2024 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[Skinsinparadise]

23 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

 

 

God, if we draft Maye and Brock Bowers starts falling….

 

SIP, you talk about Maye’s accuracy to all 3 levels, processing, and NFL window throws. Kdawg sees him as a taller, faster Howell, it would seem. How do you think Howell compares with Maye in terms of accuracy to ll 3 levels, arm strength, processing, tight window throws? Strictly based on college tape.

 

I have to go back and watch Howell's college tape, its been a long time but will do so.  Off the top of my head the thing I liked more about college Howell versus the NFL Howell is his deep ball -- his accuracy seem to be better on the deep ball in college.  I liked how he put air on the ball allowing for receivers whether it was Dyami or Downs to get under it.  Drake throws a really good deep ball, too.

 

It's really hard to tell arm strength on video.  It's super easy to tell arm strength in person.  And for that reason I'll try to go to camp this year especially if they draft Maye.   To my eyes, Maye's throws have more zip, he doesn't throw with much air on his throws which I both like and dislike.  I like it from the perspective that it arrives at the destination faster.  But I don't like it from the persepctive of sometimes its better to give more hang to allow the receiver to track it. 

 

I like Maye's accuracy better in between the numbers.  I like Howell's better on out routes.   With Maye it really depends on what games or series you watch because you can see him hold on the ball too long ala Howell.  But also when he wants to do it, he is decisive with a super quick release.  This is one of the reasons why I think he can be a good pro.  That is, if he's playing a top defense in the NFL, he has it in his arsenal to make quick decisions and will get rid of the ball fast.

 

Maye's weakness accuracy wise IMO is touch on throws to the flat and off platform.  If he can sit in the pocket he can pick you apart.  Maye's isn't bad off platform but that's when his mechanics look to me out of whack where his body doesn't realign all the time to his target. 

 

Maye IMO comes off as a quicker processor with better vision than Howell.  They both can make some wicked throws when they are at their best.  But Maye makes more of them.   He also has more wow plays, no look, threw with his left hand, wicked off platform throws.  For all those here mocking his speed.  IMO he's plenty fast enough.  He remidns me of Daniel Jones on that front.  It's deceptive because he has long legs and take a step or two to build steam.  Howell has shorter legs, not as fast. 

 

As for tight window throws, I have to rewatch Howell in college, I don't recall.  Maye is willing to throw in tight windows and is good at it.  But like Howell (NFL version), he makes some ill advised throws.  He trusts his arm sometimes too much IMO. 

 

But yeah overall with Maye if you just watch him and zone in on all three levels -- his accuracy is good.   A lot of college QBs major in 1 or 2 things if you look at where they throw in the scope of the field.  There is nothing off limits with Maye.    Everything is in play.    Often when we talk about college QBs, we say they do this or that well but the rest is projection.  There isn't IMO much projection required with Maye.

Edited January 16 by Skinsinparadise

[clskinsfan]

15 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

It's really hard to tell arm strength on video

I agree. But the nice thing about the college football is it has stripes. It does make it easier to tell which QB's can spin the ball better. Maye spins it better than Howell imo. And actually McCarthy surprised me when I watch his tape of how well he spins the ball. It matters. Especially when you are going to be playing outdoors in the wind. 

[Dark Acre]

Our OL is so bad that we could draft an entire starting line with our 2nd through 6th picks (that'd be 2x2, 2x3, 4).  Draft our QB guy at 2.  Keep Sam and start him while the rookie OL gells (which will be better than what Sam had here last year), and then transition over to the new guy as circumstances dictate.  (If Howell somehow manages to do well, stay with him and let the rook learn the old-fashioned way and if he falters, new guy.)  Hogs 3.0  Do it.

[ThatNFLChick]

3 hours ago, clskinsfan said:

Exactly. Guy was open and probably scores. I am not gonna hate on Daniels too much. But when those are your "highlights" on in cutting medium range throws that might be an issue. If Caleb and Drake werent in this draft Daniels would go 1 overall. But they are.

