The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Skinsinparadise]

11 hours ago, wit33 said:

For sure, no model is going to be perfect.
 

To your point: Vikings are 7-1 with Kirk being paid top 5 and Tannenhill is the highest paid and Titans are 5-3. 
 

I was all for Mariota. He’s a poor mans Alex Smith in many ways—As far as managing games. 

 

I didn't really argue for Kirk as for Minny's contract but yeah at the moment its looking good for them if they end up having a run, will see.  My argument for Kirk was THIS team had a shot at him in the low 20s and didn't take it, then let his price rise, then could have traded him and didn't -- as Jay among others have suggested a complete mismanagement debacle.  But in retrospect I love that it went down thay way since it among other series of blunders have led to where we are IMO with Dan.

 

Mariota's mobility is special.  4.5 speed.  On another strata over Alex in that context.  Alex though being the better game manger and more durable -- at least through most of his career.

 

But in short, I am not opposed to paying guys in their heyday who are GOOD QBs and at times very good.  Obviously not top of the market but I'd give good money too.

 

I've never been a Tannehill guy.   Derek Carr is one I liked that I know you don't.   Raiders having an abysmal season though.  Carr in the top 10 in QBR.  But clearly somethinng isn't clicking for them.  Maybe McDaniles stinks.  This is the 2nd time now he's flaming out in the NFC West.

 

On the aggregate, i like guys who can move.  Or pocket passers who have some wiggle -- which fits guys like Carr and Stafford.

 

Wentz IMO can't really move.  And if he's pure pocket passer now, I can't get excited -- since he's not Brees, Manning, etc accuracy wise.  So i am not in the camp of I want to see more.  If he can't move that much, i am not convinced he all of sudden will turn into a pinpoint accurate passer considering he's never been that.

 

My take right now is Howell or go fishing in the draft.

 

I've been right about some of the QBs, and been wrong.  I'll grant its really really hard to project.  The reason why I like Mariota is he brings high intangibles, accuracy is decent and 4.5 speed is rare for QBs at his size.

 

I liked Tua before the draft.  It looked abysmal for him initially but he's turning it around.  I wonder if its him healing completely from his surgery which he was coming off on in that draft year.  I'd be lying if i thought Hurts would be this good.  I didn't hate him but didn't love him either.  And would never guess Russell Wilson would fall off a cliff.

 

Back to Kirk, I don't have an issue that some do with his style of play.  I think his accuracy is very consistent.  His durability is VERY underrated.   We've had a miserable run at QB after he left and a lot of that was about QBs getting hurt.  I just got one beef with Kirk and that is he isn't clutch -- he's not the train wreck on that front that some say he is, he does have moments ala outdueling Brees in a playoff game.  But on the aggregate "meh" in the clutch.  Conversely the reason why I liked Carr is he's typically good in big games albeit granted the Raiders haven't had enough big games. 

 

QBR ratings, granted not gospel

 

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/qbr

NFL Total QBR - 2022 Season Leaders

Total QBR - All NFL

RK	NAME
1	Tua TagovailoaMIA
2	Patrick MahomesKC
3	Josh AllenBUF
4	Geno SmithSEA
5	Lamar JacksonBAL
6	Jalen HurtsPHI
7	Jacoby BrissettCLE
8	Cooper RushDAL
9	Marcus MariotaATL
10	Derek CarrLV
11	Justin HerbertLAC
12	Daniel JonesNYG
13	Justin FieldsCHI
14	Joe BurrowCIN
15	Jared GoffDET
16	Tom BradyTB
17	Trevor LawrenceJAX
18	Kirk CousinsMIN
19	Andy DaltonNO
20	Zach WilsonNYJ
21	Kyler MurrayARI
22	Jimmy GaroppoloSF
23	Matthew StaffordLAR
24	Matt RyanIND
25	Ryan TannehillTEN
26	Kenny PickettPIT
27	Aaron RodgersGB
28	Russell WilsonDEN
29	Carson WentzWSH
30	Davis MillsHOU
31	Mac JonesNE
32	Baker MayfieldCAR

 

Edited November 9, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Zim489]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

But clearly somethinng isn't clicking for them.  Maybe McDaniels stinks.

They had 5 first rounders from 2019-2021. None of them are on the team currently. Their drafting was abysmal with Gruden and Mayock.

[Warhead36]

4 minutes ago, Zim489 said:

They had 5 first rounders from 2019-2021. None of them are on the team currently. Their drafting was abysmal with Gruden and Mayock.

