Election 2024 & Presidential Cage Match: Dark Brandon 46 vs Felonious Farty 45

[The Evil Genius]

Tl:dr is 

 

[88Comrade2000]

So Trump feels he’s like Lincoln and Navalny in being persecuted by his enemies.

 Both men were killed by their enemies.

 

Unless he joins them , he’s nothing like them.

[EmirOfShmo]

 

 

[PleaseBlitz]

Water is cancelled!

[The Evil Genius]

28 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said:

Water is cancelled!

 

[Skins24]

54 minutes ago, Jumbo said:

 I would say that your thoughts here are pretty mainstream when framed as ideals and goals to shoot for and they've been a common theme since I voted in 72. 🙂

 

And things sometime bring those ideals to life. Before my first vote, JFK fit your premise. Bill Clinton too. Al Gore was a pretty decent realization of the dynamics you mentioned though he had the establishment component having served as VP for Bill. Certainly Obama was a huge representation of the process and the voters turning to the kind of candidate you describe. 

 

So the suggestion I get from your posts that this finding a younger forward thinking dem nominee is some constantly neglected event over recent decades isn't accurate.

I get your post and do not necessarily disagree with any of it.

But what you describe is more so "fresh" faces coming in with the other party in control. JFK came in after Eisenhower. Clinton and Obama came in after Bushes (that's what she said?)

 

And this is certainly not limited to the Dems. Repubs were stuck with Trump in 2020 for what I'm describing (though that was the most within party competition, that I've ever seen.)

 

Say it's a close race between Candidate A and Candidate B for the party nom. Candidate A wins. We won't hear from Candidate B again for 8 years. Why not 4 years?

Let the people decide they want to stick with Candidate A, don't decide that for us.

 

 

Quote

I look at the best of fresher faces in the Dems and see a lot I like, but no one I think would be able to better in legislation than what Biden has actually done so far in fact. Not even close.

How would anyone even know that when, purposely, no one is given a chance?

 

It's a systemic issue that won't be solved any time soon because we have just accepted it.

 

[@DCGoldPants]

 

 

[PleaseBlitz]

11 minutes ago, Skins24 said:

How would anyone even know that when, purposely, no one is given a chance?

 

It's a systemic issue that won't be solved any time soon because we have just accepted it.

 

I don't think anybody knows for certain, but Biden has been better at it than any of his predecessors since, arguably, LBJ.  People often attribute that to Biden's nearly 40 years as a US Senator and then as VP he was a key congressional negotiator for the WH.  To expect someone else to come in and do better seems awfully speculative, particularly without naming a person that could do it. 

[tshile]

34 minutes ago, Skins24 said:

Why not 4 years?

Let the people decide they want to stick with Candidate A, don't decide that for us.

This will never happen. 
 

it’s not in the party’s interest to have a legit primary when they’re the incumbent party. The money and time spent, plus the backlash an intense primary can create (like fracturing the bloc), means they won’t ever like that idea. You have to have someone that’s willing to commit career suicide if they can’t take on the incumbent, which obviously doesn’t happen (if you had a chance to possibly win, why would you risk your career? Instead we get randoms with zero chance)

 

I don’t think it’s a good way to do things but it seems obvious that’s the way it will continue to be. 

[skinsmarydu]

12 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said:

 

I don't think anybody knows for certain, but Biden has been better at it than any of his predecessors since, arguably, LBJ.  People often attribute that to Biden's nearly 40 years as a US Senator and then as VP he was a key congressional negotiator for the WH.  To expect someone else to come in and do better seems awfully speculative, particularly without naming a person that could do it. 

I think I just got an "Amen"...that's what I was meaning to say.  The man has uber amounts of experience with our Nation and others.  He knows things we never will and has genuine empathy for what everyday folks are going through. 

Hey, I wasn't happy with everything Barack did...but I would've kept him in office for another 4 if the Constitution permitted.

I'll happily do the same for Joe.  I can't name anyone else on my side of the aisle that inspires me right now.  (Although Gavin gets me looking, and not just because he's hot...he's progressive and has experience because cities & states have to run on balanced budgets.)  He'll more than likely get my election work next cycle if he decides to run.   

[PleaseBlitz]

I really like Gavin Newsome and Gretchen Whitmer.  But they'd be literal rookies in DC, and Biden is an OG, and it shows. 

[skinsmarydu]

16 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said:

Biden is an OG, and it shows. 

That's kinda the other side of my point. 

We won't know anyone this knowledgeable again for a long time, so I need him to do his best this next 4. 

[Captain Wiggles]

20 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said:

I really like Gavin Newsome and Gretchen Whitmer.  But they'd be literal rookies in DC, and Biden is an OG, and it shows. 

