2023 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[Skinsinparadise]

Drew Sanders, I really dig his potential as a player.   Watched 3 games.   Davin Achane really shined in the AM game, that dude makes some lightining quick cuts, good balance and vision.  I prefer Gibbs to Achane but Achane could be a good NFL player IMO.   

 

Back to Sanders, some say late first, I am guessing mid 2nd, right around where we pick unless he blows up the combine which I think he might.  

 

Sanders to my eyes is a poor man's Parsons as to style of play -- and I did push Parsons pass rushing chops pre-draft.   

 

Del Rio likes to blitz the LB, Double A blitzes, etc.  Jamin is decent at it.  And I billed Jamin as a sneaky good pass rusher before that draft in the limited snaps I saw him do it but he's not as good as Sanders on that front IMO. 

 

A dude who can play off the ball and on the ball LB and can blitz and get home I think would add to this defense.  Our defense is really good but we don't have that element like the Eagles and Dallas do -- Parsons, Reddick.  And i don't think its coincidece that they have a better pass rush than us.

 

I hyped Ivan Pace recently.  Though Pace uses his speed to dart by O lineman, Sanders has real pass rusing moves, swim move, rip move, bull rush but sometimes like Pace he also tries to speed past the O lineman without much technique.  I like the idea of adding a linebacker who plays off the ball, yet can attack the Qb, too. 

 

I think good coaching could mold him.  IMO he does the hard part as far as play recognition and isn't fooled much but he needs to learn how to finish his tackles and tackle lower IMO.  And as a pass rusher, ditto, being a work in progress.  Sometimes he's a real handful as a rusher, saw him beat two O lineman in short order against Cincy, for a great highlight sack.  But then sometimes he comes off like he's just bull rushing without much of a plan and or just runs into traffic.

 

Definitely a chess piece player.  I had to keep pausing the game to spot him before the play.  In the box.  Back in coverage. Strong side, weak side.  Blitzing the A gap.  Coming off the left edge.  Coming off the right edge.  Among players i've watched over the years, he was one of the hardest players for me to zone in on because he would move so often play to play, I can only find one game where he specifically was circled where I didn't have to track him.  

 

 

Pros

5 star recruit, good athlete, has long legs, looks fast

Fluid in space both laterally and backpeddiling

Good range

Played for Saban for part of his career -- typically Saban players are smart players

Good play recognition -- finds himself near the ball

I can see him being a good QB spy, can chase down ball carriers with good lateral speed

 

Cons

Misses tackles, tackles a bit high similar to Pace

Like Parsons his main tool is pass rushing -- its not like he doesn't do other things well on the other fronts but is solid on other fronts nothing that jumps out

While he often plays under control but then in moments he can lose that discipline and over pursues and comes off a bit reckless.

I like his athleticism but he also seemed a bit stiff in the hips, I wonder if that's why he doesn't get as low as I'd like as a tackler

 

Saban basically said he was about to be moved to play off the ball LB but Sanders decided to go to Arkansas anyway.

 

https://tdalabamamag.com/2022/09/26/nick-saban-what-role-drew-sanders-mightve-had-stayed-alabama/

His versatility was certainly something head coach Nick Saban was looking to take advantage of this season as he likely would have shifted Sanders to inside linebacker if he’d remained at Alabama.

“That was probably what we were going to do, but never worked out,” Saban said when asked about Sanders playing middle linebacker. “It is what it is. It’s good for him that he can play both positions and that he’s doing well.”

This wasn’t the first time Saban has inferred about what role Sanders may have had with the team, for back on August 31, Saban said during the SEC coaches teleconference that Sanders probably would’ve started.

“He’s a fine young man, really good football player,” Saban said. “Played extremely well for us last year, had an unfortunate injury that held him back. He would have probably been a starter here this year.

“I’m sure he’s probably going to do really well where he is there at Arkansas. He’s a great competitor and person. I can’t say enough good things about him.”

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 19, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Going Commando]

 

3 hours ago, KDawg said:

I have Witherspoon as CB2/3 atm and I think he can go up. 

 

I think his film is the best of the bunch.  I really love the aggressive way he played in the Michigan game and the physicality he demonstrated in coverage and playing the run.  Watching him take over that game was an eye-opener because I did not realize Illinois had dudes like that in their secondary.  He looks like he's ready to go into an NFL secondary and take over a leadership role where he singles up on the opponent's best receiver, like the role that Tre White or Jaire Alexander have for their teams.  Just seems to have that kind of alpha personality and he really reminds me of Jaylon Johnson and compares well to him.  Everyone here probably knows it already, but I loved Johnson and he was one of my favorite corner prospects of the past couple seasons.

