2023 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[Skinsinparadise]

7 minutes ago, Chump Bailey said:

 

I love Kincaid. I'd honestly struggle with him or Mayer as #1. No other TE moves like Kincaid IMO -smooth operator.

 

He reminds me of Noah Fant, college Noah Fant.    F TE.  Slot-outside.   Willing blocker but IMO not a good blocker.  I'd say the best pass catcher in this group, i suspect Musgrave is faster.

 

For me precombine

 

1.  Mayer

2, D. Washington

3.  Musgrave-Kincaid I go back and forth as to who I like better.

4.  Laporta

 

couldn't find enough to rate Kraft but i haven't seen if new games have been updated on you tube.

 

I talked plenty about the crop of TEs after the top ones but really want to see the combine to seperate them.

[Chump Bailey]

This is a good year to go TE shopping too.

[Skinsinparadise]

16 minutes ago, Chump Bailey said:

This is a good year to go TE shopping too.

 

Yeah definitely.  Seems like the draft media thinks Mayer and Kincaid go in the first.  Maybe Musgrave, Washington.  Some think in the 2nd Laporta and Kraft. 

 

6 TEs in the first 2 rounds?  Seems hard to believe.   But I'd say the first tier TE group are unsually deep.

 

Mayer is my favorite safe type of TE prospect, high floor, rare good Y TE who can do it all except stretch the field vertically.  I've probably touted him more than any other for our pick in the first.   Washington is my favorite upside TE prospect. 

 

Musgrave's freak athleticism intrigues me too but not as much as the other 2.  As for Kincaid, I think he will be a good player but he hits me more as oversized WR than a TE which i can dig if the dude were a freak athlete like Kyle Pitts.  Kincaid to me is somewhere between Noah Fant and Engram.  Those are good players but if we are hung up on running the ball, I'd prefer a Y TE.

 

Laporta in that next tier of TEs i think by far in my favorite 2nd tier TE -- he's more a pass catcher than a blocker but not a bad blocker.  He just seems to get open on play after play in the seam and underneath, shallow crossers in the flat, etc.  YAC.  Sort of a poor man's Jordan Reed as a pass catcher but a better blocker than him. 

Edited February 14, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[KDawg]

3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Yeah definitely.  Seems like the draft media thinks Mayer and Kincaid go in the first.  Maybe Musgrave, Washington.  Some think in the 2nd Laporta and Kraft. 

 

6 TEs in the first 2 rounds?  Seems hard to believe.   But I'd say the first tier TE group are unsually deep.

 

Mayer is my favorite safe type of TE prospect, high floor, rare good Y TE who can do it all except stretch the field vertically.  I've probably touted him more than any other for our pick in the first.   Washington is my favorite upside TE prospect. 

 

Musgrave's freak athleticism intrigues me too but not as much as the other 2.  As for Kincaid, I think he will be a good player but he hits me more as oversized WR than a TE which i can dig if the dude were a freak athlete like Kyle Pitts.  Kincaid to me is somewhere between Noah Fant and Engram.  Those are good players but if we are hung up on running the ball, I'd prefer a Y TE.

 

Laporta in that next tier of TEs i think by far in my favorite 2nd tier TE -- he's more a pass catcher than a blocker but not a bad blocker.  He just seems to get open on play after play on seams and underneath, in the flat, etc,  Sort of a poor man's Jordan Reed as a pass catcher but a better blocker than him. 

If I had to pick someone who reminded me of Cooley in this class it would be LaPorta.

 

Kincaid is too H for me and not enough Y… but for a team who needs that I think he’d be a great get.

 

Musgrave athletically is a dog. And he’s a big guy, too. Nothing to dislike there. Except for the fact that in 4 seasons he played in just 20 games (2, 6, 10, 2).  Only scored 2 TD in four years and just 47 receptions. Your best ability is avail… and Musgrave isn’t.

[Skinsinparadise]

11 minutes ago, KDawg said:

If I had to pick someone who reminded me of Cooley in this class it would be LaPorta.

 

Kincaid is too H for me and not enough Y… but for a team who needs that I think he’d be a great get.

 

Musgrave athletically is a dog. And he’s a big guy, too. Nothing to dislike there. Except for the fact that in 4 seasons he played in just 20 games (2, 6, 10, 2).  Only scored 2 TD in four years and just 47 receptions. Your best ability is avail… and Musgrave isn’t.

 

Yeah the Cooley analogy which was discussed if I recall between me and @Going Commando as well, I agree with.  I suspect Laporta is a tad faster than Cooley but he actually moves a bit like him.  Cooley wasn't a great blocker but was good enough which is how I feel about Laporta.   If I had to think of someone else, another who grabs me in that style of play, Tyler Eifert.