 

It wasn't a highlight it was someone simply showing that he wasn't one read and run. He very clearly sat in the pocket and scanned the field. 

 

Now what I do agree with that was mentioned in the thread is that at he drops his eyes too much when he runs - and that's because he's confident that whenever he runs he can take it to the house. But maybe too overly confident at times.

 

Regarding that mock draft - if he ended up on the Falcons with that roster of weapons and meh conference, the Falcons are 100% a playoff team and he probably wins OROY (they were nearly a playoff team this year with atrocious QB play from Ridder and Heinecke)

Edited January 16 by ThatNFLChick

[Skinsinparadise]

2 hours ago, clskinsfan said:

I agree. But the nice thing about the college football is it has stripes. It does make it easier to tell which QB's can spin the ball better. Maye spins it better than Howell imo. And actually McCarthy surprised me when I watch his tape of how well he spins the ball. It matters. Especially when you are going to be playing outdoors in the wind. 

 

Was just listening to a PFF guy on Sheehan's show.  It was amusing to me because Sheehan has a massive man crush on Daniels.  But in short, he thinks this team needs to take whomever falls to them Caleb or Drake.  Sheehan prodded him about Daniels so he goes he really likes him but has concerns that he didn't see many throws from him in between the numbers whereas Maye can make any throw.

Edited January 16 by Skinsinparadise

[ThatNFLChick]

17 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Was just listening to a PFF guy on Sheehan's show.  It was amusing to me because Sheehan has a massive man crush on Daniels.  But in short, he thinks this team needs to take whomever falls to them Caleb or Drake.  Sheehan prodded him about Daniels so he goes he really likes him but has concerns that he didn't see many throws from him in between the numbers whereas Maye can make any throw.

 

Sheehan is a Daniels fan? So I am agreeing with Sheehan, Jay Gruden and Field Yates? LOL (Field isn't that bad but Gruden and Sheehan 😂😩)

[Skinsinparadise]

24 minutes ago, ThatNFLChick said:

 

Sheehan is a Daniels fan? So I am agreeing with Sheehan, Jay Gruden and Field Yates? LOL (Field isn't that bad but Gruden and Sheehan 😂😩)

 

As for Jay did you hear somewhere he prefers Daniels?  Just a few days ago on Sheehan's podcast, he talked about either Maye or Daniels at 2 or is that what you are referencing.

Edited January 16 by Skinsinparadise

[ThatNFLChick]

3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

As for Jay did you hear somewhere he prefers Daniels?  Just a few days ago on Sheehan's podcast, he talked about either Maye or Daniels at 2 or is that what you are referencing.

 

It was one of his appearances on Sheehan's podcast. Grant Paulsen also mentioned Jay loves Daniels

[clskinsfan]

Gonna preface this by saying I do not want Justin Fields. But I was playing around on a mock draft site today. One of the trades that came up for pick #2 was:

 

Chicago gets:

Pick 2     2024  (They took Harrison). They had picked Caleb Williams at 1 overall. 

 

Washington gets:

Justin Fields

Pick 9 2024  (I took Fashanu)

1st round pick 2025

2nd round pick 2025

 

Just thought it was interesting. 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 16 by clskinsfan

[Rufus T Firefly]

10 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

Gonna preface this by saying I do not want Justin Fields. But I was playing around on a mock draft site today. One of the trades that came up for pick #2 was:

 

Chicago gets:

Pick 2     2024  (They took Harrison). They had picked Caleb Williams at 1 overall. 

 

Washington gets:

Justin Fields

Pick 9 2024  (I took Fautanu)

1st round pick 2025

2nd round pick 2025

 

Just thought it was interesting. 

 

 

 

 

No thanks. 

 

There was actually one on Twitter which suggested we trade 2, plus our two 2s for Fields and 9. Dude couldn't under stand why everyone didn't think it was a great deal for Washington. 