 

I could definitely see him being the best corner from the class right out of the gate.  But I think that the big corners will be CBs 1-3 after the combine.  The upside that Porter/Ringo/Gonzalez offer is going to be extremely tantalizing for teams.  Thinking about how high Horn and Surtain and Gardner and Stingley went, I could see any of those three going top ten for sure.  Maybe even two of them could, except that I think five DLs and three QBs are probably going top ten, so there aren't a lot of openings for corners in that range.

 

We haven't really talked a lot about it in this thread because we're picking too late for the creme de la creme DLs, and we already have such a good line, but this really is a special DL crop.  It honestly feels like the best group of high draft pick DLs since 2011's legendary crop.  The edge class is better than 2019's crop, but the IDL crop isn't quite as good as that one was.  Myles Murphy and Tyree Wilson could be DL1 most drafts, and they could be DL4 or DL5 this year.  That's why there is a part of me still holding out hope that the DLs go top ten, Mayer and Johnston go top ten, Bijan's hype gets him picked early, and that Kelee Ringo runs a 4.2 and Gonzalez and Porter run 4.3s and Bryce Young shows up in Indy weighing 190 pounds.  That's the scenario where he slides right down into the ~11-12 range for us to be within trade-up distance.

[Stone Cold]

20 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Drew Sanders, I really dig his potential as a player.   Watched 3 games.   Davin Achane really shined in the AM game, that dude makes some lightining quick cuts, good balance and vision.  I prefer Gibbs to Achane but Achane could be a good NFL player IMO.   

 

Back to Sanders, some say late first, I am guessing mid 2nd, right around where we pick unless he blows up the combine which I think he might.  

 

Sanders to my eyes is a poor man's Parsons as to style of play -- and I did push Parsons pass rushing chops pre-draft.   

 

Del Rio likes to blitz the LB, Double A blitzes, etc.  Jamin is decent at it.  And I billed Jamin as a sneaky good pass rusher before that draft in the limited snaps I saw him do it but he's not as good as Sanders on that front IMO. 

 

A dude who can play off the ball and on the ball LB and can blitz and get home I think would add to this defense.  Our defense is really good but we don't have that element like the Eagles and Dallas do -- Parsons, Reddick.  And i don't think its coincidece that they have a better pass rush than us.

 

I hyped Ivan Pace recently.  Though Pace uses his speed to dart by O lineman, Sanders has real pass rusing moves, swim move, rip move, bull rush but sometimes like Pace he also tries to speed past the O lineman without much technique.  I like the idea of adding a linebacker who plays off the ball, yet can attack the Qb, too. 

 

I think good coaching could mold him.  IMO he does the hard part as far as play recognition and isn't fooled much but he needs to learn how to finish his tackles and tackle lower IMO.  And as a pass rusher, ditto, being a work in progress.  Sometimes he's a real handful as a rusher, saw him beat two O lineman in short order against Cincy, for a great highlight sack.  But then sometimes he comes off like he's just bull rushing without much of a plan and or just runs into traffic.

 

Definitely a chess piece player.  I had to keep pausing the game to spot him before the play.  In the box.  Back in coverage. Strong side, weak side.  Blitzing the A gap.  Coming off the left edge.  Coming off the right edge.  Among players i've watched over the years, he was one of the hardest players for me to zone in on because he would move so often play to play, I can only find one game where he specifically was circled where I didn't have to track him.  

 

 

Pros

5 star recruit, good athlete, has long legs, looks fast

Fluid in space both laterally and backpeddiling

Good range

Played for Saban for part of his career -- typically Saban players are smart players

Good play recognition -- finds himself near the ball

I can see him being a good QB spy, can chase down ball carriers with good lateral speed

 

Cons

Misses tackles, tackles a bit high similar to Pace

Like Parsons his main tool is pass rushing -- its not like he doesn't do other things well on the other fronts but is solid on other fronts nothing that jumps out

While he often plays under control but then in moments he can lose that discipline and over pursues and comes off a bit reckless.