 

yeah Musgrave injuries is a concern.   Feel the same you do about Kincaid.

 

 

Edited February 14, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[DWinzit]

16 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

This is good news for Washington with so many other needs. Realistically they could wait until late day 3 for a decent RB3 who can evolve into RB2. 

 

[Chump Bailey]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

Sure is. I still have a hard time evaluating this class of RB's. For my money, these RB's offer the most bang for the buck in that range.

• Your guy Keaton Mitchell, East Carolina (nice find BTW)
• Kendre Miller, TCU (should have put in my top ten, whiff)
• Kenny McIntosh, Georgia
• Sean Tucker, Syracuse
• DeWayne McBride, UAB
• Chris Rodriguez, Kentucky
• Tavion Thomas, Utah (day 3)
• Tiyon Evans, Louisville (day 3)

 

SaRoderick is interesting, but can't get a good feel on him.

 

* SaRoderick Thompson, Texas Tech (day 3)

 

Edited February 14, 2023 by Chump Bailey

[Warhead36]

The more I look at it the more I dislike this draft class. 

 

If we could somehow trade out of the 1st completely and get a 2024 1st I'd be all for it. Set up the next regime.

[Skinsinparadise]

Catching up with Kiper-McShay's podcast.

 

In short they don't like the depth of this draft class.  They thought the O line group at the Senior Bowl was the best group they've ever seen - high on D. Wright, Michael-Schmitz-Torrence.

 

They like the depth at QB (2nd round and later) better last year than this year. 

Edited February 14, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Zim489]

20 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

They like the depth at QB (2nd round and later) better last year than this year. 

Hard to be worse. Its going to be hard to see a QB class as bad as that one ever again. 

38 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

The more I look at it the more I dislike this draft class. 

 

If we could somehow trade out of the 1st completely and get a 2024 1st I'd be all for it. Set up the next regime.

And im with you. I have zero draft crushes right now. No one really is sticking out for me. Couple that with the current Legion of Boomers picking it I am totally ok with trading back as much as possible to collect capital for next year 

[KDawg]

23 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Catching up with Kiper-McShay's podcast.

 

In short they don't like the depth of this draft class.  They thought the O line group at the Senior Bowl was the best group they've ever seen - high on D. Wright, Michael-Schmitz-Torrence.

 

They like the depth at QB (2nd round and later) better last year than this year. 

 

They liked the depth at QB more last year than this year because they had every quarterback rated as a depth guy.

 

QB wise I see the following:

 

Young

Stroud

Hooker

Levis

Richardson

Haener

Tune

Duggan

 

How does that not compare to:

 

Pickett

Willis

Howell

Zappe

Corral

Ridder

Strong

Purdy (who was barely on anyone's draft board)

 

I wish I could ask these guys what they mean when they say things like that. This class is clearly better than last year's.

 

I think there is way too much negativity towards this class. It's not a great class, but there are some really solid pieces. Low on blue chip, high on mid floor mid ceiling types. It's a building block draft, not a superstar one. Though I'd argue the QBs are better this year as a whole. 

[RWJ]

@KDawg Who, IYO is the best player available in this draft?  Call me crazy but I think Arkansas MLB Drew Sanders is and it isn't even close.  

[KDawg]

2 minutes ago, RWJ said:

@KDawg Who, IYO is the best player available in this draft?  Call me crazy but I think Arkansas MLB Drew Sanders is and it isn't even close.  

Okay. I'll call you crazy

 

Myles Murphy. Or either one of Stroud/Young.

 

Drew Sanders is barely top 50 for me at the moment. 

[RWJ]

1 minute ago, KDawg said:

Okay. I'll call you crazy

 

Myles Murphy. Or either one of Stroud/Young.

 

Drew Sanders is barely top 50 for me at the moment. 

That's cool.  JMO, bro.  I watch many prospects but not to level of you, Champ or SIP and others but to me, he will be the best player to come out of the draft.  

[KDawg]

Just now, RWJ said:

That's cool.  JMO, bro.  I watch many prospects but not to level of you, Champ or SIP and others but to me, he will be the best player to come out of the draft.  

 

Hey, you told me to call you crazy.

 

I'll bite though: Why?

[RWJ]

25 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

Hey, you told me to call you crazy.

 

I'll bite though: Why?

