Gamebreaker Posted January 19, 2004 Share Posted January 19, 2004 Originally posted by DrunkenBoxer Career Defining Game Changing showings: Manning: 1 Champ: 0 take from it what you will. -DB Champ had more game changing moments in his rookie season than Manning has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamebreaker Posted January 19, 2004 Share Posted January 19, 2004 Originally posted by DrunkenBoxer Champs MO is no minuses. He has never been a player who accumulates plusses. EVER. Don't start questioning that, or you look like a fool. I don't think you are questioning that though, I think you're just not paying attention. I'm questioning it, and proving it wrong. In his rookie season Champ had 3 picks, one he took to the house aganist Plummer and the Cardinals. That destroys the whole "never ever" stance. No, Champ doesn't take many risk. Yet I also can recall Darrell Green playing by the same philosophy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ignatius J. Posted January 19, 2004 Share Posted January 19, 2004 Glad you're at least using some facts. I can't find a box score of the game you are referring to, so I just looked up the final scores of those games, 28-3 and 24-10. Jake plummer threw 24 ints that year in 12 games, and champ played him twice, so 3 ints sounds about right. but still, beating up the worst team in the division should hardly count in a year when we went to the playoffs, but games are games and no game is a gimme. More pressing though is the fact that as the redskins have gone, so has champ. He made plays his rookie year when the rest of the team was good enough to go to the playoffs. He sucked as they sucked this past year. HE seems only as good as his supporting cast, which to me is an endictment of his playmaker status. manning and law had amazing performances today to get thier teams into the superbowl. Up against superior talent, they made the plays that will be remembered for years to come. Somehow, champs performance against a third year QB at the helm of one of the worst franchises in sports history doesn't quite compare. I would never go so far as to say that I believe manning is a superior CB to Champ, so don't put words in my mouth. It's not even close. But champ has not yet done these things, and it is a strike against him. and about that contract stuff.... we'll see how it goes. Champ has left no room for interpretation on his feelings towards staying in DC. He is not happy here. Perhaps the return of gibbs and the almighty dollar will soften his stance, but it may not. For now, we'll wait and see. All we know is he rejected a contract that would have made him the highest paid CB in NFL history. -DB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troy Fakeman Posted January 19, 2004 Share Posted January 19, 2004 Champ is ridiculous, you are all misinformed.........with the right coaching he is better than EVERYONE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TODD Posted January 19, 2004 Share Posted January 19, 2004 Law's older, doofus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbooma Posted January 19, 2004 Share Posted January 19, 2004 Originally posted by TODD Law's older, doofus. true but doesn't get burned as much, Law right now is the better player, Champ has the better potential Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thinking Skins Posted January 19, 2004 Share Posted January 19, 2004 All I want to say on this subject is that before last offseason, when we had all the scruitiny with Champ rejecting the offer from us, we were talking about how sorry Fred Smoot was and how he should be traded because of his sophomore slump. At the same time, we were congratulating Champ because of the hell of a season he played in 2003, going through many games injured. The thing that stands out to me in 2003 is that we actually had a pass rush in 2003. We had a defense then, so it was easier for him to make plays. People are mad cause Champ said he wants a big contract. What's the dude supposed to say. You act like he's arrogant or something. He wouldn't have said anything about the contracts if the reporters didnt repeatedly ask him questions about it. And if a reporter asks you blatently, "Do you want a big contract", as they were doing Champ this offseason, how do you think he's gonna respond, "Well I'd he happy signing for the veteran minimum". I mean, I should probably be congratulating the reporters cause they've done what they were supposed to do in making Bailey the hated guy on the team. But they would ask him obvious questions, and then when he responds to the questions, they make an article quoting him saying that he has "CONTRACT DEMANDS". AND WHATS WORSE IS THAT WE BELIEVE IT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Mike Posted January 19, 2004 Share Posted January 19, 2004 Originally posted by Gibbs_Rulez Some of you guys in here are stupid. You are judging Champ on one season when he was not 100% healthy, Had a bad D-Coordinator, and had to guard his man about 9 seconds every pass play because of the weak d-line!!! Then you say, yet he got burned and all that stuff. Ty law never got burned?? Everyone CB, I don't care who you is, is gonna get burned by a WR for a TD sometime in their career. Why do you think Gregg Williams and Gibbs want him so much. Some of you people truly know nothing about football. 1) can we keep theis civil? Not just you but anyone calling others stupid or morons. There are times when it's understandable. When a real moron shows up you will know it, but for now, all I see is a disagreement of reasonable opinions. 