason. I am actually very excited. Art did make a good point in that it will probably take some time for Coughlin to get the team at the point where he can make them serious contenders. I figured it would be year two but right now the QB position is up in the air. If Manning ends up sitting behind Kurt Warner this year, he may need one year of learning from the bench and one year on the field. If he starts right away, I could definitely see the Giants in the playoffs in 2005. I've conceded 2004 as a non playoff year for the GMen but I've done that before and been wrong. Actually, a lot of people have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dallsux Posted May 28, 2004 Share Posted May 28, 2004 Originally posted by Chachie That's the kind of atmosphere Mark Brunell made his career in. He must think the Giants are a bunch of sissies! :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :gaintsuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dallsux Posted May 28, 2004 Share Posted May 28, 2004 Originally posted by Tom [Giants fan] This is ludicrous speculation several months into Coughlin's tenure. Is he tough? Yes. Has there been trouble? Yup. Did he find out one of the complainers? Sure did. Did he chew his @ss completely out in front of the rest of the team? Oh yeah. Is this all bad for the Giants? In the words of Stone Cold Steve Austin, Oh he!! nooooo!! Whether anyone here believes it or not, Coughlin is what the Giants needed. Fassel lost something along the way. The big reason he didn't get a coaching job was because the interviewers sensed burn out on the part of Fassel. This was according to media info here in New York. Fassel had his team quit on him last year. There were a ton of injuries and the Giants would not have been a 4-12 team had they not suffered all those injuries but that was also part of the FO's fault. They didn't acquire proper depth. They have done that this year. Partly due to Coughlin's expertise at evaluating talent. A lot of guys he got rid of were not tough, football guys. The only move I disagree with is getting rid of Michael Barrow. Everything else I am on board with what the Giants have done. But there is no panic at all on my part. There is going to be a ton of competition for the first time in a long time at a Giants training camp and preseason. I am actually very excited. Art did make a good point in that it will probably take some time for Coughlin to get the team at the point where he can make them serious contenders. I figured it would be year two but right now the QB position is up in the air. If Manning ends up sitting behind Kurt Warner this year, he may need one year of learning from the bench and one year on the field. If he starts right away, I could definitely see the Giants in the playoffs in 2005. I've conceded 2004 as a non playoff year for the GMen but I've done that before and been wrong. Actually, a lot of people have. You are right that all this speculation is ludacris(Ha ha). Just because Martyball didn't really work out here doesn't mean that it won't work in NY. I always remember the G-Man being tough competitors, even in their bad years when they weren't winning much. But, in the 80's the Redskins & Giants ruled the NFC East, almost the whole of the NFC. The only other competitor in the NFC at that time was the 49ers. Do I see this going bad for the Giants? Absolutely. Why? Because this isn't the 80's anymore. However, they are still fierce competitors & Fassel nearly took that out of them. Redskins v. Giants have been a rivalry for much longer than the Cowpokes have even existed. In fact, the highest scoring game in NFL history is between the 2 teams. I believe it was in the 60's, we beat the Giants 73-41 (my numbers are a little hazy, I just got off work a little while ago, but I'm sure that was the score). Also, because there has been so much bad press about this situation, it could really cause some bad blood between the players & the coaching staff. When the real training camp starts, how are they gonna respond to working out harder than some of these guys ever have before? It could get really ugly in NY. Do I see this going really good for the Giants? Absolutely. Why? Because Coughlin is a great coach & has the will power to turn a soft team into a tough one. It will definately take a couple of seasons, but I can see them getting consistantly better over the next couple of seasons. Because of the overall feeling towards him on the team now, they will most likely have a similar season as last season, but it won't last. They will get better, you can bank on that! If anything, they are the one group of NFC East fans (aside from the obvious Redskins fans) that I can truly get along with. They are the only fans, aside from Redskins fans, that really seem willing to view things realistically instead of trying to pump their team in front of us making it out like they are the greatest thing to come out of the NFL/AFL merger. Are all Giants fans like that? H*ll no, but then neither are all Redskins fans. But I run into more Redskins fans that are willing to be realistic about our chances the next season (regardless of the season) than Cowpokes & Iggles fans. Every year I hear the same crap for both of them. Cowpokes fans seem to think that they will ALWAYS beat us because they have had that string of good fortune for longer than I'd like to mention & Iggles fans think that because they have won 3 NFC East titles & lost...oops, I mean been to...3 NFCC games in a row, that their good fortune will continue simply because they have McNabb. I talk to Giants fans who are more likely to look at their situation & say that they are in for a couple of slow years, but it will get better. So, things could really go either way for them. Right now, it's up in the air & to say one way or the other with any certainty is insane. I would like to see Tom (Coughlin) fail only because he coaches a division rival, but as I have always said, Anyone but Dallas! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