All American player at the position.  He never got the chance to play behind the Alabama LBs and he was a 5 star recruit coming out of HS.  What he did in one year in 2022 after being hurt in 2021 at Arkansas and watching his film, I think, think I say he has franchise player written all over him.  This just from PFN.  I will post more as time goes on.  Keep his name and mind and watch him SHOOT up draft boards after the combine.  Drew Sanders, LB, Arkansas | NFL Draft Scouting Report (profootballnetwork.com)

 

If you were to go to a Build-A-Linebacker store and construct the ideal modern linebacker, it would come out looking a lot like Sanders. Of course, it’s not just the idea of Sanders that’s appealing. Turn on the tape, and you’ll see he has the film to back up his raw talent and measurables.  

Sanders displays high-end initial burst and long-track explosiveness when triggering on plays. He can cover ground quickly and close gaps from behind when pursuing laterally.  Additionally, he offers a bristling first step as a pass rusher and can stress tackles to the apex with ease. And when approaching contact, he brings a searing closing burst.

 

In space, Sanders shows off exceptional range. The Arkansas LB can track plays across the field and close ground with long-strider speed. And as a QB spy, he’s able to run down passers roaming to the sideline. 

That discipline is valuable for Sanders, but he doesn’t freeze, either. He flashes an incredibly quick trigger and impressive instincts on crucial downs, and can quickly recognize play directions based on blocking schemes. In run defense, he has good gap discipline — showing both patience and adaptability at the second level.

 

In the passing game, Sanders can identify route concepts and quickly diagnose plays before closing downhill. He’ll also quickly recognize screens and work to get ahead of plays. Against both screens and runs, he’s shown he can smartly engage blocks in space. At times, he’ll peek outside blockers and draw ball carriers inside, then swim around with his lateral quickness and wall them off.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 14, 2023 by RWJ

[KDawg]

3 minutes ago, RWJ said:

All American player at the position.  He never got the chance to play behind the Alabama LBs and he was a 5 star recruit coming out of HS.  What he did in one year in 2022 after being hurt in 2021 at Arkansas and watching his film, I think, think I say he has franchise player written all over him.  This just from PFN.  I will post more as time goes on.  Keep his name and mind and watch him SHOOT up draft boards after the combine.  Drew Sanders, LB, Arkansas | NFL Draft Scouting Report (profootballnetwork.com)

 

If you were to go to a Build-A-Linebacker store and construct the ideal modern linebacker, it would come out looking a lot like Sanders. Of course, it’s not just the idea of Sanders that’s appealing. Turn on the tape, and you’ll see he has the film to back up his raw talent and measurables.  

Sanders displays high-end initial burst and long-track explosiveness when triggering on plays. He can cover ground quickly and close gaps from behind when pursuing laterally.  Additionally, he offers a bristling first step as a pass rusher and can stress tackles to the apex with ease. And when approaching contact, he brings a searing closing burst.

 

In space, Sanders shows off exceptional range. The Arkansas LB can track plays across the field and close ground with long-strider speed. And as a QB spy, he’s able to run down passers roaming to the sideline. 

That discipline is valuable for Sanders, but he doesn’t freeze, either. He flashes an incredibly quick trigger and impressive instincts on crucial downs, and can quickly recognize play directions based on blocking schemes. In run defense, he has good gap discipline — showing both patience and adaptability at the second level.

 

In the passing game, Sanders can identify route concepts and quickly diagnose plays before closing downhill. He’ll also quickly recognize screens and work to get ahead of plays. Against both screens and runs, he’s shown he can smartly engage blocks in space. At times, he’ll peek outside blockers and draw ball carriers inside, then swim around with his lateral quickness and wall them off.

 

DREW SANDERS highlights 2022 - Google Search

 

 

 

 

 

I disagree with a lot of this take.

 

When I watch him on film here is what I see:

 

Pros:

-Excellent pass rusher who bends well and has + athleticism.

-Has good get off moves that allow him to defeat blockers

-Good edge contain and tracking

 

Cons:

-Due to 22 being his only season at ILB, he is raw as an off-ball backer. 
-Gets confused on reads at times and gets lost in traffic

-Ideal role is as an edge but a bit undersized. 
 

He reminds me of Jamin Davis a little. Who I like. But I don’t want another one of him.

 

Sanders is a pretty good 3-4 OLB candidate imo. He’s probably a top 5 pass rusher in this class. If not 5 then definitely 10. 
 

He has room to grow as an ILB, too.

[Skinsinparadise]

2 hours ago, KDawg said:

 

They liked the depth at QB more last year than this year because they had every quarterback rated as a depth guy.

 

 

You answered your own question.  That's what the meant 2nd round down.  They like the top level prospects this year better.

 

So for example Willis in the 3rd, Zappe in the 4th, Howell in the 5th will exceed the QBs in this draft taking in the same range in their opinion. 

[RWJ]

9 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I disagree with a lot of this take.