2) Smoot was injured several times this year as well. He played on the same poor D with the same poor pass rush and the same rookie DC and he STILL had a much better year than Champ. Champ is a good corner with the physical skills to be great. If he ever get's it through his head that he can't live off his reputation and needs to work on improving every game, I'll be happy to jump back in his corner. Champ brought the venom upon himself by starting the year talking about how great he was and telling us all how much he want's to get paid. If you are going to run your mouth like that you had better back it up. If not, you deserve all the heat you get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dieselfan44 Posted January 19, 2004 Share Posted January 19, 2004 I agree with D-Line being our main problem. Our Line has been better in years past therefore Champ was more successful then. ESPN and Fox the two networks that get my pre-game attention have stated several times during the year that Champ is one of the best shutdown corners in the game. Boost up that line and watch Champ get 6 to 8 int's next year. Smoot should be good for some also. I think his stock is rising. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fish Posted January 19, 2004 Share Posted January 19, 2004 Who was the first people Ty recognized for his INTs? His DL! We gotta get one if we want toget he value out of having Champ and Smooty in our backfield. PLAIN and SIMPLE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hogwash Posted January 19, 2004 Share Posted January 19, 2004 I don't think I've ever seen Champ get burnt per se. They rarely test him deep, the only time thay trow to his side is when the throw underneath. And as far a Smoot being injured too, he had the bruised sternum and missed a few games, he never played hurt like Champ did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Tater Posted January 19, 2004 Share Posted January 19, 2004 The main problem I noticed with our pass coverage was that the opposing qbs had lanes to throw through forcing our dbs to have to cover all possible places where the ball could be thrown. In 2001, we controlled the pass lanes (though we couldn't get to the qb) which allowed the dbs to play a different technique. You'll notice they often kept the opposing recievers in front of them. I also noticed that by giving them the opposing team so much time to throw, the opposing team could regularly go with patterns that took a longer time to develop, forcing our dbs to at least respect those routes as possible choices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hogwash Posted January 19, 2004 Share Posted January 19, 2004 Looks like you've been reading the "Idiots Guide to Defensive Strategy" Good observation Makhpia-Luta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brandies Posted January 19, 2004 Share Posted January 19, 2004 What does "the" mean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KTrainSkinsFan Posted January 19, 2004 Share Posted January 19, 2004 Originally posted by Hogwash I don't think I've ever seen Champ get burnt per se. They rarely test him deep, the only time thay trow to his side is when the throw underneath. And as far a Smoot being injured too, he had the bruised sternum and missed a few games, he never played hurt like Champ did. Champ did get toasted in the NY game. Smoot did play injured (sternum) in the Dallas game. Smoot had a better year than Champ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KTrainSkinsFan Posted January 19, 2004 Share Posted January 19, 2004 Everybody is talking about Ty Law has a great scheme, yadda yadda yadda... What are you guys talking about?? What Ty Law did against Indy was all Ty Law. Even if you give credit to the defensive pressure up front, as a CB you still have to have a nose for the ball and good reading of the QB. That's what Ty Law did in this game, I think it had less to do with 'scheme" than people think. The one interception where he actually played off his assigned man and read Manning for the int was just great individual play. Champ is a great cover corner but he doesn't have that play making, nose for the ball ability that some of the high echelon CB's do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
>>Spearhead>> Posted January 20, 2004 Share Posted January 20, 2004 Gamebreaker, did you go to Georgia and have a brother named Boss? Just tell us what we wanna know, Champ! Do you want to stay or leave? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamebreaker Posted January 20, 2004 Share Posted January 20, 2004 Originally posted by DrunkenBoxer Glad you're at least using some facts. More pressing though is the fact that as the redskins have gone, so has champ. He made plays his rookie year when the rest of the team was good enough to go to the playoffs. He sucked as they sucked this past year. HE seems only as good as his supporting cast, which to me is an endictment of his playmaker status. and about that contract stuff.... we'll see how it goes. Champ has left no room for interpretation on his feelings towards staying in DC. He is not happy here. Perhaps the return of gibbs and the almighty dollar will soften his stance, but it may not. For now, we'll wait and see. All we know is he rejected a contract that would have made him the highest paid CB in NFL history. -DB Take it from someone who is studying to be a sports agent, there is a lot more to high priced contracts than the bottom line. If he Champ wouldn't sign that contract, no one should be assuming and guessing it's because the money wasn't enough for him. It obviously was if he said he didn't want the type of contract Lavar had, and it is also obviously the contract wasn't structured to his liking. This seems very hard for some posters to understand. I have no clue why, when Cerrato has a history of offering backloaded, poorly structured contracts and Champ's agent even did a breakdown of what was wrong with the contract. Whether you feel the game was significant or not doesn't matter to me. You said Champ has never had the type of game that Law and Manning had last weekend, I proved to you that he HAS and his game was even better. Let us also not forget that those two games Manning/Law had last weekend were their best ever games. Let us also not forget that Manning is a rookie, and relatively unknown in which he may develop from here, although his career does look promising. Also, Ty Law has endured more than one "down" season or type of season Champ had this year. So is Law automatically better than Champ because he had his best season in the same year Champ had his worse? