Reuters: No bar exam required to practice law in Oregon starting next year

[China]

No bar exam required to practice law in Oregon starting next year

 

Law graduates will be able to become licensed in Oregon without taking the bar exam, starting in May 2024.

 

The Oregon Supreme Court on Tuesday approved an alternative licensing program that bar exam reformers hope will spur further innovation in other states. After law school, candidates will spend 675 hours working under the supervision of an experienced attorney and create a portfolio of legal work that bar officials will grade as an alternative to the traditional bar exam.

 

The program, called the Supervised Practice Portfolio Examination, will be open to graduates of both in-state and out-of-state law schools — a departure from the two existing alternative licensing programs in the country.

 

Wisconsin allows graduates of the state's two law schools to become licensed without passing the bar in what is known as a diploma privilege, and New Hampshire allows a small cohort of law students who complete a specialized curriculum to bypass the bar.

 

Those seeking to become licensed in Oregon will still have the option to take the bar exam. The State Bar of California is considering a similar alternative attorney licensing pathway.

 

The Oregon State Board of Bar Examiners, which developed the program, also plans to create a second alternative licensing pathway in which students at the state’s three law schools would spend their last two years of law school completing practice-based course work. But it decided to move forward with the supervised practice option first. Last year, 531 people took the bar exam in Oregon.

 

Click on the link for the full article

[skinsmarydu]

Wasn't it in Fahrenheit 911 that there are only like 5 state troopers to patrol their entire coastal highway?

Who needs the law to be correct?  SMH

[PleaseBlitz]

I think Kim Kardashian did something similar. Honestly, the bar exam is stupid and operates largely as a tax on law students. Doing what sounds like basically an apprenticeship makes a lot more sense if done properly. 

[dfitzo53]

44 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said:

I think Kim Kardashian did something similar. Honestly, the bar exam is stupid and operates largely as a tax on law students. Doing what sounds like basically an apprenticeship makes a lot more sense if done properly. 

This, which probably ought to be the model in a lot of industries, including education.

 

Also, that headline is poor to the point of being misleading (probably for shock value and clicks).

[skinsmarydu]

I have a friend here in GA that failed it 5 times.  He gave up. 

[LadySkinsFan]

13 hours ago, PleaseBlitz said:

I think Kim Kardashian did something similar. Honestly, the bar exam is stupid and operates largely as a tax on law students. Doing what sounds like basically an apprenticeship makes a lot more sense if done properly. 

 

In Virginia, you can do what's called "read for the law". It requires someone to work alongside of an attorney doing basically paralegal work for I think it was three years, then they could take the bar exam. It was a way to get around law school in olden times. I don't know if it's still on the law books. I asked one of my professors in paralegal school if I could do that. He said good luck finding an attorney to do that for me. So while a law, it's not practiced. 

 

Edited to add: I think reading the law meant exactly that, reading the law books to know the actual laws. I think today's law library is so huge that it's probably an impossible task.

Edited November 10, 2023 by LadySkinsFan

[tshile]

generally what I’ve seen as part of onboarding new lawyers is that for the ones just starting their career, they are told something along the lines of: you graduated law school, congrats, now come learn how this really works. Which is similar to my field, and I imagine many others. 

 

 

@PleaseBlitz I’m curious how you feel about what I see in my role in the field. Specifically i see lawyers being barred in additional states as their role or the need grows and changes. My assumption is once they’ve reached the point of passing their first bar exam, studying for a passing in other states gets a little easier. Understanding what it took the first time seems to make it easier, it seems the biggest struggle is carving out the cram time leading up to the exam and balancing it with workload and staff availability. If you are becoming a lawyer by apprenticeship instead of passing the bar exam, do you think that could seriously hurt being barred in other states? I can’t imagine anyone would opt for a second apprenticeship, due to how time consuming it would be, so they would be going through it for the first time?