From what I've heard, Gruden chose the 1st rounders which is why they suck. They've actually done well with their mid round picks which were Mayock choices, but obviously you can't whiff that much on 1st rounders and expect to be good.

 

But they've also blown like three 17 point leads so far this year so that's on the current coaching staff.

Edited November 9, 2022 by Warhead36

[mistertim]

34 minutes ago, Zim489 said:

They had 5 first rounders from 2019-2021. None of them are on the team currently. Their drafting was abysmal with Gruden and Mayock.

 

I agree that their recent 1st round draft picks have been mostly abysmal, but Josh Jacobs and Clelin Ferrell are still on the team. However, LV opted to not pick up their 5th year options so they'll be FAs after this season. Ferrell I can understand as he's been very underwhelming, especially for a 4th overall pick. Jacobs is a bit of a surprise though, as he's been pretty damn good.

[Koolblue13]

The Raider blow leads so big, yo'd think their QB was Matt Ryan.

[wit33]

4 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I didn't really argue for Kirk as for Minny's contract but yeah at the moment its looking good for them if they end up having a run, will see.  My argument for Kirk was THIS team had a shot at him in the low 20s and didn't take it, then let his price rise, then could have traded him and didn't -- as Jay among others have suggested a complete mismanagement debacle.

 

Clear where we both stand on this for years. Had no interest meeting the demands of Kirk and team. He wanted a fully guaranteed contract after a half season good play (2015). Admittedly, I was bias during this time due to not wanting the NFL to become strong armed by QBs much like the NBA super stars. Most likely me being romantic with the past and the team aspect of football. My background athletically and coaching is all basketball, but love being a fan of football due to the team side of it. 
 

4 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

  But in retrospect I love that it went down thay way since it among other series of blunders have led to where we are IMO with Dan.

 

100000000000%
 

4 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Mariota's mobility is special.  4.5 speed.  On another strata over Alex in that context.  Alex though being the better game manger and more durable -- at least through most of his career.

 

Travesty how both were used early in their careers. Mariota a bit less than Smith. Imagine being Smith and in an offense not featuring your legs. Dude didn’t run for more 180 yards in his first seven seasons. 

 

4 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

But in short, I am not opposed to paying guys in their heyday who are GOOD QBs and at times very good.  Obviously not top of the market but I'd give good money too.

 

I've never been a Tannehill guy.   Derek Carr is one I liked that I know you don't.   Raiders having an abysmal season though.  Carr in the top 10 in QBR.  But clearly somethinng isn't clicking for them.  Maybe McDaniles stinks.  This is the 2nd time now he's flaming out in the NFC West.

 

Both is same category for me. They fail to change or establish momentum enough in games  to warrant big money. In now way is this a right or wrong thing for me, I can see why coaches and FOs want those type of guys. I prefer to remain lean and hunt for the next rookie contract who is above average. Of course, getting a Mahomes or Allen is the dream. 
 

4 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

On the aggregate, i like guys who can move.  Or pocket passers who have some wiggle -- which fits guys like Carr and Stafford.

 

These guys are a dying breed, but still battling and have value. I understand they have some wiggle, but not enough to remain consistent year in and out. Consistent from impacting wins and losses. This is reserved for the guys who are magician like when extending and creating.
 

In now way saying you can’t build a team around them and make it happen. Being consistent will be tough, but that’s the case for most teams. 
 

4 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Wentz IMO can't really move.  And if he's pure pocket passer now, I can't get excited -- since he's not Brees, Manning, etc accuracy wise.  So i am not in the camp of I want to see more.  If he can't move that much, i am not convinced he all of sudden will turn into a pinpoint accurate passer considering he's never been that.

 

Locked in with you on this take. When a player begins to go against inclination and 15-20 years of hardwiring that’s a tough battle. 
 

Like you, I don’t think he’s a bad QB that many make him out to be. 

 

4 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

My take right now is Howell or go fishing in the draft.

 

I've been right about some of the QBs, and been wrong.  I'll grant its really really hard to project.  The reason why I like Mariota is he brings high intangibles, accuracy is decent and 4.5 speed is rare for QBs at his size.

 

Pretty rare to have that run element from the QB and be able to see over the line. 
 

4 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I liked Tua before the draft.  It looked abysmal for him initially but he's turning it around.  I wonder if its him healing completely from his surgery which he was coming off on in that draft year.  I'd be lying if i thought Hurts would be this good.  I didn't hate him but didn't love him either.  And would never guess Russell Wilson would fall off a cliff.