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamebreaker Posted January 20, 2004 Share Posted January 20, 2004 Originally posted by Mad Mike Champ brought the venom upon himself by starting the year talking about how great he was and telling us all how much he want's to get paid. If you are going to run your mouth like that you had better back it up. If not, you deserve all the heat you get. Wow. I guess you missed ALL the quotes where he repeatedly said he didn't want to talk about the contract, or himself, and just wanted to the team to win games. Oh yeah, reporters usually on publish his quotes after they've asked him the same questions for the 25th time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamebreaker Posted January 20, 2004 Share Posted January 20, 2004 Originally posted by KTrainSkinsFan Everybody is talking about Ty Law has a great scheme, yadda yadda yadda... What are you guys talking about?? What Ty Law did against Indy was all Ty Law. Even if you give credit to the defensive pressure up front, as a CB you still have to have a nose for the ball and good reading of the QB. That's what Ty Law did in this game, I think it had less to do with 'scheme" than people think. The one interception where he actually played off his assigned man and read Manning for the int was just great individual play. Champ is a great cover corner but he doesn't have that play making, nose for the ball ability that some of the high echelon CB's do. So I guess Law was just lying when he said he had his DL to thank for those INT's. Please bestow us with more of your great football knowledge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texskin Posted January 20, 2004 Share Posted January 20, 2004 Originally posted by Hitman56 Smoot was better than Champ this year. Smooty is a better corner now than Champ...opposing teams never throw at him. Comprende?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KTrainSkinsFan Posted January 20, 2004 Share Posted January 20, 2004 Originally posted by Gamebreaker So I guess Law was just lying when he said he had his DL to thank for those INT's. Please bestow us with more of your great football knowledge. Look, you can keep making excuses for the guy all you want. The fact is, he doesn't make the big time plays...How long can you blame that on DLine...give me a break Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KTrainSkinsFan Posted January 20, 2004 Share Posted January 20, 2004 Originally posted by Gamebreaker So I guess Law was just lying when he said he had his DL to thank for those INT's. Please bestow us with more of your great football knowledge. Also, are you contending that in order to be an aggressive play making CB you NEED a DLine....that would be a hard argument to make. The only thing you can say is that it helps, which I agree, but it isn't necessary. AND, if you are supposedly the "best CB in football" I would say that DLine help should be even less of a factor. I could be wrong but I don't think Deion had the greatest DLine in Atlanta. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamebreaker Posted January 20, 2004 Share Posted January 20, 2004 Originally posted by KTrainSkinsFan Everybody is talking about Ty Law has a great scheme, yadda yadda yadda... What are you guys talking about?? What Ty Law did against Indy was all Ty Law. Even if you give credit to the defensive pressure up front, as a CB you still have to have a nose for the ball and good reading of the QB. That's what Ty Law did in this game, I think it had less to do with 'scheme" than people think. The one interception where he actually played off his assigned man and read Manning for the int was just great individual play. Champ is a great cover corner but he doesn't have that play making, nose for the ball ability that some of the high echelon CB's do. So I guess Law was just lying when he said he had his DL to thank for those INT's. Please bestow us with more of your great football knowledge. I would love to see you actually try to cover every team's best reciever while your DL doesn't come close to pressuring the QB. You see, pressuring the QB means more than getting pressure on him on that particular play. It comes from a QB constantly being hounded play after play, the way Manning was last weekend, the way Ramsey was nearly all season, that is a pass rush. That is why Manning was throwing bad passes almost straight to Law with no one close to sacking him, because he'd been harassed all day long and the result was what happens to even the best QB's in the league. Mistakes. You think Law's play has less to do with scheme, when Belichick's scheme made even Otis Smith look good? :twitch: Yes, Otis freakin' Smith! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay Master Jay Posted January 20, 2004 Share Posted January 20, 2004 Deion sucked in Atlanta I remember when Jerry Rice was torching Deion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.