Edited January 16 by Rufus T Firefly

[Skinsinparadise]

23 minutes ago, ThatNFLChick said:

 

It was one of his appearances on Sheehan's podcast. Grant Paulsen also mentioned Jay loves Daniels

 

Yeah the Maye or Daniels and comparing him to Lamar was on that last Sheehan podcast I listened to and said "I need to watch more tape of Jayden Daniels".  It will be a tough pick for them -- referring to Maye and Daniels.

 

He also went on for a bit about how our fans are foolish for not to want Belichick.  Entertaining radio appearance.

Edited January 16 by Skinsinparadise

[The Consigliere]

14 hours ago, HTTRDynasty said:

So, pretty sure all the remaining QBs in the playoffs were first round picks (excluding Purdy). 
 

For all those who don’t want to use a first on QB…

As I've mentioned before, you can scroll through the Conference Championships going back decades, and other than Tom Brady, you're going to find that around 80% of the QB's facing off in the Final Four are 1st rounders, and a huge majority of them are also high end firsts. It's year after year after year. There are exceptions, Brady, and Russell Wilson being the most prominent amongst the frequent final four QB exceptions.

 

But yeah, you go back decades, and it's usually 3/4 or 4/4 QB's are 1st round guys. In the eighties the prominent exception was Joe Montana, over the past 30 years its been Brett Favre, Tom Brady and Russell Wilson (I may be forgetting someone). Going forward, Purdy could easily be this next decade's exception. Scroll through the top end teams right now, and the only high end QBs that weren't a top tier draft pick are Purdy, and Hurts if he gets back (Dak if he ever actually does it). The rest are all mega studs. 

[philibusters]

4 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

Gonna preface this by saying I do not want Justin Fields. But I was playing around on a mock draft site today. One of the trades that came up for pick #2 was:

 

Chicago gets:

Pick 2     2024  (They took Harrison). They had picked Caleb Williams at 1 overall. 

 

Washington gets:

Justin Fields

Pick 9 2024  (I took Fautanu)

1st round pick 2025

2nd round pick 2025

 

Just thought it was interesting. 

 

 

 

 

 

I wouldn't make that trade, but if you are very risk averse and don't want to risk putting all your eggs in one basket (most likely Maye, but possibly Daniels too), then I could see you liking that trade.   Fields is probably better than Howell, Wentz, and Heinicke.  And you would pick up an extra first and second rounder next year.  Making that trade would probably be a fairly safe way of getting to 9-8 or 10-7 within a year or two where you have a pretty good roster and a serviceable QB (which Fields is--he is not a passer, but if you properly design an offense around him) he is probably a top 20 QB.  But its not a formula for ever being really better than that.  You need a QB to be consistently better than that.

[The Consigliere]

18 minutes ago, Rufus T Firefly said:

No thanks. 

 

There was actually one on Twitter which suggested we trade 2, plus our two 2s for Fields and 9. Dude couldn't under stand why everyone didn't think it was a great deal for Washington. 

Nobody seems to understand that the most valuable asset in the league is a QB on a rookie deal, and that Fields is on the last year of his rookie deal in '24. The value he had, is now largely spent, and he sinks or swims on his next contract cost and how much value he returns on it, after QBR finishes of 31st (only Drew Lock was worse of guys who got a decent amount of starts), 15th, and 23rd, your guess is as good as mine as to whether the guy on a 15th-24th AAV for a QB is worthwhile? Or even more horrifying? Now they want a pile of assets for that? A first round pick? Kiper's suggestion of the 8th overall? With only one season left at a reasonable cost? In no world does that make any sense. Sure there are stupid GM's, but that stupid? That's hard to find. 

[The Consigliere]

31 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Yeah the Maye or Daniels and comparing him to Lamar was on that last Sheehan podcast I listened to and said "I need to watch more tape of Jayden Daniels".  It will be a tough pick for them -- referring to Maye and Daniels.

 

He also went on for a bit about how our fans are foolish for not to want Belichick.  Entertaining radio appearance.