 

I was out on Russ when he began to remove the run element from his game a couple years back. Extremely happy Washington was not the team to secure him with big money. Have to imagine he gets back to at least an above level of play. It’s been brutal though. 
 

4 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Back to Kirk, I don't have an issue that some do with his style of play.  I think his accuracy is very consistent.  His durability is VERY underrated.   We've had a miserable run at QB after he left and a lot of that was about QBs getting hurt.  I just got one beef with Kirk and that is he isn't clutch -- he's not the train wreck on that front that some say he is, he does have moments ala outdueling Brees in a playoff game.  But on the aggregate "meh" in the clutch.  Conversely the reason why I liked Carr is he's typically good in big games albeit granted the Raiders haven't had enough big games. 
 

 

I’m completely out on the clutch metric as a whole and believes in provides little value. 
 

Kirk fails to establish, maintain, or reverse momentum enough for me to separate him from pack of QBs 10-20. 
 

 

4 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

QBR ratings, granted not gospel

 

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/qbr

NFL Total QBR - 2022 Season Leaders

Total QBR - All NFL

RK	NAME
1	Tua TagovailoaMIA
2	Patrick MahomesKC
3	Josh AllenBUF
4	Geno SmithSEA
5	Lamar JacksonBAL
6	Jalen HurtsPHI
7	Jacoby BrissettCLE
8	Cooper RushDAL
9	Marcus MariotaATL
10	Derek CarrLV
11	Justin HerbertLAC
12	Daniel JonesNYG
13	Justin FieldsCHI
14	Joe BurrowCIN
15	Jared GoffDET
16	Tom BradyTB
17	Trevor LawrenceJAX
18	Kirk CousinsMIN
19	Andy DaltonNO
20	Zach WilsonNYJ
21	Kyler MurrayARI
22	Jimmy GaroppoloSF
23	Matthew StaffordLAR
24	Matt RyanIND
25	Ryan TannehillTEN
26	Kenny PickettPIT
27	Aaron RodgersGB
28	Russell WilsonDEN
29	Carson WentzWSH
30	Davis MillsHOU
31	Mac JonesNE
32	Baker MayfieldCAR

 

 

Interesting list for sure lol A fair amount of guys being supported by a strong run game. A shift seems to have taken place in the NFL in that team are running the ball more. I know scoring is down, curious to know if running the ball is up this season.

 

Edited November 9, 2022 by wit33

[HigSkin]

Bram brought up an interesting idea to bring in Frank Reich as a consultant to the offense and how to best utilize Wentz to at least see what you have in him for the remainder of the year.

Edited November 9, 2022 by HigSkin

[KDawg]

15 minutes ago, HigSkin said:

Bram brought up an interesting idea to bring in Frank Reich as a consultant to the offense and how to best utilize Wentz to at least see what you have in him for the remainder of the year.

 

I think this is a terrible idea. Wentz shouldn't play much. We need the second rounder and we need to see Howell after this Monday night game with Philly. 

[HigSkin]

1 minute ago, KDawg said:

 

I think this is a terrible idea. Wentz shouldn't play much. We need the second rounder and we need to see Howell after this Monday night game with Philly. 

 

 

If you listen to Kiems podcast with Bram, neither of them thinks that happens.  They think it's more likely that if TH has a tough night, they go back to Wentz if ready or ride TH for another game.  They seemed determined that a change to Howell won't happen until they are completely eliminated from playoffs.

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, HigSkin said:

 

 

If you listen to Kiems podcast with Bram, neither of them thinks that happens.  They think it's more likely that if TH has a tough night, they go back to Wentz if ready or ride TH for another game.  They seemed determined that a change to Howell won't happen until they are completely eliminated from playoffs.

 

I can't, for the life of me, figure out why they wouldn't want the rookie to play except for that they plan on him being the starter next season and don't want to damage him.

 

Only issue there is that I'm not convinced this regime makes it to next season. 

[FootballZombie]

Oh man, I dying under video games over here. Hard to even keep up... worth it.

 

 

 

In all things equal world where we don't have a draft pick hanging in the balance, I'd expect Wentz would be the play after the Philly game.

Even with the draft pic limbo, Ron's loyalty feels inevitable and I can also see him forcing the issue and playing Wentz

 

I don't feel too good about the chances Howell starts games any time in the near future provided Wentz returning on schedule, but if things go as I think they will against Philly, I do see an oppo to get him in the game late this week as others have suggested.