I like his athleticism but he also seemed a bit stiff in the hips, I wonder if that's why he doesn't get as low as I'd like as a tackler

 

Saban basically said he was about to be moved to play off the ball LB but Sanders decided to go to Arkansas anyway.

 

https://tdalabamamag.com/2022/09/26/nick-saban-what-role-drew-sanders-mightve-had-stayed-alabama/

His versatility was certainly something head coach Nick Saban was looking to take advantage of this season as he likely would have shifted Sanders to inside linebacker if he’d remained at Alabama.

“That was probably what we were going to do, but never worked out,” Saban said when asked about Sanders playing middle linebacker. “It is what it is. It’s good for him that he can play both positions and that he’s doing well.”

This wasn’t the first time Saban has inferred about what role Sanders may have had with the team, for back on August 31, Saban said during the SEC coaches teleconference that Sanders probably would’ve started.

“He’s a fine young man, really good football player,” Saban said. “Played extremely well for us last year, had an unfortunate injury that held him back. He would have probably been a starter here this year.

“I’m sure he’s probably going to do really well where he is there at Arkansas. He’s a great competitor and person. I can’t say enough good things about him.”

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Been sayin I want this guy to sure up the second level.  He’s a gamewrecker 

[Blanka]

Mid round CB to keep an eye on Mekhi Blackmon. Was a bright spot on a poor Trojans defense this season. I’m super interested to see how he tests. Was sticky in coverage but one of those guys where his speed doesn’t jump off the screen. Although rarely beat deep.

 

 

 

Edited January 19, 2023 by Blanka

[Skinsinparadise]

18 minutes ago, Stone Cold said:

Been sayin I want this guy to sure up the second level.  He’s a gamewrecker 

 

He is a lot of fun to watch.   Speaking of just pass rushing, I recall falling for Chase Young watching him because at least in college there was almost no break in him being a handful to contain.  He was almost a constant menance in many games albiet not all of them.  For Drew, he can disappear for part of the game on that front.   But like I said IMO this dude has immense potential. 

 

Not too many college defenders are moved around the defense like this dude.    He was in coverage in the games I watched as much as in the box.  They move him around everywhere as a LB, seemed like mostly strong side-middle.  And they also move him around everywhere as a pass rusher -- left edge, right edge, versus 0-1 technique.   And he doesn't look lost at any of these spots.  He's at least solid IMO everywhere.   I think his instincts are good, too.  I don't love the way he tackles though.  He has a high miss tackle rate.   I think you can fix that though because that's technique.

 

The first game i watched him, at the beginning I started to type this dude is the best pass rushing off the ball LB I've seen in the last few years aside from Parsons.  But then as I watched more, his pass rushing was contained for a chunk of the game so I curbed my enthusiasm some but overall I liked a lot of what I saw.

 

The one play i mentioned where he occupied two Cincy blockers and used a wicked swim move to dart past the first O lineman and then just in slippery way got past the other O lineman and sacked the QB, and it all happened lightening fast was one of the favorite highlights I've seen of any college defender I watched.   I think a good defensive coordinator could mold him into a very good player IMO.

 

His combine will interest me.  He has rangy good speed, moves well laterally.  He has long legs so I wonder about his get off on the 40.   I wonder about agility.  He can move well but also there seems to be some hip stiffness.  But will see.

 

Edited January 19, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

55 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

 

I think his film is the best of the bunch. 

 

I just watched the Wyoming game, he looked great in that one, had a pick and almost took it to the house.  Flawless outside of missing one run block but was physical against the run in general.   Tough for me to watch corners because you can't see the full play without coaches tape-ariel type views. 

 

But the one trait I trust my eyes the most on as to CBs as digging corners that are sticky, all over the QB without being too grabby.  Loved Sauce Gardner for the same reason -- it wasn't hard to see it with Sauce who was sticky, on top of the WR stride for stride down the field on all three levels.   Not saying Witherspoon is on par with that but I did like what I saw in game 1 I watched, I'll watch more.

 

PFF worships the guy, see their write up which I include at the bottom.

 

 

https://247sports.com/college/illinois/Article/Illini-cornerback-Devon-Witherspoon-semifinalist-for-Jim-Thorpe-Award-Illinois-football-head-coach-Bret-Bielema-Aaron-Henry-196187506/

Witherspoon is the No. 1 graded power-five cornerback in the country, according to Pro Football Focus, the No. 20-graded defender in the country and has the fourth-highest defensive grade in the Big Ten.

