A sign we simply don't have the right players now.

[Art]

I'm watching everything I can watch Redskin related last night. Listening to all the quotes from the players who to a man said they know Gibbs by reputation, but all of them seemed really to be completely unsure what the hire means. You've got Patrick Ramsey on with Joe Theismann with Joe being so damn effusive and positive you wouldn't believe it, but Pat just kind of quizzical. Asked directly what he expects the difference to be he answers dumbly that since he's only been with Spurrier he really doesn't know what to expect.

I couldn't put my thumb on it, but somewhat was just odd about that. Or struck me as odd. All of the guys had some form of the same, "Don't know. Hope it's positive." feel to them. And then I watched Tre Johnson on Comcast. Don Warren is beaming like he just nailed the best looking cheerleader in school, and Chick goes to Tre and asks the question about players his age who don't really know Gibbs on anything but reputation and Tre said what was wrong with all of the guys, "Show me."

He said as a player you hear all that but you don't believe it. You need to have it shown to you to believe. And then it hit me what we're missing on this team. What we may have been missing for years. In our special group of entitled little brats, Joe Gibbs has to SHOW them something for them to come around.

To them, Gibbs is just a name. They just don't get it. Gibbs has shown everyone who he is and what he can do. These players should have been saying from the jump that THEY are the ones who have to SHOW him something. They are the failures. The overrated, way too highly paid group of great individuals who can't seem to run a called defense.

When Joe Gibbs comes in here, these guys should be holding their hats in their hands saying, "We have to show Joe Gibbs we can win for him." Joe is beyond having to prove himself. He's beyond having to validate himself to these little ****es we sometimes have as players. It didn't register at the time watching Ramsey or Trotter or the rest of them, but what I wanted to see from Ramsey was more than a cautious smile and I don't know. It was a cautious smile, an I don't know and, "We have to give him everything he wants from us."

You show Joe. Don't ask or expect him to show you anything.

[Art]

I'm watching everything I can watch Redskin related last night. Listening to all the quotes from the players who to a man said they know Gibbs by reputation, but all of them seemed really to be completely unsure what the hire means. You've got Patrick Ramsey on with Joe Theismann with Joe being so damn effusive and positive you wouldn't believe it, but Pat just kind of quizzical. Asked directly what he expects the difference to be he answers dumbly that since he's only been with Spurrier he really doesn't know what to expect.

I couldn't put my thumb on it, but somewhat was just odd about that. Or struck me as odd. All of the guys had some form of the same, "Don't know. Hope it's positive." feel to them. And then I watched Tre Johnson on Comcast. Don Warren is beaming like he just nailed the best looking cheerleader in school, and Chick goes to Tre and asks the question about players his age who don't really know Gibbs on anything but reputation and Tre said what was wrong with all of the guys, "Show me."

He said as a player you hear all that but you don't believe it. You need to have it shown to you to believe. And then it hit me what we're missing on this team. What we may have been missing for years. In our special group of entitled little brats, Joe Gibbs has to SHOW them something for them to come around.

To them, Gibbs is just a name. They just don't get it. Gibbs has shown everyone who he is and what he can do. These players should have been saying from the jump that THEY are the ones who have to SHOW him something. They are the failures. The overrated, way too highly paid group of great individuals who can't seem to run a called defense.

When Joe Gibbs comes in here, these guys should be holding their hats in their hands saying, "We have to show Joe Gibbs we can win for him." Joe is beyond having to prove himself. He's beyond having to validate himself to these little ****es we sometimes have as players. It didn't register at the time watching Ramsey or Trotter or the rest of them, but what I wanted to see from Ramsey was more than a cautious smile and I don't know. It was a cautious smile, an I don't know and, "We have to give him everything he wants from us."

You show Joe. Don't ask or expect him to show you anything.

[Skeletor The Invincible]

The vibe I got from Ramsey was one of a "losing mentality". He knew someone great is coming to coach the Redskins, he just hopes that it'll work out, while all the time just waiting for something bad to happen.

I hope this will be one of the first things fix, the perception that "something bad" will not always happen.

[Skeletor The Invincible]

The vibe I got from Ramsey was one of a "losing mentality". He knew someone great is coming to coach the Redskins, he just hopes that it'll work out, while all the time just waiting for something bad to happen.

I hope this will be one of the first things fix, the perception that "something bad" will not always happen.