I'm also with others on the confusion as to why Howell is not playing now however. If the OC does not trust the active QB to do... normal QB things like throw the ball, why is he the QB. I'd love to be a fly on the wall at practice b/c what we have going on is bizzare.

 

 

The thing that scares me most about Wentz is the significant injury scenario. I'm not 100% sure if we can cut him for nothing if he can't pass a physical in March. In that event, the dude would have no reason to restructure outside of the charity in his heart.

[Koolblue13]

9 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

I can't, for the life of me, figure out why they wouldn't want the rookie to play except for that they plan on him being the starter next season and don't want to damage him.

 

Only issue there is that I'm not convinced this regime makes it to next season. 

I do get the point of seeing what we have in Wentz and knowing absolutely that he's leaving and not the answer, even temporarily, unless he wants to come back on a dog of a deal.

 

I will say, if Wentz gets hurt again after starting, it will be Howell. I don't think they want to bench Heini, but I'd be surprised to see him playing extended football again.

[Zim489]

14 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

I can't, for the life of me, figure out why they wouldn't want the rookie to play except for that they plan on him being the starter next season and don't want to damage him.

 

Only issue there is that I'm not convinced this regime makes it to next season. 

Because they need to “win”

[Skinsinparadise]

16 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

I can't, for the life of me, figure out why they wouldn't want the rookie to play except for that they plan on him being the starter next season and don't want to damage him.

 

Only issue there is that I'm not convinced this regime makes it to next season. 

 

The idea of a coach centric model IMO doesn't mean what some (not you) accused Rivera of is an obsession for the future for the present -- punt on FA this year for future cap concerns.  The problem with that model is the opposite -- the future is now. 

 

The idea of a coach centric model nightmare is perfectly in play though on an issue like this.

 

A.  We got Rivera with extra stakes for Wentz to work out -- since he is the one who stuck his neck out for Wentz and made the deal.

 

B.  If he gets fired anyway if the season goes south why give a rats behind about losing a 2nd round pick?

 

I get why Rivera insisted on control considering if he didn't get it, Dan becomes defacto GM.  But if-when Dan is out of the picture, we don't want IMO a coach centric model because of these type scenarios among other things. 

Edited November 9, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Zim489]

5 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

The problem with that model is the opposite -- the future is now. 

 

The idea of a coach centric model nightmare is perfectly in play though on an issue like this.

 

A.  We got Rivera with extra stakes for Wentz to work out -- since he is the one who stuck his neck out for Wentz and made the deal.

 

B.  If he gets fired anyway if the season goes south why give a rats behind about losing a 2nd round pick?

One last **** up from Dan Snyder that sets the team back even after he’s gone

[Skinsinparadise]

20 hours ago, wit33 said:

 

 

100000000000%

 

 

If you look at us versus the Eagles at QB alone its not hard to see why they are killing it and this team has at best has hovered from being bad to treading water.

 

Just post Kirk alone

 

A.  We got a 3rd round comp piece for Kirk,  basically a 4th since its a late third and you don't get the pick until a season later.  Heck the Eagles can pull off compensation like that for a third string QB -- got a high 2nd for freaking AJ Feeley.  They'd probably have gotten a ransom for Kirk because they know how to the play the compensation game while this team is run by a petty moron. 

 

B.  We trade a 3rd and Fuller for Alex.  Saddle the cap with 4 years of guaranteed money.  yes Alex has been durable but he was 34, banking on that lasting was a gamble.  

 

C.  Waste a first rounder for Haskins -- top half of the first round.  And trade up for Sweat, who they might have taken with the first rounder and it costs them an extra 2nd which the Colts use to take Pittman 

 

D.  Trade a 3rd and 2nd-or third for Wentz and take on a 28 million dollar cap hit.

 

While, the Eagles nail Hurts with their 2nd rounder.  Get a bounty of picks for Wentz from multiple trades.  

 

Eagles just get richer from adding assets while we subtract assets and fail.  

 

Heck it was even worse before that with the Eagles fleecing us for picks for McNabb, fleecing the Cards for picks for Kolb, fleecing Minny for a first for Bradford. 

 

They are playing chess at QB and to say this team has played checkers would be too much of a complement -- we've been playing Candyland at QB --  a total clownshow. 

 

 

 

https://www.nbcsports.com/philadelphia/eagles/eagles-trading-quarterbacks-remarkable-success#:~:text=MARCH 17%2C 2021%3A Carson Wentz,How did he do%3F

Since 1999, the Eagles have traded 12 quarterbacks away.