Witherspoon is tied for first in the country for completion rate among players who have been targeted at least 25 times. He's been targeted 42 times, which is 27th-most in the country. The player he's tied with, Mac Williams from UAB, has been targeted 29 times. Witherspoon also has the top coverage grade in the country, according to PFF.

“He’s a student of the game,” said Illinois defensive backs coach Aaron Henry. “I tell those guys in my room all the time, ‘I don’t teach defense. I teach offense.’ He understands what route combinations are occurring. He understands wide receiver splits. The young man is brilliantly intelligent. He’s very, very, very smart. He can tell you what formations, what routes they like and when they like to run them. He’s that intelligent.

"He’s probably one of the smarter guys I’ve had back there, especially at the corner position. He’s so wise. He understands the game. Obviously, with a lot of experience playing here, he has a great feel for it. Being in this conference, he has a natural feel for it. He expects to make plays. He expects to have good games because that’s the way he practices.”

 

 

...In addition to his coverage skills, Witherspoon has also shown more than a willingness to get his nose in the mix and tackle. He’s eighth on the team with 20 tackles, which is third-most among defensive backs (behind only Quan Martin’s 33 and Sydney Brown’s 28).

During a loss to Indiana in the second game of the season, Witherspoon perfectly read a play and blew up Indiana running back Shaun Shivers on the first defensive possession of the game.

Though that play made its rounds online, it’s a par-for-the-course type of play for Witherspoon, who has been aggressive as a tackler all season.

“That’s a mindset, man,” Henry said. “That’s a mindset. Some dudes are just wired that way. The most important fundamental in tackling is want to. Above anything. Above your skill. Above your size. You’ve got to want to do it. The good lord blessed him. He’s wired that way. That’s how he plays the game. It’s not a shock to anybody in this building because we see it every single day. Obviously, the rest of the world has a chance to see it on Saturday, but that’s just the way he’s wired. He wants to be in the box. He wants to be physical. He wants to tackle. That’s what he’s showing.”

 

 

 

 

Edited January 19, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Conn]

4 hours ago, Chump Bailey said:

 

Trust your gut GC. I do  

 

I think the one aspect of BR's game that is so appealing to me is vision and cut ability. He's the only back I can recall to remind me of former Lion great Barry Sanders. I can't wait to see how he times at the combine. 

 

I think the artist FKA stevemcqueen is correct, it feels very unlikely that he runs at the combine because he’s been hearing for 3 years that he’s generational. He won’t need to and it may only hurt him. If he does have the confidence to run, it HAS to be because he actually knows he is a 4.4 guy. Which feels unlikely watching him, but you never know. 

[Skinsinparadise]

14 minutes ago, Conn said:

 

I think the artist FKA stevemcqueen is correct, it feels very unlikely that he runs at the combine because he’s been hearing for 3 years that he’s generational. He won’t need to and it may only hurt him. If he does have the confidence to run, it HAS to be because he actually knows he is a 4.4 guy. Which feels unlikely watching him, but you never know. 

 

Agree. 

 

With Robinson while many love him as a player most do not see him as a lightening fast runner so I wonder if that compels him to run or not. 

Edited January 19, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Going Commando]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I just watched the Wyoming game, he looked great in that one, had a pick and almost took it to the house.  Flawless outside of missing one run block but was physical against the run in general.   Tough for me to watch corners because you can't see the full play without coaches tape-ariel type views. 

 

But the one trait I trust my eyes the most on as to CBs as digging corners that are sticky, all over the QB without being too grabby.  Loved Sauce Gardner for the same reason -- it wasn't hard to see it with Sauce who was sticky, on top of the WR stride for stride down the field on all three levels.   Not saying Witherspoon is on par with that but I did like what I saw in game 1 I watched, I'll watch more.

 

PFF worships the guy, see their write up which I include at the bottom.

 

Yeah it is really tough to assess corners from the broadcast view of games, which is why it feels so palpable when you get one who is out there just dominating and taking over the game.  When you see one shining, they can really shine, kind of like how Stephon Gilmore took over SB 53 against the Rams.  That's what it was like watching that thrilling Illini vs Wolverines game live, where it really seemed like Witherspoon might will his team to the win until Michigan made that last second field goal.  For some reason JJ McCarthy kept throwing at him and putting the ball in harm's way, and I was kind of pulling for Michigan (have a friend who is a huge fan and an alum) and it was killing me.  One of the things that is hard to get from cut ups is the feel of the emotion and momentum during the game, and when a guy has a star quality that has everyone in the stadium and in the broadcast booth fired up.  I wish everyone here could see that game again, because if they did, I guarantee they would come away from it liking Witherspoon.