[Ghost of]

Agreed, Art.

I mean, maybe as players who haven't played under Gibbs, you aren't going to be jumping up and down, but I do want to say that a good number of players were said to be all smiles today.

Are they at the level of the guys who played with Gibbs? No. But they're not all being cautious.

It is rather offensive that a bunch of losers can even IMPLY in a statement that a Hall of Fame coach and stand-up man has to "show" them anything.

Fortunately, they'll know they've been shown when they are running the same play from the thirtieth formation in the second hour of their two-a-days. And when they are bewildered at the taste of shoe rubber in their mouth and the pain in their rectum after a false start, they'll know they've just been "shown."

[Ghost of]

Agreed, Art.

I mean, maybe as players who haven't played under Gibbs, you aren't going to be jumping up and down, but I do want to say that a good number of players were said to be all smiles today.

Are they at the level of the guys who played with Gibbs? No. But they're not all being cautious.

It is rather offensive that a bunch of losers can even IMPLY in a statement that a Hall of Fame coach and stand-up man has to "show" them anything.

Fortunately, they'll know they've been shown when they are running the same play from the thirtieth formation in the second hour of their two-a-days. And when they are bewildered at the taste of shoe rubber in their mouth and the pain in their rectum after a false start, they'll know they've just been "shown."

[Saqs]

I disagree. I believe it is Gibbs' job to make them believers. Dont get me wrong. St. Joes credentials speak for themselves showing that he's been there and can get it done. But you have to give these players that havent had the experience of being under a HOF level coach the benefit of the doubt. They REALLY dont know what to expect. All they can go by is what they've heard. You see his former players beaming and glowing beacuse they DO KNOW what to expect and they're excited for the players that are going to now experience what they did.

I see nothing wrong with the players being guardingly optimistic at this point. But that all WILL change.

[Saqs]

I disagree. I believe it is Gibbs' job to make them believers. Dont get me wrong. St. Joes credentials speak for themselves showing that he's been there and can get it done. But you have to give these players that havent had the experience of being under a HOF level coach the benefit of the doubt. They REALLY dont know what to expect. All they can go by is what they've heard. You see his former players beaming and glowing beacuse they DO KNOW what to expect and they're excited for the players that are going to now experience what they did.

I see nothing wrong with the players being guardingly optimistic at this point. But that all WILL change.

[Om]

Maybe this is what the folks who say Gibbs may not understand how the game has changed are talking about. I admit that, watching Trotter and McCants and Haley and even Samuels make comments last night, I was struck by how different they sounded than the guys who were here under Gibbs the first time around.

The sense of entitlement in the players, which I don't truly believe is unique to the Redskins, is something that I've worried about, too.

But when I look around the league, and see teams that DO play hard and play well and compete for championships and seemingly leave it all on the field for their coaches ... I remember that they are working with "today's players" as well.

So while Joe may in fact find the culture in the locker room changed ... based on the surpassing organizational, motivational and personal skills he's shown not only in football but subsequently, I honestly don't think it will take him very long to indentify the guys he CAN go to war with, co-opt them as lieutenants, and then set about changing the "show me" attitude into something rather more inspiring.

Hey sue me ... this is fun, again.

[Om]

Maybe this is what the folks who say Gibbs may not understand how the game has changed are talking about. I admit that, watching Trotter and McCants and Haley and even Samuels make comments last night, I was struck by how different they sounded than the guys who were here under Gibbs the first time around.

The sense of entitlement in the players, which I don't truly believe is unique to the Redskins, is something that I've worried about, too.

But when I look around the league, and see teams that DO play hard and play well and compete for championships and seemingly leave it all on the field for their coaches ... I remember that they are working with "today's players" as well.

So while Joe may in fact find the culture in the locker room changed ... based on the surpassing organizational, motivational and personal skills he's shown not only in football but subsequently, I honestly don't think it will take him very long to indentify the guys he CAN go to war with, co-opt them as lieutenants, and then set about changing the "show me" attitude into something rather more inspiring.

Hey sue me ... this is fun, again.

[Dan T.]

I think this is a case of reading too much into a television interview. These players are in a no-win situation with fans anytime someone sticks a microphone in their faces, the way their every word is analyzed and parsed. I wish I had a dollar for every time someone on this board told a player to "just shut up and play" in reaction to some innocuous, cliche ridden statement the player said.