Those deals brought the Eagles two 1st-round picks, three 2nd-round picks, a 3rd-round pick, two 4th-round picks, four 6th-round picks, a 7th-round pick, Sam Bradford and Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie.

The quarterbacks they unloaded? 

They won 36 total games with the team the Eagles traded them to. That's 36 wins in 85 starts. 

Not one reached the playoffs. Not one made a Pro Bowl. Not one even spent more than two years with the team they were traded to. In fact, seven were only with their next team one year (or less).

You'd think the 31 other NFL teams would realize that acquiring a quarterback from the Eagles isn't going to work. But teams keep doing it. And according to one report, the Colts -- who might have made the worst deal of the bunch -- are actually considering making the Eagles another offer, this time for Gardner Minshew.

Bring 'em on. The Eagles win these trades every single time.

With free agency and the trading period set to open this week, we thought it would be fun to take a detailed look back at the Eagles' track record trading quarterbacks.

Edited November 10, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Est.1974]

The finger of Wentz  swirling down the Heini hole. Sounds gross.

[Professor_Nutter_Butter]

41 minutes ago, Est.1974 said:

The finger of Wentz  swirling down the Heini hole. Sounds gross.

You should be used to this as a Washington fan.

[Warhead36]

Howie Roseman plays 3 dimensional chess and wins. Snyder/Allen/Rivera etc. play tic tac toe and struggle. 

 

 

Anyway my prediction is we go back to Wentz after this Monday and he just barely plays enough for us to lose our 2nd round pick but we still get eliminated from playoff contention early. Because that's just how this franchise operates. 

[wit33]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

If you look at us versus the Eagles at QB alone its not hard to see why they are killing it and this team has at best has hovered from being bad to treading water.

 

Just post Kirk alone

 

A.  We got a 3rd round comp piece for Kirk,  basically a 4th since its a late third and you don't get the pick until a season later.  Heck the Eagles can pull off compensation like that for a third string QB -- got a high 2nd for freaking AJ Feeley.  They'd probably have gotten a ransom for Kirk because they know how to the play the compensation game while this team is run by a petty moron. 

 

B.  We trade a 3rd and Fuller for Alex.  Saddle the cap with 4 years of guaranteed money.  yes Alex has been durable but he was 34, banking on that lasting was a gamble.  

 

C.  Waste a first rounder for Haskins -- top half of the first round.  And trade up for Sweat, who they might have taken with the first rounder and it costs them an extra 2nd which the Colts use to take Pittman 

 

D.  Trade a 3rd and 2nd-or third for Wentz and take on a 28 million dollar cap hit.

 

While, the Eagles nail Hurts with their 2nd rounder.  Get a bounty of picks for Wentz from multiple trades.  

 

Eagles just get richer from adding assets while we subtract assets and fail.  

 

Heck it was even worse before that with the Eagles fleecing us for picks for McNabb, fleecing the Cards for picks for Kolb, fleecing Minny for a first for Bradford. 

 

They are playing chess at QB and to say this team has played checkers would be too much of a complement -- we've been playing Candyland at QB --  a total clownshow. 

 

 

 

https://www.nbcsports.com/philadelphia/eagles/eagles-trading-quarterbacks-remarkable-success#:~:text=MARCH 17%2C 2021%3A Carson Wentz,How did he do%3F

Since 1999, the Eagles have traded 12 quarterbacks away.

Those deals brought the Eagles two 1st-round picks, three 2nd-round picks, a 3rd-round pick, two 4th-round picks, four 6th-round picks, a 7th-round pick, Sam Bradford and Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie.

The quarterbacks they unloaded? 

They won 36 total games with the team the Eagles traded them to. That's 36 wins in 85 starts. 

Not one reached the playoffs. Not one made a Pro Bowl. Not one even spent more than two years with the team they were traded to. In fact, seven were only with their next team one year (or less).

You'd think the 31 other NFL teams would realize that acquiring a quarterback from the Eagles isn't going to work. But teams keep doing it. And according to one report, the Colts -- who might have made the worst deal of the bunch -- are actually considering making the Eagles another offer, this time for Gardner Minshew.

Bring 'em on. The Eagles win these trades every single time.

With free agency and the trading period set to open this week, we thought it would be fun to take a detailed look back at the Eagles' track record trading quarterbacks.