 

I was leaning against drafting a corner in the first round, but the more I go through the corner class, the more I like the players.  JSN is still one of my favorite players and options for us in the first round, but I'm starting to think Witherspoon and Cam Smith are the likely BPAs at 16 after him.  I think one of those guys could push our defense into being a legit top five unit.

[Koolblue13]

I mentioned Sanders a few pages back and how he could be our Reddick/Parsons. 

 

I think it's almost impossible to trade back from where we're at, but I'd love to load day two with picks. 

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, Koolblue13 said:

I mentioned Sanders a few pages back and how he could be our Reddick/Parsons. 

 

I think it's almost impossible to trade back from where we're at, but I'd love to load day two with picks. 

 

Not sure how easy it will be trade down from 16 but possible, yeah I'd consider a trade down

Edited January 19, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Koolblue13]

3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Not sure how easy it will be trade down from 16 but possible, yeah I'd consider a trade down

It's kind of a **** spot to back out of. There's a bunch of solid players there, so it's fine, but it just seems like a good year to live on day two.

[Skinsinparadise]

As for DT's, we got our own big men, but Parson's touting Dexter Lawrence and Vita Vea below got my attention. 

 

Just watched a game of Siaka Ika, that dude is a handful.  In that Lawrence, Vea mold, monster immovable player as a run stopper but can also just blow up the O line as a pass rusher.  Big dude in the Vea, Lawrence mold.    Not as good IMO so poor man's version.

 

I put a clip below of three blocks occupying Ika and Ika still wasn't easy to contain.  He doesn't have big numbers, might drop to the 2nd?

 

 

 

Edited January 19, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

8 hours ago, Going Commando said:

 

Yeah it is really tough to assess corners from the broadcast view of games, which is why it feels so palpable when you get one who is out there just dominating and taking over the game.  When you see one shining, they can really shine, kind of like how Stephon Gilmore took over SB 53 against the Rams.  That's what it was like watching that thrilling Illini vs Wolverines game live, where it really seemed like Witherspoon might will his team to the win until Michigan made that last second field goal.  

 

PFF isn't always on the money but when they are over the moon on a player like they are with Witherspoon, and higher on that player than other draftniks, they are often right.  Between that, and what I watched so far, and the article I read about him where he's described by coaches as a studier who is uber smart and he says his idol is Darelle Revis.   That's a powerful combination for me.  So on the table for me at 16 for sure. 

 

I like that he has some Fred Smoot personality in him.  We got a lot of quiet guys on this team.  Some personality, would be fun.  Joe Gibbs liked to say everything being equal he likes having a mix of personalities on a team, introverts, extroverts, etc.

 

 

https://247sports.com/college/illinois/Article/Devon-Witherspoon-Illinois-Fighting-Illini-football-NFL-Draft-trash-talker-190848133/

CHAMPAIGN — Devon Witherspoon is a pest. So says Casey Washington, though the Illinois wide receiver means it in the most positive way.

When Witherspoon covers wideouts, the fourth-year Illini cornerback is a bug. Always buzzing. Always irritating.

“It’s like you’re outside and there’s flies around you, there’s a bunch of gnats and you’re just smacking all of them,” Washington said. “You’re good for two seconds, you walk away and the gnats are right back in your face. You never get enough of it. He’s a hell of a competitor.”

 

When Witherspoon is on the field, he lets you know he’s there. Asked who is the biggest talker among the Illini defensive backs, Illinois star wide receiver Isaiah Williams said: “Spoon is number one and then we go to like five. …Spoon, he really talks smack.”

But Witherspoon backs it up.

Last season his third at Illinois, he earned All-Big Ten honorable mention. In 10 games, he had 52 tackles, 8.0 tackles for loss (second on the team) and a team-leading nine pass breakups. He overcame a rough start — PFF credits him for allowing 14 receptions on 19 targets for 193 yards and one touchdown in back-to-back nonconference losses to UTSA and Virginia — to mostly shut down his side of the field during conference play.

During the final nine games of the season, according to PFF, Witherspoon allowed just 17 receptions on 32 targets for 168 yards and zero touchdowns. That’s 5.25 yards per target and 18.7 yards per game. Pretty good.