 

When I watch him on film here is what I see:

 

Pros:

-Excellent pass rusher who bends well and has + athleticism.

-Has good get off moves that allow him to defeat blockers

-Good edge contain and tracking

 

Cons:

-Due to 22 being his only season at ILB, he is raw as an off-ball backer. 
-Gets confused on reads at times and gets lost in traffic

-Ideal role is as an edge but a bit undersized. 
 

He reminds me of Jamin Davis a little. Who I like. But I don’t want another one of him.

 

Sanders is a pretty good 3-4 OLB candidate imo. He’s probably a top 5 pass rusher in this class. If not 5 then definitely 10. 
 

He has room to grow as an ILB, too.

Thanks for your feedback.  I think he takes off and "Wows".  

[Skinsinparadise]

51 minutes ago, RWJ said:

@KDawg Who, IYO is the best player available in this draft?  Call me crazy but I think Arkansas MLB Drew Sanders is and it isn't even close.  

 

Been a long time since I watched Sanders, i have to refresh him in my mind but wrote a longish post on him about a month ago.  My vibe was the late 1st-2nd round vibe in the mock drafts feel about right.

 

Reading @KDawg's post and yours.  I think i am somewhere between the two of you.  I recall saying when I initially was watching Sanders he started off so hot in the first game I watched that I was going to post he's the best pass rushing LB I've seen since Parsons but then I watched more and found him somewhat inconsistent.  But his flashes really grabbed me.

 

Edited February 14, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[RWJ]

Just now, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Been a long time since I watched Sanders, i have to refresh but wrote a longish post on him about a month ago.  My vibe was the late 1st-2nd round vibe in the mock drafts feel about right.

 

Reading @KDawg's post and yours.  I think i am somewhere between the two of you.  I recall saying when I initially was watching Sanders he started off so hot in the game that I was going to post he's the best pass rushing LB I've seen since Parsons but then I watched more and found him somewhat inconsistent.  But his flashes really grabbed me.

 

Appreciate the feedback also, SIP but again I think he will be better at the next level with Pro coaching and more playing time.  That's just me though.  

[Skinsinparadise]

2 minutes ago, RWJ said:

Appreciate the feedback also, SIP but again I think he will be better at the next level with Pro coaching and more playing time.  That's just me though.  

 

I'll eventually rewatch him.  the problem i have with the players I watch earlier in the process is that I forget a lot over time especially when I watch player after player over time.  So much info i can keep in my hard drive.   So with the players I watched early in the process I remember over time the feel I get more about the player than the details.  

 

But I'll say i do remember liking him and said so.  I do recall though i didn't think he was the guy I'd want at 16 but he among others is on the table for me if they trade down, i have others higher on that table for me though than him but I'll refresh my memory on him soon.

[KDawg]

13 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Been a long time since I watched Sanders, i have to refresh him in my mind but wrote a longish post on him about a month ago.  My vibe was the late 1st-2nd round vibe in the mock drafts feel about right.

 

Reading @KDawg's post and yours.  I think i am somewhere between the two of you.  I recall saying when I initially was watching Sanders he started off so hot in the first game I watched that I was going to post he's the best pass rushing LB I've seen since Parsons but then I watched more and found him somewhat inconsistent.  But his flashes really grabbed me.

 

I have him 48th overall right now so mid 2nd. So we seem to be aligned. 
 

Remember, I like film and production more than measurables, though I do take stock in the measurables, too. I never discount them.

 

Keeping that in mind Sanders produces as a pass rusher and not as much as a ILB. There is wiggle room due to size/speed and one year at the position. But his pass rushing is phenomenal. Issue is as an edge he is undersized. 
 

So I like him. But I don’t see him as an option at 16. Or even in the first.

 

He reminds me so much of Jamin Davis. If we didn’t have Davis I’d probably be more on board.

[Skinsinparadise]

4 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I have him 48th overall right now so mid 2nd. So we seem to be aligned. 
 

Remember, I like film and production more than measurables, though I do take stock in the measurables, too. I never discount them.

 

Keeping that in mind Sanders produces as a pass rusher and not as much as a ILB. There is wiggle room due to size/speed and one year at the position. But his pass rushing is phenomenal. Issue is as an edge he is undersized. 
 

So I like him. But I don’t see him as an option at 16. Or even in the first.

 

He reminds me so much of Jamin Davis. If we didn’t have Davis I’d probably be more on board.

 

Loved him as a pass rusher except in large chunks of the game he dissappeared on that front.  I recall that.  I don't recall thinking Jamin Davis when I watched him but its been a long time since I watched.    I did watch a lot of Jamin before that draft and I recall highlighting that Kentucky didn't rush him much but the rare times they did he was good on that front.