Hard to argue these facts. Eagles have operated ahead of the curve for a long time. It’s also helpful when you win for an extended period of time and your assistants get head coaching jobs and have experience with those QBs. To this point, was a first round pick available from Kyle for Kirk?
 

Not take anything away, Eagles continue to crush it as you’ve been stating for years. 

 

I was good with Alex Smith trade due to many reasons beyond the football field. The culture inside the locker room was horrible, Gruden isn’t a culture changing type coach, but we’ll liked. To pair him with Smith, a culture changing influence and leader trumped his average level of play for the Washington organization.
 

Changing the culture isn’t just nice guy stuff off the field you must have the ability to produce on the field. With Smith you will have a run first identity, dominate time of possession, convert on third down at an above average to good clip, and not turn the ball over. Winning football. Can you win a championship that way, probably not, neither has Rodgers in last 10 years. 
 

Mostly agree with it all. Not really attempting to debate you or anything. 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

6 minutes ago, wit33 said:

Hard to argue these facts. Eagles have operated ahead of the curve for a long time. It’s also helpful when you win for an extended period of time and your assistants get head coaching jobs and have experience with those QBs. To this point, was a first round pick available from Kyle for Kirk?

 

 

We talked about it to death on this thread.  And I even talked to you about this directly so lol I guess my communication skills are failing me apparently.    

 

Yes and more some.  Mike Jones talked about, Jay said they got an offer from SF for a first and change while he was there, he thought if he pushed they could have gotten TWO first round picks from SF but the offer started with SF's first (2nd pick in the draft) and change.

 

[wit33]

8 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

We talked about it to death on this thread.  And I even talked to you about this directly so lol I guess my communication skills are failing me apparently.    

 

Yes and more some.  Mike Jones talked about, Jay said they got an offer from SF for a first and change while he was there, he thought if he pushed they could have gotten TWO first round picks from SF but the offer started with SF's first (2nd pick in the draft) and change.

 

What I heard from Jay when speaking on the topic brought the fact he had no idea what was going on (IMO). Admittedly, I listen with a great deal of bias. You’ve mentioned the Mike Jones stuff, but haven’t heard it myself. Send my way if it’s an easy task. If Mike Jone’s source is Jay, I’m out on that. 
 

Not to back down, because I own my position and argued with you a bit on potential compensation, but I was much more passionate about not over paying the dude/not thinking he was worth it/not working with the organization. 

Edited November 10, 2022 by wit33

[Skinsinparadise]

18 minutes ago, wit33 said:

What I heard from Jay when speaking on the topic brought the fact he had no idea what was going on (IMO). Admittedly, I listen with a great deal of bias. You’ve mentioned the Mike Jones stuff, but haven’t heard it myself. Send my way if it’s an easy task. If Mike Jone’s source is Jay, I’m out on that. 
 

Not to back down, because I own my position and argued with you a bit on potential compensation, but I was much more passionate about not over paying the dude/not thinking he was worth it/not working with the organization. 

 

Your position on Kirk was hard to miss at the time because you were the lone wolf even among the Kirk detractors who thought Bruce played the trade compensation fine and a third comp pick was as good as it would get for him -- and you were very passionate about making that point too, just about any time I talked about reporters like Silvers who said otherwise, everyone else would nod but you'd tell me I am likely very wrong. I'll give that back then it wasn't 100% concrete but it has gotten plenty concrete since.

 

I am not the only one who listened to Jay talk about this which he has multiple times and in detail, and if your takeaway is Jay had no idea what's going on -- lol, cool, i gather it means you are determined to double down on your take. 

 

As for Mike Jones, nope his sources was Kyle himself both at the time when the offer was made and then later on afterwards.   

 

But I really don't care if you don't believe it, as far as I can tell its just you and frankly now it doesn't matter.  You can be cool with the compensation they got for Kirk.  I think along with everyone else I've seen comment on this that they blew it. 

 

But with the power of hindsight, i am super glad they blew it.  Ditto Bruce missing out on a better trade opporunity for Trent.  Well played, Bruce!    😀

Edited November 10, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[woodpecker]

It’s a no-brainer to start the Rookie. Just my opinion, but if he somehow can’t handle it then he is not the guy anyway. Obviously he’s probably not going to be the answer, but why not find out for sure? And for those who want to try to win now, the one in 1 million long shot that he turns out to be the next Brady is actually the only realistic chance for this years team to win anyway. Wentz and Heiney are roads to nowhere but mediocrity.

[Skinsinparadise]