I wonder, I just assume, looking at them both, that Lamar just seems thicker, sturdier, more able to take hits in the open field, but that could just be bias telling, from lazy looking at a teeny bit of video. I just can't shake some statistical issues and concerns, and the size/takes too many hits thing. 

[ThatNFLChick]

15 minutes ago, The Consigliere said:

I wonder, I just assume, looking at them both, that Lamar just seems thicker, sturdier, more able to take hits in the open field, but that could just be bias telling, from lazy looking at a teeny bit of video. I just can't shake some statistical issues and concerns, and the size/takes too many hits thing. 

 

He's not as sturdy as Lamar. Herm Edwards compared him more to Randall Cunningham which seems apt. I think Lamar is just mentioned a lot because Lamar is currently the most prolific duel threat QB in the NFL. 

 

Daniels doesn't run like Lamar though. I think Lamar is faster and more straight line but Daniels might be shiftier? Like he sees the field when he is running really well. The way he weaves in and out and takes the right angle is different

 

He is fast though, like really fast:

 

 

 

 

[HTTRDynasty]

 

[The Consigliere]

It's funny how this sort of thing can change your perception of things. I never fully understood how the dynamic, ridiculous, mega star Cunningham, kind of flamed out so quick, but mentioning the comp got me to look into his career on pro football reference, and it's kind of right there. 

 

Part of it is:

1.) I was a kid, just 10 when he debuted, so my impression of him was shaped between 5th and 10th grade (1985-1990), reasoning skills are necessairly the greatest.

2.) Guy suffered catastrophic injury in '91 which wiped out that whole season. Boy did Philly get hurt that year, I'd always thought of '91 as the year after Jerome Brown died, killing the heart and soul of the team, but I had forgotten that Cunningham was knocked out for the season in week 1, so not surprising that the season was utterly lost after that.  But with McMahon in place, they were able to turn it around and stay competitive. 

 

But still, looking back, god that guy was talented, and its hard not to think he would have been better than Vick, and Lamar if he played in a modern league that protected QB's, unlike the one he played in, where he got physically annihilated on the regular. But maybe my view of him is colored by watching his magical play primarily when I was age 12 to 15. Not sure. Looking back, the playoff failures, especially early, are pretty crazy.

 

Why on earth was he asked to throw nearly 55 times in the freaking Fog Bowl, back in the 1988-1989 playoffs?

Why did his team lose 3 of their first 4 playoff games with him under center? To the Redskins, at home, after winning the body bag game months earlier in '90? We killed them in that game. Very odd. The Fog Bowl was a random weather freak of nature game, the Rams in '89 were probably the second best team in the NFL, so no sin losing that, so maybe I'm just being harsh, the only huge poor performance was at home against our redskins in January of 1991. But then you can see that he goes 3-4 the rest of his career after that 1-3 start. Definitely better, and he did everything in his power to make the Super Bowl in 1998 only for his kicker to fail him. Not fair, and poor Gary Anderson, guy who kicked for more than 20 years, career 80% guy which is pretty wild considering he played into his forties, and dude was 100%, 35 for 35 in the 1998 season only to miss a relative chip shot 38 yarder in a dome with the Super Bowl on the line. Also worth noting the Vikes had a 20-7 lead with only 3 mins left until halftime in that game. Just a disastrous choke from the Vikes defense, and Gary Anderson. Fair to say Cunningham was only solid in the game, he wasn't bad, but nobody's gonna mistake 29-49-266-2-0 for a heroic performance. It's a fine one, above average. 

 

But man? Why on earth did they choke that game away? There are so many moments like that that robbed us of probable great Super Bowls. That Vikes-Broncos super bowl probably would've been quite good, instead we got a bore fest, 20 years later, the Rams (fans still currently whining nonstop on twitter about the refs) were gifted a free super bowl ticket after the worst non-call in history against the Saints, robbed us of a much, much more entertaining super bowl option (Brees vs Brady in Brees Curtain Call performance?). 