 

maybe ultimately that doesn’t matter but I’m curious what you think of my assumption…

[bearrock]

41 minutes ago, tshile said:

generally what I’ve seen as part of onboarding new lawyers is that for the ones just starting their career, they are told something along the lines of: you graduated law school, congrats, now come learn how this really works. Which is similar to my field, and I imagine many others. 

 

 

@PleaseBlitz I’m curious how you feel about what I see in my role in the field. Specifically i see lawyers being barred in additional states as their role or the need grows and changes. My assumption is once they’ve reached the point of passing their first bar exam, studying for a passing in other states gets a little easier. Understanding what it took the first time seems to make it easier, it seems the biggest struggle is carving out the cram time leading up to the exam and balancing it with workload and staff availability. If you are becoming a lawyer by apprenticeship instead of passing the bar exam, do you think that could seriously hurt being barred in other states? I can’t imagine anyone would opt for a second apprenticeship, due to how time consuming it would be, so they would be going through it for the first time?

 

maybe ultimately that doesn’t matter but I’m curious what you think of my assumption…

 

Most practicing lawyers get license in other states by reciprocity or licensure process designed for licensed attorneys (which are typically open book tests and/or existing experience).  The real headache is keeping up with the annual continuing legal education requirements across states you have active license with (you can usually get credit from 1 class for all or most of your states, but then you have your exceptions here and there).  Some states are pretty closed off to reciprocity and waive ins  (like California), but if you are going to practice enough in California to require more than pro hac vice, you want to study that state's law in depth anyway.

 

Overall, more options for licensure is a good thing.  Little question in my mind that a lawyer who received their license through apprenticeship is going to be more ready for the nuts and bolts legal work on day 1 compared to a lawyer passing the bar on day 1.  At the end of the day, they are both going to be pretty unqualified and will need a lot of mentoring from their supervising partners, colleagues, local bar, etc.  My first boss had a quip for incoming associates: You're not really qualified to practice law until you gain enough confidence to say "I don't know the answer to that question.  Let me research that and get back to you."

[PleaseBlitz]

Yea, I just never understood the purpose of the bar exam.  The law is so expansive and covers so much ground.  I knew from the day I signed up to take the LSAT, before I even applied to any law schools, what kind of law I was going to focus on.  Why the hell do I need to learn divorce law?  Why do I need to learn Wills, Trusts and Estates?  I'm never going to use that and shouldn't have to prove that I learned it.  

 

Meanwhile, Virginia uses the bar exam as a way to funnel money to ****ing Roanoke.  If they wanted to make it not a huge pain in the ass for law students, it would be held in both Richmond (the state capital and where most states hold the exam) and some site in NoVa, which has the highest density of law students given it is where ASSLaw is (G. Mason) and is very close to where Gtown, GW, American and Catholic all are.  Nope, they use it as an excuse to make a few thousand students go to ****ing Roanoke, which jacks up the hotel prices for those 2 days.

[Captain Wiggles]

Yinz could do a lot worse than Roanoke kid. At least it aint Lynchburg. 🤣

 

I knew what I wanted to do with my life by 7th grade. Career aptitude test confirmed it for me then. Sacrifices were made and the subject of English was the sacrificial lamb. In an era were everyone is obsessed with pronouns it's nice not knowing what the **** they means. 

 

Edited November 10, 2023 by Captain Wiggles

[PleaseBlitz]

**** Roanoke in all respects.  If I ever find myself back in that godforsaken place, it will be too soon. 

[Captain Wiggles]

Show me on the doll where Roanoke hurt you. 🤭

 

[DCSaints_fan]

Roanoke has some of the nicest natural scenery for a small metro area or larger in Virginia.  Almost like a poor man’s California.  Not sure I’d want to actually live there.  Although for the right opportunity I think I could live just about anywhere

Edited November 10, 2023 by DCSaints_fan

[Captain Wiggles]

Decent amount of hippies in the Roanoke n New River Valley are which is kinda nice. 🤭

 

Unfortunately the dank Brazilian restaurant in Roanoke closed down. Hopefully somebody turns ol Carlos' into a new restaurant. It's in a rather scenic locale.