 

“His next step, the sky’s the limit for him," Illinois cornerbacks coach Aaron Henry said during the spring.

Witherspoon admits he “came in talking” at Illinois. He’s always played sports with an outward competitive edge. But through his play, he’s also probably earned the credibility to dish it out.

“I got to talk my stuff now. I got to talk my stuff,” Witherspoon said. “I’ve been like that since I was a kid just having fun. If you can’t have fun out there, then you probably can’t have a good day. So just always go back to why you started playing football, and just a little talk now and then, it keeps the game interesting and fun.”

Illinois linebacker Tarique Barnes said the defense feeds off the swagger with which Witherspoon plays. That’s the point, Witherspoon said. Along with getting in the head of his opponent, it’s about boosting his own confidence or his teammates' confidence.

 

“If your teammates see you’re playing with a lot of confidence, that’ll probably boost their confidence, especially the young guys as they watch us play," Witherspoon said. "…I bring the energy and the swag. I can say that for sure because I like to have my teammates hyped up, keep their energy flowing.”

Edited January 19, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[HigSkin]

47 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Not sure how easy it will be trade down from 16 but possible, yeah I'd consider a trade down

 

Agree, seems like we would need to be in the early teens to get the attractive return.  We'll see.

 

 

[Koolblue13]

I really hope we double dip at CB this draft. I'd also love LB (pass rushing), C, OT, TE

[Skinsinparadise]

14 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

I really hope we double dip at CB this draft. I'd also love LB (pass rushing), C, OT, TE

 

I haven't dived into the class yet aside from compiling stats and watching Witherspoon but I'd say I am more intrigued by Witherspoon than name that OT that I think will be there at 16.  I am not sure if Broderick Jones will still be there at 16 but I think I'd go Witherspoon over him.  In the 2nd, there should be probably every center available maybe with the exception of Michael-Schmitz, all the guards sans Torrence. 

 

Tackles -- Harrison, Mauch, Freeland, Dawand Jones I'd guess 3 of the four are still there.  I still have to watch Mauch.  Tyler Steen struck me some watching him but I gather I have to watch him more because most media draftniks don't seem to rank him high, so maybe a cherry picked the wrong games.

Edited January 19, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Koolblue13]

4 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I haven't dived into the class yet aside from compiling stats and watching Witherspoon but I'd say I am more intrigued by Witherspoon than name that OT that I think will be there at 16.  I am not sure if Broderick Jones will still be there at 16 but I think I'd go Witherspoon over him.  In the 2nd, there should be probably every center available maybe with the exception of Michael-Schmitz, all the guards sans Torrence. 

 

Tackles -- Harrison, Mauch, Freeland, Dawand Jones I'd guess 3 of the four are still there.  I still have to watch Mauch.  Tyler Steen struck me some watching him but I gather I have to watch him more because most media draftniks don't seem to rank him high, so maybe a cherrypicked the wrong games.

It does seem to lean CB/IOL/IOL the first two days and I'd be good with that.

[Chump Bailey]

11 hours ago, Conn said:

 

I think the artist FKA stevemcqueen is correct, it feels very unlikely that he runs at the combine because he’s been hearing for 3 years that he’s generational. He won’t need to and it may only hurt him. If he does have the confidence to run, it HAS to be because he actually knows he is a 4.4 guy. Which feels unlikely watching him, but you never know. 

 

I agree. Top end speed with Robinson is certainly a grey area. I think he looks like a 4.49/5 candidate. It's hard to gauge because it's impressive when he accelerates and hits the hole but then seems to fizzle out. 

[Chump Bailey]

I'm officially aboard Maryland CB Deonte Bank's hype train. I watched a bit and came away impressed.

 

 

Side note: A player I did not have much interest diving into turned out to be much, much better than I anticipated: Iowa Hawkeye CB Riley Moss.

[KDawg]

Haven’t looked at DL yet. That’s next on my to do. But the preseason look I gave it and from what I know of the prospects, DL is extremely deep. 
 

If Payne walks, I wouldn’t be surprised if we are including DL in our search. 
 

Can’t wait to take a deep dive.