 

Could go on and on and am, but man does it bum me out thinking about could have beens with Cunningham. He was a true joy to watch. If Jayden is Cunningham Part II, man would that be hard to say no too, but I'm skeptical, Cunningham was a pretty stout athlete all things considered, I view him as thicker, and more physical by far than guys like RGIII, Lamar, and Vick, to me Cunningham is more reminiscent of a Steve Young, but with broader shoulders. 

[HTTRDynasty]

49 minutes ago, ThatNFLChick said:

Daniels doesn't run like Lamar though. I think Lamar is faster and more straight line but Daniels might be shiftier? Like he sees the field when he is running really well. The way he weaves in and out and takes the right angle is different 

 

I mean, I kind of get what you’re trying to say but… Lamar is probably the most shifty QB in league history after Mike Vick.  Daniels isn’t anywhere near the natural runner Lamar is - his instincts are unreal. 
 

 

Edited January 16 by HTTRDynasty

[ThatNFLChick]

15 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

I mean, I kind of get what you’re trying to say but… Lamar is probably the most shifty QB in league history after Mike Vick.  Daniels isn’t anywhere near the natural runner Lamar is - his instincts are unreal. 
 

 

 

I don't know he's pretty shifty but obviously Vick and Jackson have done it at the next level. I said he wasn't faster than Lamar but maybe he is? Lamar never ran a 40, but I don't believe Lamar has ever reached above 21 mph top speed in a game so Daniels would be faster. 

[HTTRDynasty]

6 minutes ago, ThatNFLChick said:

 

I don't know he's pretty shifty but obviously Vick and Jackson have done it at the next level. I said he wasn't faster than Lamar but maybe he is? Lamar never ran a 40, but I don't believe Lamar has ever reached above 21 mph top speed in a game so Daniels would be faster. 

Well, sadly Lamar refused to run a 40 at the Combine or Pro Day after he had idiotic scouts asking him about the possibility of converting to WR. 
 

He did run at Louisville’s “Speed Day” back in 2017, where he posted a time of 4.34 while battling turf toe lol.  Vick ran a 4.33 at his Pro Day. 
 

If I had to guess, Daniels is more of a 4.4 guy, similar to RG3. 
 

Also, 

“Check out Baltimore Ravens quarterback Lamar Jackson's fastest career rushing touchdowns, the top speed reaching over 21 MPH.”

 

https://www.nfl.com/videos/lamar-jackson-s-top-5-fastest-career-rushing-touchdowns

[kingdaddy]

Lots of talk today about leadership, makes me wonder if that's gonna be a huge trait they look for in a QB with the new regime? For example, if all things are close, do they go with the best leader out of the big 3 or even the next tier of Nix, Penix, McCarthy? The next QB is gonna have to show that he can be a great leader for sure right?

[Commander Adama]

1 hour ago, ThatNFLChick said:

 

He's not as sturdy as Lamar. Herm Edwards compared him more to Randall Cunningham which seems apt. I think Lamar is just mentioned a lot because Lamar is currently the most prolific duel threat QB in the NFL. 

 

Daniels doesn't run like Lamar though. I think Lamar is faster and more straight line but Daniels might be shiftier? Like he sees the field when he is running really well. The way he weaves in and out and takes the right angle is different

 

He is fast though, like really fast:

 

 

 

 

Randall Cunningham was still great

[Est.1974]

I recall Cunningham bringing the Eagles back from 20 down to beat us 42-37, 1989. Could hardly hear the reception on armed forces radio and believe the final score. Had to then wait days to depressingly watch the highlights as ‘game of the week’.

Edited January 16 by Est.1974

[clskinsfan]

1 minute ago, Est.1974 said:

I recall Cunningham bringing the Eagles back from 20 down to beat us 42-37, 1989. Could hardly hear the reception on armed forces radio and believe the final score. Had to then wait days to depressingly watch the highlights as ‘game of the week’.

The size and speed of defensive players has increased immensely since Cunningham played. Anf Cunningham still tore his ACL in 91 and broke his leg in 93. That is exactly what worries me about Daniels.