I saw Ramsey interviewed by George Michael. George was so excited he must have already creamed his pants, and Patrick was trying his best to give reasonable answers to George's questions. Michaels almost berated Patrick for not being as giddy as he himself was. Ridiculous.

Nobody has to show anybody anything. Joe Gibbs will take the practice field and work his magic. The force of his personality, his system, his attention to detail, his experience, and the experience of his coaching staff will transform the players and the organization. Don't get in a tizzy because the players aren't giggling like school girls that Gibbs is here, even though we are.

[Dan T.]

I think this is a case of reading too much into a television interview. These players are in a no-win situation with fans anytime someone sticks a microphone in their faces, the way their every word is analyzed and parsed. I wish I had a dollar for every time someone on this board told a player to "just shut up and play" in reaction to some innocuous, cliche ridden statement the player said.

I saw Ramsey interviewed by George Michael. George was so excited he must have already creamed his pants, and Patrick was trying his best to give reasonable answers to George's questions. Michaels almost berated Patrick for not being as giddy as he himself was. Ridiculous.

Nobody has to show anybody anything. Joe Gibbs will take the practice field and work his magic. The force of his personality, his system, his attention to detail, his experience, and the experience of his coaching staff will transform the players and the organization. Don't get in a tizzy because the players aren't giggling like school girls that Gibbs is here, even though we are.

[Larry]

The thought did occurr to me that, for a lot of our players, Joe Gibbs retired when they were what, 12 years old? I suppose you could hope that, at that age, all our current players were at least playing some football, and that they're familiar with the era when the big topic of offseason discussion was "Who wins the Super Bowl next year, the 'Skins or the 'Niners?"

Now, I would hope, at least, that when everybody shows up for the first camp, they'll have to enter the building and walk past the three Lombardi trophys.

But I do expect that everybody on this team, after playing football in Jr High, then High School, then college, then a carrousell at the Skins (and maybe some other teams), that every one of them has seen a lot of new faces step up to the podium and spin stories of a shining future.

Maybe when they see, over the next few months, the number of assistants who're asking to come here, that'll make a difference. (Remember, there was a time in the NFL when the best thing a coaching candidate could have on his resume was "former Gibbs assistant".)

[Larry]

The thought did occurr to me that, for a lot of our players, Joe Gibbs retired when they were what, 12 years old? I suppose you could hope that, at that age, all our current players were at least playing some football, and that they're familiar with the era when the big topic of offseason discussion was "Who wins the Super Bowl next year, the 'Skins or the 'Niners?"

Now, I would hope, at least, that when everybody shows up for the first camp, they'll have to enter the building and walk past the three Lombardi trophys.

But I do expect that everybody on this team, after playing football in Jr High, then High School, then college, then a carrousell at the Skins (and maybe some other teams), that every one of them has seen a lot of new faces step up to the podium and spin stories of a shining future.

Maybe when they see, over the next few months, the number of assistants who're asking to come here, that'll make a difference. (Remember, there was a time in the NFL when the best thing a coaching candidate could have on his resume was "former Gibbs assistant".)

[endzone_dave]

I hate defending pro athletes but the Redskins players have been burned a lot lately. "Here's Marty, he's an old school guy who knows how to win." Then "Heres Steve, one of the smartest coaches in the game with an awesome system."

I can see why they're a little reserved. I doubt it will take them long to see what Gibbs is all about and they'll jump on board.

[endzone_dave]

I hate defending pro athletes but the Redskins players have been burned a lot lately. "Here's Marty, he's an old school guy who knows how to win." Then "Heres Steve, one of the smartest coaches in the game with an awesome system."

I can see why they're a little reserved. I doubt it will take them long to see what Gibbs is all about and they'll jump on board.

[thinker]

In the end, these are mostly 20 something year old kids who have seen nothing but dysfunction on the Redskins. They don't have any personal knowledge about the "good old days." They've heard the hype and excitement every year. Like any workplace, the employees get worried a bit when all your "managers" get fired. Everybody is in a bit of shock. The players have not had a chance to digest SS quiting abruptly.

I am quite confident that within the first hour of the players meeting Gibbs and his team, they will begin to see what people are talking about. After the first couple of mini-camps it will start to be pretty clear who is buying in and who isn't. We have a core of guys who, I believe, genuinely want to do what is required to win. Gibbs will give these guys a vision, that most will be able to relate to.