24 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I haven't dived into the class yet aside from compiling stats and watching Witherspoon but I'd say I am more intrigued by Witherspoon than name that OT that I think will be there at 16.  I am not sure if Broderick Jones will still be there at 16 but I think I'd go Witherspoon over him.  In the 2nd, there should be probably every center available maybe with the exception of Michael-Schmitz, all the guards sans Torrence. 

 

Tackles -- Harrison, Mauch, Freeland, Dawand Jones I'd guess 3 of the four are still there.  I still have to watch Mauch.  Tyler Steen struck me some watching him but I gather I have to watch him more because most media draftniks don't seem to rank him high, so maybe a cherry picked the wrong games.

I’m curious where Bergeron falls. I think he’d be fantastic.

[Koolblue13]

Yeah, we seemed to sour on Wise after his impressive start, but Mathis coming back and Ridgeway looked really good. Obada plays some DT, so if we lose Payne, i don't think we "need" to address it, but I still want to keep him.

[Skinsinparadise]

7 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Haven’t looked at DL yet. That’s next on my to do. But the preseason look I gave it and from what I know of the prospects, DL is extremely deep. 
 

If Payne walks, I wouldn’t be surprised if we are including DL in our search. 
 

Can’t wait to take a deep dive.

I’m curious where Bergeron falls. I think he’d be fantastic.

 

I haven't watched Bergeron yet but will.   I noticed he gave up the 2nd most sacks among the OT prospects in this draft.  But otherwise heard good things. 

 

I do like Freeland who I think also would be in that range.

[Skinsinparadise]

36 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Yeah, we seemed to sour on Wise after his impressive start, but Mathis coming back and Ridgeway looked really good. Obada plays some DT, so if we lose Payne, i don't think we "need" to address it, but I still want to keep him.

 

I was listening to Keim this morning.  He wasn't reporting this but speculated about a tag and trade.  And he also wondered if Payne would be happy playing on the tag.  Some players are cool with it, others get pissed.   

 

I'd rather keep Payne everything being equal.  And I know according to Keim and others so would the team.  But the tag and trade might be a perfect storm here.

 

A. the tag money now is reasonable for that position for someone of Payne's caliber

 

B.   Payne having his breakout season this year is it makes him more marketable.  No longer you have to sell he could have a lot of sacks if -- now you can sell the actual sacks.

 

C.  This key point for me is this.  They might not have any choice but to tag him versus lock him up because of the ownership issue.  The speculation is Dan doesn't want to escrow some big contract with guaranteed money in the midst of a sale.  

 

So if that's the case, if they tag him and Payne is pissed about (not sure if he would be or not but lets say he is) it likely means we got Payne on a 1 year rental and we lose him for a 3rd round comp pick 2 years later.  If they trade him, I think they'd get a first.  Last year what was said was teams were offering a third, maybe if they were lucky they can get a 2nd but IMO this season is a game changer, I think they'd get a #1. 

 

I fell hard for Payne this year, love his play.  My one pause about him is i can't recall a player so seemingly attached to money-payday. It brings me back to the stories about Stubblefield who also had a career year in sacks pre-FA and was supposedly fixated on the payday. Haynesworth granted had plenty of other issues but he also had a career year and was fixated on the money.

 

Don't get me wrong, i think every player wants to get paid and i don't blame them for it.  But in Payne's case the narrative is a bit more over the top than I am used to.  Payne making pay me the money gestures after sacks, wearing all green on his exit day, saying you know what i want referencing money, and not being shy at all as to making it clear there isn't any loyalty to anything but getting that big contract.  I'd guess plenty of players think that but for a player to be that open about it and beat guys saying things that match it -- it hits me for being more over the top than usual. 

 

He's almost like out of Jerry McGuire level "Show Me The Money."  What I wonder is once Payne gets the money does he lose a little oomph in his play.  Logan Paulsen was talking about how Payne was practicing with more oomph-determination than what he saw in other years.  So does that carry once he gets his payday?  Don't get me wrong, I still think he will be good but would he be as good?  SF sold Buckner at his peak and reloaded with D line in the draft.  Back in the day, Belichick would sell assets when they were at their peak value. Payne right now is at peak value.

 

I know some here say they'd rather sell Sweat.  I would, too.  But the circumstances lend more to Payne being the guy to move.  Forgetting everything else I said, the main plot line for me is if they have no choice but to tag Payne, then I'd rather trade him. 

Edited January 19, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Chump Bailey]

I thought I read we were looking at a certain RB, but I think Syracuse RB Sean Tucker would be a nice addition.