 

Yup. Biden is a rarity these in DC. He's one of the few people there what knows how a bill becomes a law. That's some scary **** for them do nothing conservatives to have to contend with. 🤭

[Skins24]

47 minutes ago, tshile said:

This will never happen. 
 

it’s not in the party’s interest to have a legit primary when they’re the incumbent party. The money and time spent, plus the backlash an intense primary can create (like fracturing the bloc), means they won’t ever like that idea. You have to have someone that’s willing to commit career suicide if they can’t take on the incumbent, which obviously doesn’t happen (if you had a chance to possibly win, why would you risk your career? Instead we get randoms with zero chance)

 

I don’t think it’s a good way to do things but it seems obvious that’s the way it will continue to be. 

 

Right.

Not in the party's interest. Which sucks.

Look at 2020. Career suicide or a huge risk challenging Trump?? HOW? That should never be. But it was. We could have ended up with 8 years of Trump over cowardice and "that's just the way things are."

 

Current. You may be dismissive of or not worried about Biden's age. But there is absolutely no doubt each and every misspeak or mistake will be harped from the other side, and no doubt that will play well with their base. And honestly, how is it not a legit concern? This is the most stressful job in the universe (as far as we know) and he is not getting younger. The next few years are trending to be far more stressful (at least on the international stage) than the previous four. He's had during his career, a couple of brain aneurysms, cancer, COVID who knows how many times. There has been no one being groomed or under his wing, building report, building those relationships or anything like that, so this dude can slide into his well earned retirement? Because...._______?

[PleaseBlitz]

5 minutes ago, Skins24 said:

Current. You may be dismissive of or not worried about Biden's age. But there is absolutely no doubt each and every misspeak or mistake will be harped from the other side, and no doubt that will play well with their base. And honestly, how is it not a legit concern? This is the most stressful job in the universe (as far as we know) and he is not getting younger. The next few years are trending to be far more stressful (at least on the international stage) than the previous four. He's had during his career, a couple of brain aneurysms, cancer, COVID who knows how many times. There has been no one being groomed or under his wing, building report, building those relationships or anything like that, so this dude can slide into his well earned retirement? Because...._______?

 

You don't seem inclined to actually listen to what people in this thread are saying.  

[tshile]

5 minutes ago, Skins24 said:

Look at 2020. Career suicide or a huge risk challenging Trump?? HOW?

Because when 40% of your base (pick whatever significant number you want) has a cult like following, you’re going to lose them even if a challenger succeeds. 
 

there’s a solid argument to be made (and many do make it, I’m not sure where I fall personally) that the Bernie sanders voters that refused to support Clinton after the primary, are the #1 reason she lost

 

not saying I subscribe to it, but many others do, and even if I don’t subscribe to it I recognize they have a valid argument that’s worth considering. 
 

and that was even less of a cult than the trumpers 

[tshile]

8 minutes ago, Skins24 said:

And honestly, how is it not a legit concern?

My only concern about bidens age, is that it will be a concern for the general public. 
 

I do not have a concern that he’s mentally unfit. Especially given the alternative. 
 

but

 

that was a conversation to have a year ago (and some of us tried to, but were just random forum posters so we have no pull in dem party conversations … but we’re mocked by the regulars here, and yet we now see it seems to indeed be an issue for the general public, I digress) 

 

we’re far past the time that issue should have been considered, and if deemed worthy alternate options discussed. 
 

so, it doesn’t matter now. Unless Biden suffers a serious health setback, there is nothing to change now. 
 

but if you want an incumbent party to have a primary, you’re gonna need the incumbent to state they’re not running for reelection. 
 

otherwise it’s not going to happen. I guess it could happen if the incumbent had a disastrous 4 years (by their party’s standards, not the other party’s standards.) but it would have to be super disastrous, with the incumbent clearly to blame, and I’m not even sure you’d see it then. 

[Skins24]

3 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said:

 

You don't seem inclined to actually listen to what people in this thread are saying.  

Such as?

 

I've seen all the post saying Biden is the best the Dems have.

No one else inspires them like him. No one else has done the things he has done. And so on...

 

And I see that as being an issue. I'm well aware they are well past anyone doing anything now. That has not been my suggestion. For the past four years, and even beyond, folks should have been groomed and mentored so that there are other inspiring leaders. Leaders who could actually step in or up nearly seamlessly.

[skinsmarydu]

Just now, Skins24 said:

Such as?

 

I've seen all the post saying Biden is the best the Dems have.

No one else inspires them like him. No one else has done the things he has done. And so on...

 

And I see that as being an issue. I'm well aware they are well past anyone doing anything now. That has not been my suggestion. For the past four years, and even beyond, folks should have been groomed and mentored so that there are other inspiring leaders. Leaders who could actually step in or up nearly seamlessly.

I see you didn't read or understand mine.

Gavin will have a strong stance next term.  Right now, we have the best there is.