worm Posted May 28, 2004 Share Posted May 28, 2004 Wow. I can't believe I was sitting here waiting for Tom(GiantsFan) to speak up and when he did I agreed with him. As I was reading the posts I was thinking: 1. This is all Media crap going on in NY. (They love it) 2. Coughlin is a good coach and has proven it. 3. Fassel looked like he was on something at the end of last year. 4. Giants had no Backups last year. Thanks Tom.. (I liked the Austin reference too) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoCalMike Posted May 28, 2004 Share Posted May 28, 2004 Coughlin is the last thing the veterns of the Giants need, but it might actually help the younger players some. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubba9497 Posted May 28, 2004 Share Posted May 28, 2004 Did he chew his @ss completely out in front of the rest of the team? Oh yeah. Is this all bad for the Giants? In the words of Stone Cold Steve Austin, Oh he!! nooooo!! But the Giants were in the wrong.... Tommy got caught, then he rips someone who narced on him... :laugh: Nope things like that brings a team together Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fish Posted May 28, 2004 Author Share Posted May 28, 2004 Originally posted by Art Except this isn't true, Fish. The team never got over the shock with Marty. His techniques never started to pay dividends. Don't you recall the team meeting in which the team essentially emerged with the largely unifying belief that they need to ignore the coach and start playing for themselves? That wasn't paying dividends by or for Marty. That was a mutiny he lost. Once he lost the team in that way he could never have entered the following season with the bulk of that roster. I have no doubt that given time, he could have swept away people against him and replaced them with those that did and grown to be a success. Unfortunately though in D.C., Marty blew it. He was met with a mutiny and he caved. I'm glad he caved because he was misusing the whole team and at least got it used to a point of effectiveness, but, once he caved the players would never have listened to him as a team again. He would have had to cut out a huge number and started over. Again, that would have been fine by me for the most part. I just think it's false to say the team ever took to him or his methods. Art, ya might be right. It's been awhile ago now and quite a few things have happened since then and now and I might be remembering it wrong - seriously no sarcasm here. I kind agree and disagree with your point. I do agree that the players were bummed and NOT HAPPY and they might not have ever "took to him or his methods". But I do think his methods influenced the team, whether or not the team was sitting in the locker room singing his praises. That was a team that went winless the first what? 5 or 6 games and then went on an equal amount of games winning streak? That was the FIRST TEAM EVER to do that. We've seen numerous teams that begin that way, finish that way and go 2-14, 3-13 etc. Those are the teams that commit mutiny, kinda like the Giants last year. They quit. They quit on their coach, on their fans on each other. But the Skins under Marty didn't. I think that comes from mental and physical toughness and I think in that case it came from Marty. We almost made the playoffs that year winning some tough games like beating a tough winning Denver squad in the snow and sleet at Mile High. To think that the players did this by themselves is naive. The players might have thought they were rallying against the coach and that they all hated the coach and were playing with a "we'll show him" attitude but that is a form of leadership, leadership that came from Marty. That's a "push" style where Marty was pushing the pile up the hill whereas Gibbs exudes a "pull" style. Gibbs walks up the hill in front of the pack and the players will gladly follow. I think the pull method is MOST DEF a better method but the pull style is valid too, especially if your taking over a team that was described as the "Club Med" of the NFL. How often have we seen children, fold their arms, pout, kick rocks as they end up going up to their rooms and actually clean it. There might be alot of pissing and moaning, but the room gets cleaned. I do remember some sort of players meeting. And I do remember players meeting with the coaching staff where they came to some sort of middle ground. What I remember is thet they got together, got some things off both of their collective chests and went forward and salvaged a season. You're right though, alot of those guys were going to have to go the next year, and I too don't necessarily think that would have been a bad thing either. But by the end of that year Marty had placed his stamp on the team. They were playing hard nosed, ball control, NFC East style of football. I remember watching Davis pummel the Cardinals into submission in the rain and sleet in the last game of the season, and the announcer making comments like, "there are teams going into the playoffs that wish they could do what the Skins are doing now". We were one 4th quarter Davis fumble against Dallas and one fake field goal against da Bears away from making the playoffs. The players might not have "bought into that" but I think Marty's methods were the reason a team could recover from that kind of start to finish in that way. It's like what GEN Cody said when taking over the 1st "Big Red 1" Infantry Division in France from a lovable previous Division Commander, "It's better to come off as a Son-ofa-Biyatch" and then grow into an easier guy to work for, than the other way around". Seriously though, you might be remembering it more accurately than I am. I've done 2 wars and 2 masters degrees in that timeframe and I'm about as mentally smoked as I've ever been. Heck, I might even be remembering and combining different seasons. Another argument aginst my point is that Marty has been in San Diego now 3 or 4 seasons? AND THEY STILL SUCK!! But just because player don't like it or buy into it, doesn't mean it's not effective. There was a fine line between respect and hate with Lombardis and Bear Bryants players too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NavyDave Posted May 28, 2004 Share Posted May 28, 2004 Actually a team that was 4-12 and obviously tanked don't have room to b1tch. If anything this will probably allow Coughlin to go to the owner and hand him a list of guys not with the program and becoming june 1st cuts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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