Even the people who win the power ball often lay low for a period of time trying to digest the magnitude of what has happened to them.

The best part of this is now WE don't have to worry because WE know the team is in the full control of the guy who WILL do the job. No more Danny and Vinny threads. This is Gibbs team now - if you can't believe in him - maybe you just can't believe.

[thinker]

In the end, these are mostly 20 something year old kids who have seen nothing but dysfunction on the Redskins. They don't have any personal knowledge about the "good old days." They've heard the hype and excitement every year. Like any workplace, the employees get worried a bit when all your "managers" get fired. Everybody is in a bit of shock. The players have not had a chance to digest SS quiting abruptly.

I am quite confident that within the first hour of the players meeting Gibbs and his team, they will begin to see what people are talking about. After the first couple of mini-camps it will start to be pretty clear who is buying in and who isn't. We have a core of guys who, I believe, genuinely want to do what is required to win. Gibbs will give these guys a vision, that most will be able to relate to.

Even the people who win the power ball often lay low for a period of time trying to digest the magnitude of what has happened to them.

The best part of this is now WE don't have to worry because WE know the team is in the full control of the guy who WILL do the job. No more Danny and Vinny threads. This is Gibbs team now - if you can't believe in him - maybe you just can't believe.

[tkatz]

I tend to disagree Art. Patrick Ramsey is regarded as a very hard worker and a stand up guy. I dont think you should take what he said as a negative but rather at face value. After being overly excited when Spurrier was signed Ramsey is now cautious of what he says. Also, I really dont think he knows what to expect. Gibbs is more of an "old school" coach who the redskins players know by reputation. They might even feel like they have another Marty coming in. I would give them the benefit of the doubt and wait to criticize until the season starts. If at that point they continue their skepticizm then lets give them hell.

[tkatz]

I tend to disagree Art. Patrick Ramsey is regarded as a very hard worker and a stand up guy. I dont think you should take what he said as a negative but rather at face value. After being overly excited when Spurrier was signed Ramsey is now cautious of what he says. Also, I really dont think he knows what to expect. Gibbs is more of an "old school" coach who the redskins players know by reputation. They might even feel like they have another Marty coming in. I would give them the benefit of the doubt and wait to criticize until the season starts. If at that point they continue their skepticizm then lets give them hell.

[UK Skins]

A big difference between Gibb's teams and the current collection of individuals is, just that.

We won Superbowls as a TEAM, most of which were decent players playing above themselves, not a bunch of "superstars" which is what we have now. Even looking around the League today the best teams seem to have players that I struggle to name, even in the skill positions. We have "famous" players in nearly every position. It isn't surprising that they don't understand the sea-change that is coming.

They were bought as stars, treated as stars and then allowed to underperform as stars. Maybe it will take Gibbs to cut a few of them and play unknown FAs in their places to realise that you need to earn the Coach's respect, not expect it.

Go Skins!!

[UK Skins]

A big difference between Gibb's teams and the current collection of individuals is, just that.

We won Superbowls as a TEAM, most of which were decent players playing above themselves, not a bunch of "superstars" which is what we have now. Even looking around the League today the best teams seem to have players that I struggle to name, even in the skill positions. We have "famous" players in nearly every position. It isn't surprising that they don't understand the sea-change that is coming.

They were bought as stars, treated as stars and then allowed to underperform as stars. Maybe it will take Gibbs to cut a few of them and play unknown FAs in their places to realise that you need to earn the Coach's respect, not expect it.

Go Skins!!

[Lowghost]

These players do not know what they are getting or they would be jumpimg for joy like the rest of us:)

They are going to find out in training camp. This will be a well organized group of coaches and that is going be the difference.

Its going to show and then the players will understand that the Redskins are going to be turned into a good football team.

[Lowghost]

These players do not know what they are getting or they would be jumpimg for joy like the rest of us:)

They are going to find out in training camp. This will be a well organized group of coaches and that is going be the difference.

Its going to show and then the players will understand that the Redskins are going to be turned into a good football team.

[joe]

I liked Samuel's response, which was replayed over the airwaves yesterday. He said that all he knew about Gibbs was that he was the one who had won those 3 trophies and that that proved that he was a winner.