[SloppyOneXXVI]

Whatever happened to Amy Klobuchar? I loved her during the 2020 primary. She's been a senator for 15+ years and appeals to both sides.  

[PleaseBlitz]

7 minutes ago, Skins24 said:

Such as?

 

I've seen all the post saying Biden is the best the Dems have.

No one else inspires them like him. No one else has done the things he has done. And so on...

 

And I see that as being an issue. I'm well aware they are well past anyone doing anything now. That has not been my suggestion. For the past four years, and even beyond, folks should have been groomed and mentored so that there are other inspiring leaders. Leaders who could actually step in or up nearly seamlessly.

 

You seem to be suggesting that everyone is, quote, "dismissive of or not worried about Biden's age."  I'm not sure anyone has said that.  People are, and should be, worried about Biden's age, it's his primary political liability.  But that has to be considered in the context of all the good stuff Biden has done, that probably no other potential candidate could have done, as has been repeatedly described above (and which you seem to just ignore), and the fact that a lot of people just like Joe Biden (which you don't seem to accept). It can be true at the same time that (1) people are, in fact, concerned that Biden's age is a problem and (2) still think that he is the best candidate.  Here, I'll invite you to offer up an actual alternative name or two instead of just referring to some hypothetical magical candidate that doesn't actually exist anywhere. 

 

Biden's age also has to be considered in the context of his opponent, who is also old, and is also a rapist, who was never qualified to be POTUS in the first place and still isn't, is currently on trial for 90+ felonies, is stupid, is mean, is maybe the most prolific liar in human history, and who tried to thwart the America democratic process the last time he lost an election. 

[Skins24]

49 minutes ago, skinsmarydu said:

I see you didn't read or understand mine.

Gavin will have a strong stance next term.  Right now, we have the best there is.

I see it. And I know there is nothing that could be done now.

And if he is the best, then so be it. But let us decide that.

 

Quote

We won't know anyone this knowledgeable again for a long time, so I need him to do his best this next 4. 

Knowledge is gained by teaching. Why has this knowledge not been passed down or around?

In a perfect system....not even perfect, in a better system, one person wouldn't hold all the cards. There's no benefit to that.

 

 

 

 

1 hour ago, tshile said:

Because when 40% of your base (pick whatever significant number you want) has a cult like following, you’re going to lose them even if a challenger succeeds.

And alas, we sacrifice the good of the people for the benefit of the party. That's what this system does.

 

 

 

35 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said:

But that has to be considered in the context of all the good stuff Biden has done, that probably no other potential candidate could have done, as has been repeatedly described above (and which you seem to just ignore).

Ignore?

I've added to the good things he at least tried to do.

But THIS is my issue. "Probably no other potential candidate could have done." We will never know because it was already decided no one should even try to build upon, or improve on the things he's done. Given his age, THAT is not cool. Years. Decades even, of knowledge and know-how could have been passed on to other inspiring or potentially inspiring leaders. So one could say, 'You know what, you rest, I've got it from here.'

 

 

 

Again, this is not a Dem issue. Both sides do this. Unnecessarily.

 

 

Edited February 21 by Skins24

[TradeTheBeal!]

If you’re having Deja Vu, don’t trip…yes, almost exactly 4 years ago to the day many folks of questionable intent were harping Biden’s age/fitness incessantly.  
 

After quickly sucking all the air out of that room, they folded over into Sniffy Joe and Tara Reade horse**** and clowned themselves into oblivion forever.

 

Lets see how this cycle plays out…

[China]

Trump makes series of worrying blunders at weekend rally

 

Donald Trump made a series of blunders at a rally in Michigan over the weekend, as questions continue to swirl about his mental capacity.

 

At one point the presidential hopeful reminded voters of the “very important date” of the Michigan state primary – and proceeded to get it wrong.

 

It comes ahead of the South Carolina primary on 24 February, which is followed by the Michigan primary on 27 February. Mr Trump and former South Carolina governor Nikki Haley are the only two significant Republican candidates who remain in the race.

 

Addressing voters on Saturday, Mr Trump said: “We need you to get out and vote to set the stage for November.

 

“Go vote – November 27th. Remember this, that’s a date that is very important.”

 

Later he admitted that during “my whole life” he had not known what the word “indictment” meant, though he now faces a plethora. Mr Trump also appeared to fumble his stance on electric vehicles.

 

Ms Haley, UN ambassador under Mr Trump, has questioned how the 77-year-old former president’s mental state will affect his ability to carry out his role should he return to the White House.

 

Click on the link for the full article

[The Evil Genius]

I have 💯 complete confidence that Biden's cabinet, friends, and confidants would step in should he ever become unfit. I have zero confidence in the other party doing that to Trump. I'm not even sure Trump is fit to serve right now..but that's another subject. 

Edited February 21 by The Evil Genius